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 Post subject: Adopt an OSMO?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:01 pm 
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A friend of mine recently poasted about a company that makes open source video software:

Quote:
Miro is facing a very serious budget challenge this year but we want to use this moment to permanently turn our funding model on its head.

I want to ask you to support a little piece of Miro by adopting a line of our open-source code. This has never been done before! The 'source code' is what makes Miro run, there are about 46,258 lines of it...


Checking out the "Adoption Center", for $4/month you even get a cute little pet, named after the code.

I'm thinking this could be a very nifty way to support OSMO, by adopting bits of it. Because Uru is so visual, it could even be like the 'adopt a highway' programs, with a simple, tasteful sign saying who's adopted the Age, or something.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Miro web site wrote:
Hello there! It looks like you are visiting from Europe

Did you know that there are more Miro users in Europe than in the United States, but more than 99% of our financial support comes from American donations and philanthropies?

Europe loves open-source, right? Help us make something great!


Interesting.

Zap


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 Post subject: Re: Adopt an OSMO?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Eleri wrote:
A friend of mine recently poasted about a company that makes open source video software:

Quote:
Miro is facing a very serious budget challenge this year but we want to use this moment to permanently turn our funding model on its head.

I want to ask you to support a little piece of Miro by adopting a line of our open-source code. This has never been done before! The 'source code' is what makes Miro run, there are about 46,258 lines of it...


Checking out the "Adoption Center", for $4/month you even get a cute little pet, named after the code.

I'm thinking this could be a very nifty way to support OSMO, by adopting bits of it. Because Uru is so visual, it could even be like the 'adopt a highway' programs, with a simple, tasteful sign saying who's adopted the Age, or something.


Instead of a sign, maybe a plant or structure, (giving the adoptive "parent" the choice) with a D'ni flare and the name could be like the avatar names. . . . . only showing up with the mouse over then there would not be a bunch of signs cluttering the city or age. . . . I like the idea! :lol: I'd be adopting like mad. . . just like Angelina and Madona ;)


Last edited by Mystdee on Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Ooh, I'd definitely be on board for that :)

Quote:
Instead of a sign, maybe a plant or structure, (giving the adoptive "parent" the choice) with a D'ni flare and the name could be like the avatar names. . . . . only showing up with the mouse over then there would not be a bunch of signs cluttering the city or age. . . . I like the idea! I'd be adopting like mad. . . just like Angelina and Madonna

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:42 am 
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Very cool idea.

The trick is placing those names in some form that's accessible to players of the game but doesn't interfere with gameplay or get distracting.

Another (perhaps less useful) option I'll throw out there: having names displayed as text during the linking screen between ages.

You're linking to Eder Gira and there's some small text on the top black area of the screen.

Funding provided for open-sourcing of Eder Gira by:
Name, name, NAME, NaMe, name, name, name, name, naame, name, bob O'Goobo, another name, pseudonym, and NAME!!!LOL!!!.

You know how Cyan gets funding from publishers to work on projects. Well, we could (collectively) be the publisher this way, cover the entire cost of open-sourcing Uru as a group. Cyan could take the total (estimated) cost of the open-sourcing project and divide it into a thousand bits - represented by pieces of Uru, or not, but we'd buy these bits of the project's cost.

We'd be a publisher, sort of, paying Cyan to do a specific task (release Uru as an open-source game) - we wouldn't be donating money, we'd be paying for completion of a project we want to see completed.

If that succeeds, we could even push the idea further and pay Cyan for creation of new content and new projects, as a group. Projects, of course, that are inexpensive enough that we might actually be able to pay for.

A rerendered higher-resolution Riven, for instance, with panoramas, and which works on current operating systems. How many of us want that? And if Cyan has the 3d files around still, it could probably be done relatively inexpensively. Under a million dollars, maybe. We could even be investors in said project, with hope of recouping some of the money we paid to Cyan - we might each be entitled to some (tiny) fraction of the sales income the game makes, based on how much of it we funded. (Cyan would keep a lot of the income too, obviously)

The final product would be sold from an official Cyan website, I guess, not distributed in stores.

Again, how much did "Myst" cost? $600,000 (!) - So maybe we can invest in the creation of a Sam-and-Max-style mini-Myst game. You know, 3 small ages, nice quality, fairly easy puzzles, good storyline, and Cyan sells it as a casual game for $8.99.

We could afford that as a group. Not a giant "Myst IV", but something like the original "Myst" in scope? Or an age like Eder Delin for Uru? Something. And we'd, as a group, be the investors/publishers of the project.

This would be a cooperative business venture kind of thing, funded by a large collection of people each paying or investing small amounts in order to create a desired project that all of them want to see made.

Starting with open-source Uru and possibly continuing with other small Cyan projects after that.

It's a thought. I may be taking this too far, of course, but it's not all that crazy to imagine that we could do this.

No clue how the legal side of this would work, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Good points you guys are coming up with. I'm thinking if they did this, the /per-month thing might just work out. I know there would be people willing to pay a lot of money (with the money-per-thing idea, people paying for a TON of things to invest in). For the text, I'm thinking to keep with the In-Cavern feel: Have a pedestal near the link-in point, with a ledger on top. That ledger will have the "investors" names on it, and what they invested in "restoring". That way, clutter never happens, and they can make it dynamic so that it can update itself, therefore never having to constantly update things. (Plaques by each thing would also be cool, but to properly do it would be a heck of a lot more work).
And if someone decides to ponly fund for a little while, have a datestamp, i.e.:
"Phalkon13 - Tokotah Rooftop: 06/2009 - 09/2009"

Or... an Imager somewhere in each age with the information. That would also keep the IC vibe. :)

Just my two cents.....

-Phalkon13-

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:34 am 
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So - you'd have an organization responsible for collecting money and doing the adoption thing? Who would the money go to - people making changes to the open source code?

Oh - OK, sorry, went back - you want people to adopt parts of an age - the part that is not open source, I guess. The question still remains - what organization would be responsible for collecting money and doing the adoption thing? Who would the money go to? Who makes the changes to Cyan's ages to allow us to see the people who donated, within the age? I thought we could not make changes to Cyan's ages. How will it work if there are multiple instances of Uru, like we know there will be?

Are you proposing that Cyan be involved in a new business model, to charge for the part of Uru that we can't change - the part that isn't open source? I am, and I think understandably, a little confused here. I thought Cyan was out of the picture, with regards to Uru. Cyan releases the code, and Cyan provide a place for people running game servers to grab the ages, and that's it. Is there something I'm not seeing here?

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:01 pm 
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interesting concept. let's see .... i adopt a line , or several lines of code, for the game. pay a few dollars a month/year/whatever. Uru gets released as open source sooner because Cyan has independent funding for the game. seems like a good idea, at least on the surface.

I completely disagree with changes to the ages to include "credits" or recognition of "investors". I believe it twists the very thing that people are investing in. I would love to adopt a line ,or more, of code in order to see all of those lines of code added up. Equating to me being able to reenter the Cavern and be with my friends again. But to add lines of code to the Ages ,or to D'ni, in order to give advertisement of who adopted the code is to step backwards. And to add some thing non-native to the game takes more time and support in order to return to the Cavern.

figure how many lines of code there are in an age. add to this all of the lines of code for the cavern. add all of the lines of code for functionality ie; linking, the KI, Relto pages, ect. The sum of these would be what i would invest in to see their return/release.

think of how many lines of code it would take to add a "pedestal" with investors names, make it dynamic, or make it update on some regular basis. Or how many additional lines to add "mouse-over" details within an Age that would reveal an adopters name for each line of code in the Age. The sum of any of these would constitute what I would not be willing to "Adopt".

this Adoption idea is very interesting and probably viable if done properly. Again, showing the sheer creativity of this community and undying willingness to do anything to see a return of the Cavern.

I for one would love to see something like this work. But I am interested in a Return/Release of Uru without the clutter of recognition for those who helped it happen.

If there would really be a need to have recognition for adopters, simply put a web address/link in the opening credits pointing to a website that would list the names of those who opt to have their names listed there.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:50 pm 
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So - to be clear - you want to pay Cyan to release the open source code, is that right? You are proposing a change to how Cyan runs their business - correct?

I think you want Cyan to develop an infrastructure for a payment plan, including international billing. You want them to do this because you are proposing that Cyan develop and manage a new product. The "product" would be recognition for either a piece of the ages ("adopt a linking station", perhaps), or a line of open source code.

Perhaps you want this to be a fan project. Perhaps you are proposing that we pay money to someone outside of Cyan, a group of fans, with the promise that they will give the money to Cyan.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:36 pm 
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This made very little sense to me as well. :?:


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:04 pm 
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I never said to pay Cyan to release source. But, my thinking was that to help them maintain servers, maybe give them a reason for any new content (because they didn't say they would release it and be done with it, they said release and see what happens, and if at some point they can pick up ans keep adding, then all the better).

It costs money to host a server, even if it's an authentication server for all the other servers. This isn't a "Hey, to do anything you HAVE to pay", this is more of a "If you want to invest in us, awesome and thank you, if not you still can do everything you did before, payees just get their name on the list of people who helped with funding us, and maybe more down the road..."

Free online games do this all the time, look at FlyForFree (FLYFF), or Dungeon Runners. They have the games completely free, but to get the extra cool swag, you pay either a subscription, or pay a flat fee to get in-game money. Now, we don't have a currency set up in Uru, but a list in the age of people who invested in them. Heck, They have the list of beta-testers in the credits for the original Uru (which I didn't realize my name never got added from the original 2002 beta test until it was far too late to do anything about :cry: ). It's just an idea, but I think that idea is something worth looking into for them. Because one financial backer with a lot of money is nice, but a lot of smaller investors seems to be a lot more stable. If one backs out, you still have X amount to help.

(EDIT) The book/pedestal could be set up for a DRC investors thing, thus keeping fully IC.


Just my two more cents (4 now? but who's keeping tabs lol)

-Phalkon13-

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Ok by me - I was just trying to figure it out. Sometimes I can't tell if someone is recommending something as a fan effort, or a change to how Cyan runs their business.

In this case, this is a proposal on how Cyan runs their business. You are proposing that Cyan invest time and resources for a new product they will sell. The idea is that Cyan definies a "product" (adopt a part of an age, adopt a line of code), markets it, and sells it on their site. The product is a not a game item, unlike the other FTP games that charge for in-game items. The product is recognition for contributing to (I think) maintaining the servers to download the age data and the open source code. That's interesting.

So - question - for the people who plan to run game servers, or the people who plan to modify code. What about doing the same thing for people (fans) running the game servers and modifying the code? Does this make sense to you - does it seem like a good idea? It's the same principle. For the people running the game servers, you could also say that this keeps the game running, as well as giving the contributors name recognition.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:20 pm 
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One thing to decide would be if this adopting should pay for the server too or only for making the game open source and, if possible, later for official ages and storyline.

In my opinion running the server and the code support better should be two different things. Alone to solve things like who gets the money with different servers. So one thing the servers paid by special accounts, with more access to things like more ages or items like clothes, paid accounts only or run by donations. The people running the server could decide how they hope to fund the server and get the money of that. Then the adopt the code thing with the money going directly to Cyan. First helping to get OSMO ready and later, if Cyan can do it, for more official content.

Maybe slightly related, the MMOG WWII online / Battleground Europe launched a builders program some years ago to help funding further development. There they have:
Gold level 1000$, Silver level 500$, Bronce level 199$
- all time (gold), 5 year (silver) or 1 year game subscription
- a name plaque on the builders memorial bridge in Dinant (one of the cities ingame; gold and silver)
- a name plaque on a memorial statue in a city of choice (gold)
- special icons or markings on forum and ingame name and a mention on a special builders website (all levels)


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Interesting Idea Quanto, but again I think the "community" will quickly put an end to the idea some way or another.

Money to Cyan -> Works
Money to Fans in any form -> Fails

There are too many elitists in this community who feel the need to stress that if they are not in charge or receiving benefits from an idea, then no one else should be either.

People trying to help out are always unhinged by these elitists, who do not understand that its time for change.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:13 am 
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Maybe, maybe not. But no fighting please. As long as there is no 'no charge using this code'-rule applied to the Open Source license it could happen anyway. But I think most here wouldn't want lots of split servers.

Actually I understand the ones opposing the idea of money to the fans, wouldn't want to profit on it myself, it feeels wrong. There could be a no profit policy for server networks. If the incoming funds more than cover the running costs of the servers the excess money would be donated to Cyan, using the adoption system. The only ones really have to live on money from any Myst game would be the guys at Cyan after all, and if they can the better for us, too.

Server network. Several servers forming up a network hosting one connected world. Here is a flaw of the idea of game account fees or donations going the the server hosts because it means no single server host but many (hopefully). Who would get the money? Possibly the server for entering the world. But still.


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