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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:34 pm 
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GT was the distributor, right?

Edit: Now I see the mention of a way to install URU-live from this web site. I was unaware of such a direct installer not using the GT distro channels, sorry!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Quote:
6.Redistributions of any form whatsoever must retain the following acknowledgment:
"This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the OpenSSL Toolkit (http://www.openssl.org/)"


Cyan’s "Redistribution" was of an "any form whatsoever" nature, the full agreement was not required.

Cyan more than likely was only using various sections of the code to perform authentication, quite possibly against another SSL service that they were using.

So in terms of the client, cyan would have been only using bits of OpenSSL code, which only requires the above acknowledgment.

Cyan was not providing us with a whole binary of OpenSSL as a Linux distribution package may do.

You can't make judgement on what they were using in the MOUL server as it’s never been distributed, so acknowledgment cannot be given to a closed non-distributed piece of software.

Check the credits in MOUL if you have a copy, you should see the acknowledgment line there.

So nothing to see here, move along ...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:35 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Nothing about having rewritten anything so far. The decision to pull or rewrite appears to not have been made, further supported by RAWA's later update.

All it takes is a little work to find the sources (okay, minor pun) and a little care to not extend too far past what has actually been said by authoritative sources (there's that word again).

Paradox makes a good point about plug-ins and code not being the same thing, but this is obscuring things a bit too much for my tastes. I'm an occam's razor guy and it so far hasn't led to any issues. I think you're missing a source somewhere as I distinctly remember either Chogon or RAWA mentioning that parts needed to be pulled or re-written because they were created by a source which had not licensed them to Cyan for free redistribution. Now, true, I can't remember if that quote referred to an individual or a company. I wouldn't be surprised if the post had been lost in one of the topic-splitting moderations going on here.

Secondly, the decision seems to have already been made since RAWA was going to pass along information that we "are ok with having things that cannot be released ripped out and handed off rather than waiting for them to be rewritten". This suggests to me that the decision was at least partially made for re-writing the code. If both sides were in agreement, there would be little reason for RAWA to pass along that information, let alone make a point of saying so to that fanbase.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
Now, true, I can't remember if that quote referred to an individual or a company. I wouldn't be surprised if the post had been lost in one of the topic-splitting moderations going on here.


Sure, blaming the mods is the easiest way. :wink:

Whilyam wrote:
I think the source of the confusion needs to be sorted out before accusations get thrown around.


Agree!

[spoiler=Hint to the source]

Nalates wrote:
In the Mysterium video Rand talks about the hold up. (last 30 min +/-) Cyan used plugins in the development software and in the runtime game. Those have to be removed as they are not Cyan made but licensed from 3rd parties.

I suspect that some just made some tasks faster during development. Others are likely code that gets embedded in the game. Knowing what those plugins do, why and how to work around them likely needs some explanation. Apparently there is one person that knows how to do that. I think it kinda explains the 'something else' too. However he did seem open to having others help with the work, thus Whilyam's posts for volunteer coders to help.

I found it interesting that Rand still would like Cyan to run the servers. But, he seemed clear that is dependent on circumstances.

post
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=The source]
Quote:
Rand: We ah, we, lets see here, We're rolling down the, ah, I'll make a story out of this...we'rechugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do, and we're hoping for things to do because we've laid off people we don't have any income and we need kind of money and then this other deal came in where people said well hey, we'd kind of like you to use your engine and do this stuff for us, and suddenly Mark DeForest who was the engineer of the Open Source Train, choo choo -[makes pulling whistle cord motion], suddenly got involved in other things and we have our plans laid of what we need to do, and some of it is just technical, we'll pull certain things out that are, that we’ve licensed that we can't just let the public use and we have to, we have plug ins that we have to be careful with letting out, and we’ve got a plan about how to do it but suddenly Mark DeForest was engaged in money-bringing-in-work so that took priority, so we still have no other plans other than to do Open Source and like to move it out there, this time we are thinking we want to do
something a little different... boy its been a while since we did all of this, ..but it’s… we’d like to run the server, or run servers, and, but still have Open Source where people are able to build stuff and adjust stuff but We'd be more the keeper of it. mm. and see where that goes, cause it seemed like that might be a cool way to do it that way, we'd keep things going but its still passing thru a filter, m, but anyway that’s the plans, and as soon as really we run out of work we will get back on that.


The text you can find here: text transcript of the Rand Q and A and the Panel Discussion at the 2009 Mysterium Town Hall at Cyan HQ
[/spoiler]

I hope this ends the confusion.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:58 pm 
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veralun wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
Now, true, I can't remember if that quote referred to an individual or a company. I wouldn't be surprised if the post had been lost in one of the topic-splitting moderations going on here.


Sure, blaming the mods is the easiest way. :wink:


I wonder why we blame the mods.... Posts just don't vanish on their own. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:05 pm 
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Just because Rand refers to them as "plugins" does not make them so ;)

However, I can understand why Chogon or other programmers would have used that term when explaining the situation to a non-programmer. The third-party code does "plug in" to the existing code, but it's not at all like a compiled plugin for something like Firefox.

The correct term for code that Plasma uses which Cyan did not write and does not have a license to release as open-source is "3rd-party code/libraries". :P


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:13 am 
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Paradox wrote:
Just because Rand refers to them as "plugins" does not make them so ;)

However, I can understand why Chogon or other programmers would have used that term when explaining the situation to a non-programmer. The third-party code does "plug in" to the existing code, but it's not at all like a compiled plugin for something like Firefox.

The correct term for code that Plasma uses which Cyan did not write and does not have a license to release as open-source is "3rd-party code/libraries". :P


Shared Library is a more common term, however in reality a "plug-in" could also be a framework as well ...

To be honest I would agree more that it depends on what angle/level your looking at... On an IDE level its a plugin, on a code level, a framework, on a build level a shared library ...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:31 pm 
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I want to thank those who took the time to post in this thread to what they know of the topic, I so insensitively inquired about. It has provided for me and I hope others with more insights into the current politics of status and the technical hurdles and problems involved for Open Source Uru becoming a reality.
Those who know me at all, know I mean well and try to keep up with everything related to Uru and it becoming Open Source. I admit I’m far from being as well informed, polished or as well educated and articulate as others who post, but I do my best to express what I know and want to know and like. Like many explorers, my time and interest in tracking the latest Uru news and status for a release has waned from the discouragement of passing time. I took what I could recall, however skewed, to get some clarification from other explorers to what they knew. I’m flattered that Nalates and JWPlatt even bother to post at all at me. For what it is worth, I respect them both and more often than not, I agree with their points of view. I’m just glad my mischaracterization question brought forth some useful information others might appreciate to read and know about. I know I did.

JWPlatt had Wrote:
Quote:
Neither assumption is supported by the only messages from Cyan upon which the assumptions are based:


JW, I'm not sure what you meant by the above. Assumptions must have support requirements limited to Cyan Message statements? or you're just pointing out the lack of it in those particular thread posts? It appears to me that you and Nalates both feel posting explorers should post with more care and an eye to defending and backing up whatever they post Nar it a question or a statement, some very high standards set for those explorers less knowledgeable and capable as yourselves. It does have the benefit of driving away and limiting explorers from posting things that can mislead and cloud topics.
Admittedly, my own assumptions and mischaracterizations posted in threads are often derived from multiple Forum Source Thread Posts I read through. I admit that leaves it to me to decipher through it all as to what is relevant and true and yes I have evidently failed to properly document and keep track of the data to answer how I come up with things I post. My only defense is that I take the position and assume from experience that others within the forum threads (Nalates, JWPlatt, etc…) will and do often step up to confirmation, denounce, clarify and straighten out the matters, thus my lack of effort to and ability to back-tract my sources of reference when questioned about how I came to pose a what I'm told is a “mischaracterization”. I’m foolishly guilty of making assumptions based upon my own understanding and interpretations of information on a wide range of forum thread posts across an equally wide range of related topics. Guess my only saving grace then is that I so seldom post.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Continuation on above post in this topic.


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