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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:02 pm 
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What are you hope's and fears. When do you think its gonna happen why do you think its been delayed yet again. Will Cyan surprise us all with something unexpected or will they change the play tab a second time

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:38 pm 
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May ,2011 to be back in the Cavern .

Delays are Cyan. Irony and misfortune is their destiny.

the play button will change only when Open Source code is released or due to be released. Mainly because there has not been anyone assigned to updating the website since ....ever. Updates to this website are usually an after thought.

when the "play" button does change, it will again go dark before it is ever functional..if ever. My crystal snowball is a bit translucent, but as i see this feature ...it looks like a link to more links that will eventually be populated by mirror sites that serve the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:27 am 
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I hope to hear some response on the Rip & Release ideas in January or February (2010). :)

I don't expect to hear anything on licenses until late Spring or Summer... :(

I believe with in a month of the licenses being released we will see servers up. May be faster. I just expect it to take some time to submit a signed agreement and have it accepted. Some time after that the Play Button will change. 8)

I expect some type of restrictions on the Cyan ages' content to try to restrict its use to MOUL type servers. I think that is likely to cause problems, but we'll see. :roll:

With the upgrades coming to the SL/OS grids and the dropping costs of sim hosting, we will see more Myst-Uru style builds appearing on the grids. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:35 am 
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I hope you're right Nalates!

Getting the licensing agreement from Cyan is the KEY! Everything else after it can then fall into place.

Nalates Wrote:

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I expect some type of restrictions on the Cyan ages' content to try to restrict its use to MOUL type servers. I think that is likely to cause problems, but we'll see.


Could you elaberate on this more? MOUL type Servers as opposed to what other type Servers? Fan run Servers? Or Cyan run Servers?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:14 am 
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Cyan wants to protect their IP. I think that is the most important consideration in their thinking. It keeps their option to return at some future date open.

When MOUL closed Cyan had working server software. I call that a MOUL server. There are Until Uru and alcugs servers too. In the future there will be a MOOU or Open Source Uru server created by fans.

We can only speculate on how Cyan will try to control use of their content. In one of the FCAL discussions and a Chogon post there is mention of limiting use of Cyan IP content to use with Plasma. I think that creates an interesting set of problems if the license is worded that way.

To protect their story and have some overall control of the game Cyan may provide server operators a license to use Cyan content with specific set of restrictions. That gives them a means of keeping adult content and other objectionable material out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:56 pm 
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First, thanx for responding

I believe most explorers understand Cyan's desire to protect IP (Intellectual Property) with an eye on future profits.
Doubtful anyone would fault them for it.

If I understood your post right, Cyan may or may not provide us with all the MO:UL - IP content.
How much or little would greatly impact FCAL (Fan Created Art Licence) content efforts, given explorers wanting and expecting to return to their much loved familiar Ages.

Nalates, in reading through the forum threads and some research of member ship posts, I know you are among those most active and well informed. IN READING your posts, I know you to have a good broad knowledge base, enough to qualify as an authority or a reliable source.

What remains fuzzy I think for most explorers or at least myself, is the long endless hold up and seeming reluctance from Cyan to do the Licensing Agreement necessary for Open Source Uru (OSU) or MORE (Myst Online Restoration Experiment) or what venue they are willing to do done to get the game back up again.

There appears to be some Cyan indecision or flipping back and forth between doing OSU & MORE.
OSU seems more geared to a release into the hands of explorer run servers and MORE seems about a Cyan run server release. Do I have any of this right?

YET! Either one seems not to matter given the Cyan announcement to no funds (Spare Cycles) and might we assume that applies also to no funding for a Licensing Agreement?

Please feel free to elaborate or speculate to any educated guesses or what you know of the hurdles to Cyan Licensing Open Source or MORE?

Cyan Licensing seems to be the on-going million dollar mystery question


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Jahmen wrote:
There appears to be some Cyan indecision or flipping back and forth between doing OSU & MORE.

That appears only to be the result of the unfortunate treatment of MORE as synonymous with Open Uru (OSU is a pretty good acronym for it). The confusion is compounded not only by the fans, but now also by Rand in his letter posted by RAWA. I think MORE is just easier to say when no one, including Cyan, can decide on what to call the darned thing. So it's my firm belief that intentions remain open source whether it is improperly called MORE or more accurately Open Uru, OSU or any of the others.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:41 pm 
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My reading of things is pretty much as JWPlatt says. Open Source is still what's on the cards (sometime) and the earlier proposal for the Cyan run MORE is now shelved.

What is a little confusing though, is that towards the end of the RAWA letter that JWPlatt refers to is a comment about "getting a server up and running as soon as possible": That could be one of (at least) two things: Either it's the data server that Cyan indicated they'd host, when they first announced the Open Source plan or it's some kind of "testbed" server for checking the code that's had to be modified. The former doesn't make too much sense when we don't have anything to use the data with, so my bet would be on the latter. Or something else entirely - could be another mis-use of terms, like the repeated references to MORE :? .

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:28 pm 
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I think like JWP and Mac on the MO:RE and OSU …flip flops… They aren’t flips flops as much as they are a poor choice of words.

The use of the labels they choose to use is confusing. Then reading the resulting confused posts here makes it even more confusing. I can see how people could decide it is a change of direction.

While I read lots there are a number of people that know more of the history and details than I do. I hope I read what Cyan says objectively but I know I have my biases. I would like to use Cyan content in OS grid worlds and think that will be technically possible this year. I respect Cyan’s rights enough that I won’t do that without permission/licenses and they may exclude that use. Or they may leave a loophole I can use.

Cyan only has so much money and time. MQO is probably using up most of their time to make money. While they may want to clean up the code and release it, many of us are pushing for Rip & Release. So, we are fuzzy on; why not now. May be the source code is an embarrassing disaster of scrambled code. May be the proprietary stuff is so interwoven it is a major deal to extract it. We don’t know. All we can do is speculate on why it has not been released.

Rip & Release would still require a license or licenses. Getting those written would still cost attorney’s fees. If I were Rand I would want to be certain what I was putting into the open source domain and be assured that the Uru story is protected. So, getting that done professionally might be a funding hold up or a time availability issue.

So, with the confusion in language, some are speculating on whether it will be open source or something else as well as when. I believe like JWP, Mac and others that it will no doubt be open source, but I can see why some may think it is going back to a Cyan run MO:RE. For me, when is where I see the question mark.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:53 am 
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I am a die hard fan and i really wanna know when is d'ni expected to open again??

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:55 am 
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JWPlatt Wrote:
Quote:
That appears only to be the result of the unfortunate treatment of MORE as synonymous with Open Uru (OSU is a pretty good acronym for it). The confusion is compounded not only by the fans, but now also by Rand in his letter posted by RAWA. I think MORE is just easier to say when no one, including Cyan, can decide on what to call the darned thing. So it's my firm belief that intentions remain open source whether it is improperly called MORE or more accurately Open Uru, OSU or any of the others.


I believe I see the confusion now, at least for me. It was the Cyan announcement about wanting to run a Server that had me auto link that back with a MORE (Myst Online Restoration Experiment) Cyan run Game. Wether Cyan runs a Server or it is done by fan run Servers or both, it doesn’t change the fact that Uru is to be Open Source Licensed Game at some point, if ever.
Have I got it now? Close?

Nalates Wrote:

Quote:
While I read lots there are a number of people that know more of the history and details than I do. I hope I read what Cyan says objectively but I know I have my biases. I would like to use Cyan content in OS grid worlds and think that will be technically possible this year. I respect Cyan’s rights enough that I won’t do that without permission/licenses and they may exclude that use. Or they may leave a loophole I can use.


I’m some what excited at the prospect of being able to use Cyan content in OS grid worlds because I believe it could really help to encourage the creation and add speed to Age developing process.
If I get the technical of what you are saying, it allows simpler none Blender method for creating ages?

Nalates Wrote:
Quote:
Rip & Release would still require a license or licenses. Getting those written would still cost attorney’s fees. If I were Rand I would want to be certain what I was putting into the open source domain and be assured that the Uru story is protected. So, getting that done professionally might be a funding hold up or a time availability issue.


My guess is it’s more about Rand taking the time to deal with deciding on the how to control it, implement it and what game content to release, not that the legal costs to get such licensing done would be cheap. :shock: These are tough times now. Spending any sums of money on something that offers little chance of return or even recover what ya put out is no light matter. I also got the sense Rand has strong emotional attachments to Uru and releasing it to Open Source is tough, I know it would be for me. Maybe Rand’s biggest fear might be it failing in Open Source and so is looking and waiting for the best possible set of circumstances for a more assured successful release. The decisions for the licensing would have to be a tough gig to do. Everything comes down to the licensing and getting that done.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Quote:
I’m some what excited at the prospect of being able to use Cyan content in OS grid worlds because I believe it could really help to encourage the creation and add speed to Age developing process.
If I get the technical of what you are saying, it allows simpler none Blender method for creating ages?

No… What I am talking about is the change in the OS grids to allow use of free form meshes that are built in Blender, Maya, or 3DMax. While SL/OS grids have Blender made sculpties they are very constrained meshes and awkward to work with. This means a mesh like the stalagmite in the Ae’gura Plaza can only be approximated in the OS grids using sculpties. With the change the actual mesh and texture from MOUL could be used.

In SL there have been and are replicas of parts of Uru. Those are all built with existing OS grid tools. For a time there was a Riven pod village. Eder D’Uru had an excellent replica of the Great Stair. Eder Gira has several excellent replicas. Any of those SL builds could be duplicated on the OSGrid and related sims. None of these builds requires use of Blender models. The builders used the simpler build tools in SL.

The change that is coming is the addition of free form meshes as another object we can work with. The change allows the current SL/OS grid builders and the Plasma/Blender style builders to work together in the OS grids. In the OS grids with special modifications we can make combined builds now. This allows current Plasma/Blender and SL builders the possibility to unite and work in low cost servers/shards/regions.

The Blender, Maya, and 3DMax builders could build high end duplicates for Blue Mars where the hype is we could have 1,000 avatars in world without avatar lag. This would provide a new high graphics environment with high performance support for existing ages and new fan created content, all at Cyan level quality… or better. The OS grids are behind Blue Mars but with the exception of concurrent avatars and available space (acres of land) they are nearly equal. Graphics quality should become equal or near equal this year. The disadvantage in BM is SL style builders can’t build there. So, for the Uru community the OS advantage is the ability to mix styles of building.

If Cyan writes a license that allows the content to be used in flexible ways, then; rather than build approximated replicas one could have duplicates on the OS grid. Also, the replicas would move out of their questionable legal status. There is some information and hints in various Cyan or Cyan employee statements that suggests Cyan may try to restrict such use. Rand has talked about the chaos in SL (I think that applies to the OS grid worlds too) and wanting to avoid that level of chaos in Uru.

I think OS grid builds could be a promotion of Uru leading more people to any future Cyan attempt to reopen a profitable follow on to Uru. Cyan has admitted they made lots of poor marketing decisions and as best I can tell never used viral marketing or made heavy reliance on word of mouth. So, I’m not overly optimistic flexible licensing is coming, which leaves Myst-style and fan created content for the OS grid.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:14 pm 
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My guess for a release date is...
DECEMBER 22, 2012.
:?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:53 pm 
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:lol: No pessimism there... :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:33 am 
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KT wrote:
My guess for a release date is...
DECEMBER 22, 2012.
:?


I bet they'll have the announcement and release planned for December 23rd, 2012 :P


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