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 Post subject: Preditions and OS grids?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:11 am 
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Prediction Hummmm, isn’t that like uh . . . guessing? Or more like making a semi-educated guess based upon past known data and current events?
My guess would be no time soon, if ever, until Cyan announced doing the licensing agreement. At which point I believe predicting a date for an Open Source Uru Online game to start would be more doable.

Nalates, let me see if I can get up to speed on this. I'm not that technically knowledgeable so bare with me a lot.
Open Source grids = OS grids being the working grids used for creating or rendering graphics within programs like Blender, Maya, or 3DMax?
Your post speaks to the differences between free form meshes used in Cyan created textures and content for Uru quality graphics and the SL (Second Life) used Blender/ scuplties that makes their graphics a more boxy and a lesser quality look.
Am I close here?

Quote:
“In the OS grids with special modifications we can make combined builds now.”

It all sounds great, but what I’m not clear about. The referenced unnamed/ unidentified/ unspecific modifications of coming changes part that will allow current Second Life/OS grid builders and the Plasma/Blender style builders (Uru content quality) to work together in the OS grids and therefore making it possible for them to combine their work. If I’m understanding you, you’re saying that SL built content and possibly sims, could be used by bringing em into the Plasma/Blender style builders of OS grid environment to then improve em by incorporating em into a single work.
Have I got this right? And so for the Uru Community they have a one-way advantage to use and bring SL build content into their own creations.
You mentioned that all this could possibly become cheap to do in the near future and so maybe we should take this into consideration for making our predictions with? OK OK I maybe streching it. :roll:

P.S. BlueMax I'm not so up on. But it sounds good for a game environment start of 1000 explorers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Location: On the fault line between then and now
I was lounging atop the replica grassy knoll in my back yard, idly flipping through a stack of crop circle photos, when movement on the horizon caught my eye. A pair of black helicopters scudded just above the barren treetops, eerily quiet, stealthily executing some plausibly deniable classified mission. "They're always up to something big when when They're silent" I mused.

That's when the epiphany hit, as clear as the Face on Mars, and as bright as the reflections of stadium lights on the visors of the chinese "astronauts." A conspiracy of ravens erupted from a nearby tree, startled by the tremendous clanking of gears in my mind!

CYAN is always quiet when they are working on something big! And since recent communication about MORE and MOOS has been a veritable tsunami of silence, obviously we will be getting a HUGE announcement ANY MOMENT NOW!

So keep the faith, and remember: If you propagate negative emotions, the Reptilians have already won!

Y'all believe me, right? Right?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:46 pm 
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nonlinear, thanx for the post. I needed a good laugh and I think we all need the encouragement.
I loved your style of wit and writing.
For myself, I flip-flop back and forth getting down, frustrated and angry about the Cyan silence and waiting. Other times I’m more hopeful and positive , because I know I will rejoin and be a part of Uru on what ever comes my way, as I think most would.
Other posts, some kinder than others, no names, point to the reality that any explorer can divest themselves at any time from wanting and waiting for Uru to return. And others take the high road to keep the faith and encourage us like nonlinear and to me they mirror the real heart and soul of the Uru community. Tough, loyal and patient to insanity!

We, I post, read posts and we all keep communicating even in disagreement, while we all agree to the one thing,
we all want our Uru back!

Please Sir Cyan, I want some more.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:53 pm 
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I need to answer your separate questions in a combined way… and with some background to make it understandable…

The purpose of sculpties in SL was to allow more organic shapes in SL. The primitive (or prims) building blocks of SL tend to be easily rendered geometric shapes; cube, sphere, torus, and etc. The use of prims in SL building tends to make it blocky. There are no prims in MOUL age building.

Sculpties are render-efficient meshes. They allow one to sculpt organic shapes. For instance the fluffy collar of a sweater or rolled up cuffs. Sculpties are meshes with added complexity of SL that is not used in MOUL ages.

To get render efficiency the SL programmers created a mesh that used the image import system they already had to enforce mesh size and efficiency limits. Blender generates a mesh where one can move any point in the mesh and have as many points (vertices) as one wants, freeform. SL makes one convert that mesh into a type of displacement map to impose limits and restrictions. Those added restrictions and complexities frustrate MOUL builders and separates Uru builders into two groups. I see most of that blockage going away with the addition of freeform meshes to SL/OS worlds.

The sculpty complexity is something MOUL builders can do now… it’s somewhat like a 25+ year old coming home from college and having parents try to impose the same rules used when you were 10. It just doesn’t work for experienced 3D modelers. It is the removal of those restrictions that will allow both Blender (outside of world) and prim (in-world) builders to work together. It will give the SL/OS (Hypergrid) builders the best of both worlds.

OSGrid is a specific set of SL like virtual worlds based on the SL open source software. One might think of it as a shard. OS grid or Hypergrid refers to the larger group of SL like or near compatible virtual worlds. One might think of that as referring to all the related shards.

OS grids is highly ambiguous as it tends to mean different things in different contexts. Your understanding it as Open Source Grids is very workable. Most of the Open Source/Simulator Grid is based on the open source version of the SL server side software. The primary code branch is Open Simulator.

IBM and others see the entire Internet moving to 3D. To make the virtual worlds more useable to the masses there is the need to be able to move your avatar from world to world. My avatar appearance in the Devokan in SL is currently very different than its appearance in the Devokan in OSGrid. That is a problem. The idea is to allow an avatar to move from world to world and maintain appearance. Games able to work within that model will have an easier time getting players. The Hypergrid is headed that direction. Plasma has not headed that direction as best I can tell.

Cheap servers… servers get cheap when there are lots of people wanting something similar and there is competition. We are seeing that now with severs for those joining the Hypergrid. That is why Devokan is moving from SL to the Hypergrid… $30/month verses $300/mo. I don’t see the same thing happening for Plasma game servers.

All this is great for Myst STYLE builds on the Hypergrid. However, until we see the licenses we won’t know if helps Uru fans that want into the original cavern. Replicas were built in SL but whether they are legal is questionable. The license will clear that up, one way or the other.

While I have seen what we call Cyan quality builds in SL they were done by professionals. Most of the replicas where built by fans just learning building in SL. The quality of building is getting better and Devokan caught the attention of a large number of SL folks and even the Linden Lab management. Dot and Paislee are building some very nice stuff with excellent quality. Jandai and Taimaru are putting together a puzzle age I think will approach Myst quality. Builders for Hypergrid are learning and getting better. Those Myst style builds do not need Cyan licenses or content and both Blender and Prim builders can work on them.

There is a basis for anticipating Cyan restricting use of the Cyan ages to Plasma servers and clients. I hope they won’t but I can’t say the odds are good. If by some chance they do allow flexible use of the content then we can build the cavern on the Hypergrid.

When we do get the licenses predicting when things will happen is easy. The big delay at that point will be how long does it take to get a license agreement signed and in place and what restrictions will be imposed. If the license gives permission to use Cyan content with whatever restrictions, we will likely see some of the private shards running on UU and alcugs servers go public in days or weeks.

OpenUru.org is considering creating OpenUru.net as a hosting resource for those wanting to have Uru server shards. The use of cloud computing resources is being investigated, organized and set up. Plans are in place for several scenarios that depend on what restriction Cyan places on use of their content. But until we have the licenses no one wants to walk to far out on any one path or commit money. Hypergrid hosting may get OpenUru.org started hosting… it’s too early to tell and is dependent on what fans want to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:03 pm 
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Nalates, it's good to see that there are tech-savvy people like you in our community who can figure out the open-source project, code, toolset development, etc, effectively.

Me, I'm just an artist who makes stuff with the tools. I don't have the a clue how the game engine, or the server code, or any of that works, but I'm glad that there are fans who do. :)

As for when Uru will be open-sourced, I figure Cyan Worlds is in crunch time - and behind schedule - on MQO, and that they're rushing to eliminate the bugs in that program in the last days before its release.

I don't know how much longer it'll take them to open MQO, but I figure the MQO project is very stressful right now and that it's the reason why Cyan Worlds isn't communicating with us much lately.

As for when we'll see Open Source Uru, I think that may depend on how well MQO does - if it sells well, I figure Cyan will push forward on the Uru project and get us what we need to reopen a multiplayer Uru in the months following MQO's release.

If, on the other hand, MQO flops, Cyan will probably push back Uru yet again from lack of spare cycles, and keep all their staff working on more paid projects.

So, when will we see Uru reopen?

Answer: It depends on Cyan's financial condition and how long it takes them to find the needed spare cash.

And, BTW, nonlinear's post was hilarious.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:11 pm 
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matthornb wrote:
I figure Cyan Worlds is in crunch time - and behind schedule - on MQO

Heh, that's actually funny. Cyan stays pretty well ahead of things. They have to keep us in line. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Quote:
Cyan stays pretty well ahead of things. They have to keep us in line.


Hmmm, that implies that they do have some "sparetime" at the moment, is that correct?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:17 pm 
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Location: Gonna find me a bahro and gonna name it Dave...
They spend most of their time trying to keep us from taking drastic measures... 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:04 am 
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If I don't get Uru live I jump off Relto Island

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:15 am 
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Location: Gonna find me a bahro and gonna name it Dave...
Why bother? You just end up back in the same place. Jump off the bridge in aegura and try to catch the marker on the way down... now that's a challenge. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:36 am 
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KT, thanks for the memory! :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:57 pm 
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there is absolutely no reason to hassle Cyan about trying to grab URU for other places. URU and MOUL are what they are and we love them as they are.

the 3D universe is wide and deep and you can go make anything you want. I am tired of hearing people go on and on about how they want to do this and that to URU in other places. Go to the other places and let us enjoy URU as it is. Lets look forward to being back there when the time is right, and to adding some reasonable and fun things to it. But stop please trying to grab URU and run off to make it part of the huge machine called the Virtual Universe for everything in there is going to be part of a huge melting pot of boring commonality.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
To many people, Uru is more than just a game made by Cyan. It's a very real place with a rich history and as many stories as there are people who have explored there. One of those stories is that the cavern was closed - twice - and some people moved into new worlds where they tried to maintain ties with other community members. In some of those places, people made recreations of the things and places they loved about Uru. Others made new things and places inspired by Myst-Uru in the D'ni style. They aren't stealing Uru away from anyone; they're maintaining and perpetuating the mythos of the D'ni history and keeping Uru alive for the community until the day they can return to the cavern. They should be commended, not berated.

Uru is greater than the sum of its parts. There's enough of it to go around for everyone to be happy. And, we are all responsible for creating our own happiness. No one can steal your happiness unless you let them. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:22 pm 
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And YOU are helping keep the cavern alive as long as you keep reading these posts! Keep up the good work! :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:59 am 
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What Tai'lahr said.

Besides it's not like they are planning to do something new so much as they are doing more. Getting licenses will let us know what we can do within Cyan's ideas. Right now the lines in the sand have been crossed so many times they are, for all practical purposes, lost. I think most fans try to respect Cyan's rights and plans for Uru. Not having a license means much of what has been done cannot be shared openly. Those that have stuff that fits within Cyan's rules and plans can't really know and even sharing with the popular Drizzle or Alcugs is often a problem. Sad. Licenses will clear those problems up.

Uru is what it is. Yet, it is going to change. The GoW is into creating new ages and stories. OpenUru.org discussions have considered how to change the MOUL version to better conform to the Uru story and work with new players more experienced in MMOG's. Fans are building in Team Fortress and other virtual worlds. Devokan is now 4 regions (servers?) in the OSGrid. Eder Gira is a great build in SL. People like the Uru style and are mixing it with other styles and types of game play. That is happening. One can hide from what is happening, be intolerant of those changing things, try to insist no one change it, try to keep it as a pristine monument to the 2008 game all they want... things have moved beyond that and few think it is a good idea. One has to decide if they are going to be inclusive or try to exclude others. I think those that want to exclude others will end up playing alone.

I'm watching those building in Team Fortress. Building Uru in a combat zone is about as far from the Uru ideal as I can imagine. But I understand why they think it fun. I might not ever visit that build. I certainly don't HAVE TO. They aren't stopping me from doing what I want in Devokan (SL and OSGrid - SL build closes 2/6 - visit now - party in planning). I do hope to at least see pictures. I also think it gets the word about Myst-Uru into another world. From their the curious and old players of Myst may find their way back to the Cavern. So, I'll offer them encouragement and help where I can and include them in as many of the things others are doing as I can. :P

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