It is currently Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:59 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
Tai'lahr, I do like your idea. I would love for Cyan to find a way to make money from their creations.

I like Ed's comment about Cyan protectng their IP. That it is already out there does not relieve Cyan of continuing to try and protect their rights and restrict the use of their IP, if they want to keep their rights.

A little technical background for the SL/OS grids may make the risk Cyan would take clearer.

In SL Linden Lab runs the servers. On the SL grid the only other people running servers are people like IBM. SL says when the grid opens up only 'Gold' providers will be able to connect. This means LL has strict control over all the servers connecting to their grid. Cyan could run one of those servers and I suspect qualify to connect to the SL grid. The software to run such a server goes for US$55k. I expect that closes that option for Cyan before we consider the cost of learning how to run the server, hardware to run it on and bandwidth costs.

The alternative is to use either the open source server Open Simulator or lease a region in SL. As far as I know LL will not allow OpenSim servers to connect to the SL grid. Since the operator has the code they can make the server do whatever they want. LL won't risk misuse and allow those servers full access to the Asset Server where everything in SL could be downloaded. This would mean an Open Simulator server would need to connect to one of the open source grids. We know the costs and how leasing an SL region works.

As of October 2009 the OSGrid was hoping to reach 150 concurrent users (Reference). When I consider that texture packs on the grid sell for a couple of dollars, if not pennies, I can't see a large enough market in either SL or OS grids to entice Cyan to go to the effort and cost to open a region on either. I think the cost to open a store would be more than they would ever recover from sales.

While I would love to see Cyan do something like your suggestion, I can't see sales even paying for the electricity to run the server. However, license me to use Cyan meshes and textures and I'll go dig them out. They don't even have to provide them. That must be the cheapest way to provide them, license only. May be sell the license. (/me waves her licenses now sign)

I could have all this mis-figured and Cyan might do something like you suggest. I just don't expect it to happen.

As JWP points out, many allow use of IP as long as there is no use for profit. ...I guess one could consider much of the use we see now is not a problem as there is no use for profit. Cyan has NOT blessed such non-profit use. Doing so and stating what is and is not acceptable would certainly help the fan base and allow many of us to move off 'pause'.

On the other side... We are starting to explore what might be done on the OS grids at OpenUru.org (Suggestions -> Thinking about infrastructure) and create a support point for those playing there and those wanting to check out the growing OS grids. More people are learning how to set up and run servers, looking at buying hosting services (like SIM on Demand - may be US$7/mo for a region - cost based on time avatars are there), running regions and moving SL builds to OSGrid. Its sort of a second step for SL builders. The options in OSGrid and related grids are allowing more fans to play with building Myst style ages (regions).

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:11 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Florida USA
Nalates Wrote:
Quote:
Tai'lahr, I do like your idea. I would love for Cyan to find a way to make money from their creations.


Tai'lahr, Your idea has merit on the surface and in principle, but it’s simply a matter of practical finance. Cost versus Return. I’m sure Cyan legal is monitoring all avenues of revenue recovery and has likely been watching for the more blatant abuses to warrant legal action.

Nalates Wrote:
Quote:
While I would love to see Cyan do something like your suggestion, I can't see sales even paying for the electricity to run the server. However, license me to use Cyan meshes and textures and I'll go dig them out. They don't even have to provide them. That must be the cheapest way to provide them, license only. May be sell the license. (/me waves her licenses now sign)


Nalates, I say keep waving the Licensing Flag at Cyan, because that’s where the key of everything Open Source Uru happening hinges upon, everything after that are just the details. It would be nice to see that door opened.

Part of a Nalates Quote of JWP:
Quote:
As JWP points out, Cyan has NOT blessed such non-profit use. Doing so and stating what is and is not acceptable would certainly help the fan base and allow many of us to move off 'pause'.


I believe that it’s this long stuck on pause to Open Source Uru that has us all so frustrated and struck with glassy eyed stares of amazement to the point of discouraged bewilderment. It is Nalates flag-waving to the licensing details needing to be worked out and done to truly get open source Uru to a point of reality that remains the key issue between the explorers and Cyan. If that could ever be done, I think everyone would agree that the rest of the details behind the release of the physics engine, coding issue, etc. could easily be overcome with time.

In reading between the video interviews and announcement lines, I speculate that Rand/ Cyan’s desires to pursue the MORE option and run the servers themselves was always what they hoped for. They just never envisioned the financial inability to do so being this long, and so we wait, and we wait, and we wait. Licensing of Open Source Uru to fan run servers and releasing the engine, codes and what not, would be considered a last ditch save option. Given the amount of time already passed since MOUL, could Cyan give us a hint about when to much to has elapsed for MORE and we can do Open Source?

The point was made had Cyan released a Licencing Agreement at the end of MOUL, we probably would have managed a fan created solution around the existing hurdles by now. Sigh.

I think the best suggestion now is. Cyan, why keep us waiting on a no end in sigh financing of MORE and you running the servers? How about taking us off pause and give us a Licencing Agreement we can run with?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:59 am 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Jahmen wrote:
Licensing of Open Source Uru to fan run servers and releasing the engine, codes and what not, would be considered a last ditch save option. Given the amount of time already passed since MOUL, could Cyan give us a hint about when to much to has elapsed for MORE and we can do Open Source?

We're already in that "last ditch" save. The plans for MORE were replaced with the plans for open source in December 2008. I differentiate MORE from the open source plans. They are not the same thing unless Cyan extends the definition - the MORE roadmap - to include open source. MORE was a different animal; only the plug-in code was to be released. Open Uru includes the client, servers and tool sources. Otherwise applying "MORE" to the open source plans confuses the issue in terms of what they mean. Personally, I believe open source is the only way Uru has a chance to thrive short of a White Knight (such as a major motion picture studio reviving the franchise for the movie).

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:33 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 4250
Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
JWPlatt wrote:
The plans for MORE were replaced with the plans for open source in December 2008. I differentiate MORE from the open source plans. They are not the same thing unless Cyan extends the definition - the MORE roadmap - to include open source.

My interpretation of the November 25th update from RAWA, which included this line:
Rand Miller wrote:
We want to "open source" URU, and keep a centralized server/world.

is that there is a fork in the roadmap and they intend to do both MORE & Open Uru. IMO, both options will benefit the other. Perhaps the "roadmap" needs a new name that is neither MORE nor Open Uru, but incorporates both.

_________________
Explorers Memorial * In Memoriam


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:53 am 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
More Open Uru!

:P

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:24 am
Posts: 266
Location: Spokane, WA.
JWPlatt wrote:
Another suggestion I had was to release the current binaries (no sources, like UU) as a stop-gap to get shards operational and generate global interest, possibly many months before the open source code is complete enough to compile and execute.


I remember Chogon mentioning at one time that MOUL was being run on Windows Servers with the Oracle database engine. Setting up a Windows Server wouldn't be that hard, but unless the server could access their open source database (Berkeley DB), most shard admins probably wouldn't want to pay for the commercial version.

Another option is to let people put up open Alcugs shards, or UU shards where the authentication has been disabled. Although it's not a perfect solution, at least it will give the fans a place to congregate again until Open Source gets off the ground. Many of us former UU shard owners are still willing to help :)

Ashtar


Last edited by Ashtar on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:33 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Stadskanaal (Netherlands)
JWPlatt wrote:
More Open Uru!

:P


Sounds like MOUL = More Open Uru Legislated (by Cyan) :P

Ashtar wrote:
Another option is to let people put up open Alcugs shards, or UU shards where the authentication has been disabled. Although it's not a perfect solution, at least it will give the fans a place to congregate again until Open Source gets off the ground. Many of us former UU shard owners are still willing to help


Couldn't agree more. :wink: .

_________________
still wondering where thr dutch myst fans went ...........


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: