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With Open Source, should new Shards be allowed?
Yes 67%  67%  [ 41 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Unsure 20%  20%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 61
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Since we've all finally returned to the Cavern, I feel a great since of family I haven't felt in years.

It is with that that I look back on the OS discussions, and the possibility of Shards run by users to get content to the masses. I feel as if, now that we're finally together, splitting apart into different Shards or servers would be more detremental to Uru's survival than if we were to, say, use the money from those servers to donate to Cyan Worlds and ensure bigger servers and possibly more content.

My question is this: With the birth of OSMO, should different Shards be allowed like they were before, or should we stay on one main server and use the money to afford larger servers/more content?

I understand that it might take more time to go Open Source efficiently assuming we stick to a Cyan-run server, but I just don't feel like the game will survive if more servers are added, or that having servers completely unconnected from Cyan Worlds might just isolate the game into small niche communities.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:30 pm 
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I don't know how feasible it is but I've always like the idea of Cyan servers doing all the auth stuff and everything going thru them to the shards... like..

You log in to the game thru Cyan server.
If you go to the main city or anything "official" it's cyan server.
If you go to "Fred's Bevin", Fred can setup his bevin on HIS server and run every link going out of his bevin to his content on his server... except the Nexus. The Nexus will always lead back to Cyan servers. Your Relto book will always take you back to your relto be it on Cyan server or your own server.
The Nexus will need an extra page of public shards... maybe use the 0000000000 next to the bevins to indicate outside server stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:08 pm 
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I voted yes and I Also Think the different shards you be linked together


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Sudre brings up an interesting point. If user-made content was simply pushed onto user-owned Servers, and Cyan Content stayed on the main server, I'd be okay with that.

I just don't like the idea of entire communities separated from each other, and it will be interesting to see how OS develops.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Since a shard is built on its database (vault), the likelihood is for fragmentation.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:00 pm 
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I'm ok with fragmentation. I think it's the best way to get an optimal playing experience for everyone, also to ensure the long term success of Uru, not in financial success, but in that we can play it for a long time. I'd also like to see the different experiences on different shards - with the Cyan ages and perhaps with additional fan ages added.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:59 am 
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I'm quite happy with the Cyan shard... but I'd also be happy to see people who are not, or who are convinced they can do better than Cyan, to start their own :) I think that's a win-win for everyone :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:31 am 
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Imagine open source projects like phpBB, Wordpress, MySQL or Wikipedia only being allowed on servers owned by those organizations. Yeah, it doesn't make sense, does it. And it would severely stifle interest, development and the future of those projects, wouldn't it. It's like that - common sense.

And in the same regard people can create their own styles and content for those things, use it, charge for it, buy it, offer services to create it or use it in new ways, do whatever they want to do with it, so long as it is not owned by someone else. The content is not necessarily open. More common sense.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:30 am 
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JW, please don't be deathly cynical in your posts. If you're mocking me for being obtuse in some reason, come out and say so.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:45 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Imagine open source projects like phpBB, Wordpress, MySQL or Wikipedia only being allowed on servers owned by those organizations.

Those are not games, though. In my opinion we need to think about these questions in different ways.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:51 am 
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I would prefer to see servers with a universal account. I don't like the idea of having multiple logins/clients and I can't see the general public liking that much either. Multiple shards, though? Yes.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:00 am 
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Nek'rahm wrote:
JW, please don't be deathly cynical in your posts. If you're mocking me for being obtuse in some reason, come out and say so.

I'm not sure how one would mock this poll. I'm certainly not doing that. I like the poll and I support the open source plans. My response had little to do with what you said and everything to do with how I feel. It was from the heart, off the cuff, and I intended no cynicism or mockery. If you feel one way and I feel another, that's okay, because then everyone gets to read our points of view and make up their own minds. So perhaps we can start where you believe the open source plans could be mocked and then resolve it. Dr. Kodama told me last weekend as he approached me in Ae'gura that he was assured I wouldn't bite. Now that was a surprise because I thought he was the one to fear. Where did I get this rep that would leave both you and Dr. Kodama paranoid? ;)

You sent a lengthy PM which I really appreciate because it shows you care. It deserves consideration and lengthy responses. It would be a shame to do that in private where no one else could participate and learn. Why not post it here and see what happens.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:06 am 
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It seems something was lost in translation here. While reading your post, I had the feeling you were coming off as almost critically cynical towards what I'd said.

If you wish to discuss things in the open, I'll put down the arguments I sent you:

My concerns aren't over how far the game spreads, but rather that the "community" part of it will be lost. People who've made spin offs of things like phpBB and Wikipedia do come back to the original, but it is often out of necessity.

What happens when you give free reign of something over to the masses with nothing to draw them back to the original source? Will hundreds or thousands of people stay in one place just because its there, or will they fragment off to different groups which tailor to their specific needs?

The thing that has kept the game alive is community. Until Uru was fun while it lasted, but with no central hub to link back to, most groups were isolated and lacked the unity that MOUL and Uru Live created. By opening up the doors for dozens of spin-off servers, true you gain a way to have more "fun" with something in the same way that modders get to create different servers for other games.

Question: When games have the unlimited potential for constant modding on their own free servers, where do most new players go?

To go further, let's use the game Freelancer as an example. You could mod the game to no end and do whatever you wanted with the tools already present. Some servers have mods only slightly different, some have enough detail for expansion packs.

What happens when someone stumbles on a new game where there isn't an original version? What happens when all they're thrown into is a world of primarily user-created content and servers (rather than one containing a company-owned central hub), run by niche groups that may or may not try to help the new player stand on their own two feet?

In Freelancer, you can't even play without having these dozens of different mods. As a result, to gain their bearings, players go to Vanilla servers where they can learn the game and enjoy themselves in a community that is united in their goal of letting everyone play and have fun. What happens then if there aren't any Vanilla servers?

Players dive into something they don't understand with no clue where they are. Without a firm foundation, a house will fall, no matter how sturdy. Without a centralized server, be it Cyan run or otherwise, running on the basis of being a "main server" for people to become interested in the game, Uru will slowly die again because the only ones who will remain interested in it are the hardcore gamers.

People have made spin-offs of things like Wikipedia, yes. Tell me, out of the millions of people who use Wikipedia, how many of them make new sites? Even further, how many of those millions are active users of these spin-off sites?

Now give them something not very user-friendly at all to get thrust into. What happens then? Where does the community go?

Back to the source.

So what happens when there isn't a "source?"


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:33 am 
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I gotta agree here. I think the community could end up falling apart without some sort of central server to be connected to. People could start playing Uru, yet the mods who own or control the server could completely turn it into something not having a thing to do with Myst or Uru, keeping continuity.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:43 am 
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I'm not saying "no" to Shards (I voted Unsure), I'm just saying that we should worry more about supporting Cyan, getting a Central Server to expand out from and maybe keeping Shards limited to 3 or 4 major ones at first, and just keep things small enough so the community stays together as it expands.


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