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With Open Source, should new Shards be allowed?
Yes 67%  67%  [ 41 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Unsure 20%  20%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 61
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:06 am 
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Creative Kingdoms

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I hope to get back to this with more "lengthy" contributions when I have the chance.

But for now, assuming open source, I believe these points to be true and realistic. From these you could possibly derive my answers before I do:


JWPlatt's 19.2-Step Great Trunk Uru/Plasma Program


0a. Nature demands a circle of life where the main trunk lives to seed more of its kind, reproducing and evolving.

0b. Uru will die without open source.

1. Without Cyan in the picture, Plasma survives.

2. Without Cyan in the picture, Uru atrophies and dies from slow attrition.

3. Uru needs Cyan in the picture to live.

4. MQO is an example of a "Total Conversion" (repurposing the engine with completely different content and IP).

5. Other total conversions create a horizontal Plasma market (Uru is a vertical).

6. Experimentation and shard diversity leads to synergistic development benefitting a horizontal Plasma market.

7. Widespread use of Plasma helps the main trunk and thereby Uru.

8. Cyan holds the commit rights to the main trunk.

9. Most shards would install from the main trunk.

10. Most people would subscribe to shards using installs from the main trunk.

11. Subshards (independent servers attached to Cyan's network) operate under a Cyan Agreement.

12. Cyan's official shard offers user content via a user content nexus spanning the subshards.

13. Independent shards and their subshards contribute back to the main trunk.

14. Cyan controls the Myst/Uru canon.

15. Most authors and talent are attracted to the Cyan shard and subshards for popular use.

16. Most subscribers are attracted to the authors using the Cyan network.

17. Most authors publish to where the market is.

18. Some authors and developers operate on the fringe, contributing to the broader diversity mentioned in #6.

19. Loop appropriately.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:35 am 
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Just from that I understand where you're coming from, and I agree.

Open Source will ensure that the game survives, but we need to remain close to Cyan and support them for it to truly grow as a whole and not just in the Shards.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:00 am 
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Regardless of good intentions, I feel that if we are given the option to run our own independent shards the community will quickly fragment. The last thing I want to do is split this community up. I would hate knowing there were cool and interesting people that I could meet and befriend if only I were in a "different" Cavern.

That said, I do think it is important that Cyan be ready to release the server code just in case something bad happens and Cyan can no longer support their own server. I don't know how long they've rented the server they have now for, but I've heard as long as a year (!) which is very reassuring.

For Uru to survive the community must survive. So to me it seems equally important that we avoid fragmenting, and also that we're prepared for the worst.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:14 am 
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The worst often comes when specialized communities encounter new circumstances. Think in terms of nature and also business. A specialized ecology is fragile and dies quickly. Diversification protects against extinction. Excluding huge asteroids, of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am 
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This is true, but in the same sense, if Earth were to expand into space and found numerous and greater colonies out in the galaxy and beyond, it would ensure human survival.

However, in a few hundred years, would what remains be "human?" If we've strayed so far from home, are we truly a part of what we set forth from?

Diversification and expansion of Uru through OSMO is necessary and it will come in time. Yet it must be a controlled growth and one that does not stray so far from its core that it no longer becomes Uru, or even a part of Myst, lest the community that has lasted nearly a decade (for Uru alone) become shattered, broken and disjointed to the point where Uru finally comes to a close.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:32 am 
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Creative Kingdoms

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In "It's a Wonderful Life," Jimmy Stewart begs the townsfolk not to put a run on his bank. He pleads, "If Potter gets hold of this Building & Loan, there'll never be another decent house built in this town." There's a debate tactic term for this, but I can't recall it at the moment. It may be called a "dividing wedge" or something like that. It means using the fear of something bad happening to convince others one's way is right. I think suggesting such dire consequences like a shattered community is like that. By the way, it might be more poetic to say "The community would be shattered like shards of glass." ;)

The Bank Run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu2uJWSZkck

Time index: 00:04:50.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:08 pm 
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I think these concerns are a little melodramatic, to be frank. No one is going to somehow forget what Uru is just because we can run our own fan made servers with our own fanfiction content, or use the source code to create total conversions. The core vanilla content isn't going to go away or magically stop being relevant. Uru will always be Uru, and the Myst universe will always by the Myst universe.

And it's doubtful that true open sourcing would cause "fragmenting". If anything it would increase the community's cohesion. Each shard team will see the value in collaborating with each other; swapping code, tips on how to run things, sharing fan content etc. Even for people who aren't involved in the coding side, I sincerely doubt there will be many players who will stick to only one shard. We'll want to see everything that's out there.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:00 pm 
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With the currently available technique it is inevitable to open more shards (there should be 2-3 ones even now). Because of lag, login, network, etc. problems the number of active players is limited (for example, how many shards a.k.a realms are in WoW?). However, there must be a central control to ensure the same content, the same technical side of each one. This will be especially necessary when open source Uru will be available.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:50 pm 
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I disagree with the "we need to stay close to Cyan." They're important, and I think a Cyan shard is good, but the community needs the "freedom to fragment" so to speak. While Until Uru had community battles, those are unavoidable, and at least there people had a "safe" place where they could go. If we have one Cyan shard with so few as 3-4 other shards, that option really isn't there.

I said I preferred a single client, etc. What I want to see, and what Uru needs, is the ability for anyone to set up an Open Uru shard. No "Cyan Agreements," no "permission" to run a shard. Cyan should have their shard AND allow people who want to help out with bandwidth and content do the Cyan Agreement stuff. However, I want people to be able to do their own thing. Whether that involves getting content streams from Cyan or turning the Arch mauve, it makes no difference. If you don't like the color of the Arch, you go where it's a preferable color. If you don't like content from source X, Y, or Z, you go to the place where that's the case.

In short, it's not Open Source if you need Cyan's approval to operate a shard. Uru WILL die without open source, so let's get it out here as fast as possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:27 pm 
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I also would prefer a single client (but more than one shard).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:56 pm 
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I always bristle when the term "the community" gets used without some broader discussion of what and who exactly constitutes "the community." The reason is that arguments that invoke "the community" usually (not always) involve restrictions on people's choices. One can make a case, I suppose, that there are economies of scale or other forces at work that make a single or few shards more efficient than many shards, in which case fewer shards give Uru a stronger chance of surviving. But I have a hard time seeing a case for making "the community" stronger by forcing people into that single or those fewer shards. Building a community is fundamentally a process of persuasion, not coercion. Because there are powerful forces that attract people in social games to places where there are larger numbers of people, an Open Source Uru is likely to have a small set of strong shards anyways, especially if Cyan runs one. These shards will naturally provide a central space in which "the community" would flourish. Attempting to impose this outcome by restricting the number of shards at the outset, however, will simply alienate people and cause the very discord this solution imagines it avoids.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Creative Kingdoms

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Whilyam wrote:
What I want to see, and what Uru needs, is the ability for anyone to set up an Open Uru shard. No "Cyan Agreements," no "permission" to run a shard. Cyan should have their shard AND allow people who want to help out with bandwidth and content do the Cyan Agreement stuff. However, I want people to be able to do their own thing.

Right. But because you quoted me, it appears you don't think that's what I meant. I did mean a Cyan shard for those who wish to join it as subshards under Agreement, and independent shards for those who don't. The "economy" will sort it out and I predict the Cyan shard will be the most significant with independent shards doing more diverse things to feed back into the system.

All the above posts appear to be following my 19.2-step program. ;)

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:34 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
... it's not Open Source if you need Cyan's approval to operate a shard. Uru WILL die without open source, so let's get it out here as fast as possible.

Sorry, me or my English was not clear enough. I agree that shards should exist without Cyan's approval. Open source solution might lead to several incompatible little shards which is, of course, their own business, however, it could be a nuisance for simple explorers. I mean there should be an "official" or "central" main shard (with or without or partly with Cyan). I remember that in the case of Until Uru after the initial enthusiasm there were many shards which were usually empty apart from a 1-2 hours at weekends. What if, in addition, in the future they would be incompatible? I mean, everyone should have the possibility to set up and open a private or experimental shard, but the best user-made Ages should be made available at a "central" shard.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:40 pm 
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> but the best user-made Ages should be made available at a "central" shard.

I don't see that as a shard but as a repository: anyone can choose to download an age to be part of their shard.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Norfren wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
... it's not Open Source if you need Cyan's approval to operate a shard. Uru WILL die without open source, so let's get it out here as fast as possible.

Sorry, me or my English was not clear enough. I agree that shards should exist without Cyan's approval. Open source solution might lead to several incompatible little shards which is, of course, their own business, however, it could be a nuisance for simple explorers. I mean there should be an "official" or "central" main shard (with or without or partly with Cyan). I remember that in the case of Until Uru after the initial enthusiasm there were many shards which were usually empty apart from a 1-2 hours at weekends. What if, in addition, in the future they would be incompatible? I mean, everyone should have the possibility to set up and open a private or experimental shard, but the best user-made Ages should be made available at a "central" shard.


Precisely what I was trying to say earlier (though I'll admit, not as eloquently...).


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