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 Post subject: An idea
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:28 pm 
So I'm standing on that furthest rock in Ahnonay first sphere...the one you have to get to to have any hope of reaching the island against the current...and I think "You know, it would be really nice if I could link to this spot."

And it occurred to me...how feasible would it be, as a precursor to allowing fan-made content, to introduce a mechanism to allow explorers to Write Linking Books to specific places within a Cyan Age? It wouldn't be changing the Age in any way or appropriating Cyan's IP. It would fit the mechanics of Writing as we know them. It would make some of the more stupidly repetitive things in URU less repetitive.

Also, it would provide something that I've been afraid is going to get quietly shoved aside; an IC rationale for the learning of the Art. As things are, we've got people who have been doing things offline talking about being able to Write their own Ages, but in the game there's been no way that they could do that. The DRC never released any information about Writing, there haven't been any spare blank Books found, any actual Age Books at all, or vats of the izzy-wizzy ink or whatever. It would make logical sense if we took our first steps by examining the Linking Books we've been given, finding out how they work, putting our knowledge together (as it were) and experimenting with linking within the Ages we have.

And I wouldn't have to keep jumping off that pinnacle in Gahreesen and thinking "oh b*gg*r" as I miss the target yet again...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:21 pm 
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User created content can not change Cyan's work. I think that's the part many don't seems to understand. You also can't work in or around their story arc. If you want to write an age you write your own age with your own story. I think this limit would include not allowing ppl to write linking books to Cyan ages because there are reason, story arc reasons, you link into a particular spot.
Humans getting the ability to write ages to me is a simple explanation. Someone found a book similar to the one Atrus read that explained the basics or even the complexities of how to write ages. This book was found years ago... like 10 years ago and no one has figured it out completely altho there have been attempts in a secret group of explorers who don't/didn't want the DRC or Kate to know. One day someone will get it right and come out of the closet and show the world what they can do. Then they will rapidly start to teach others.
That's how I think about it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:38 pm 
I know about the story arc reasons for the linking points being set, but once the story arc is finished there's no reason for there not to be other linking points within an Age. At the moment and for the foreseeable future Cyan have no new stories to tell with these Ages. My idea would both facilitate the creation of new stories within and around Cyan's Ages, and also serve narrative plausibility.

I do actually understand that user created content cannot be allowed to change Cyan's work. I don't see that what I'm suggesting is materially changing their work, though of course I could be wrong about that. Nor is it affecting their story arc if I get to that rock in Ahnonay first time (or second, rather, since I'd have to do it once to Write the Linking Book) rather than fourteenth. These new links could be made unshareable to prevent anyone else profiting from them, if that's really important...but I'm not talking about getting to anywhere you can't get to already, or making any part of an Age that Cyan hasn't provided, or changing a single pixel or polygon.

Sudre wrote:
Humans getting the ability to write ages to me is a simple explanation. Someone found a book similar to the one Atrus read that explained the basics or even the complexities of how to write ages. This book was found years ago... like 10 years ago and no one has figured it out completely altho there have been attempts in a secret group of explorers who don't/didn't want the DRC or Kate to know. One day someone will get it right and come out of the closet and show the world what they can do. Then they will rapidly start to teach others.
That's how I think about it.


I expect that will probably be the story, if anyone actually bothers with one. I find it unsatisfying, the same sort of rabbit-out-of-a-hat "oh look, it was here all along" stunt that we're used to from bad books and TV shows. It cuts across all the interesting parts of the learning process, all the potential stories that could be told around explorers finding their way into the Art, vying for success, dealing with frustration. We'd just get the answer dumped in our laps, hey presto, there you are, go Write.

I'm not precious about my particular idea...but I'd like us in some way to have the chance to discover the Art, not just get given it. We're explorers, discoverers, here to find things out. That's what Uru was all about.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:58 pm 
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I think this topic is one of the hold ups with everything. It's hard to set the limits so the fans understand them... because in some cases the fans will just refuse to understand. You can not in any way possible, make any changes at all to any content Cyan has written. period end of story. I don't make the rules I just read them. That includes a link in spot in Ahnonay or anywhere else for that matter.

I don't think the rules have changed and I don't see anyone correcting me... yet.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:17 pm 
Sudre wrote:
I don't think the rules have changed and I don't see anyone correcting me... yet.


Well, that's one of the reasons I posted this. If I get authoritative word (or, more likely, no word at all :() that it is and will always be a no-no, I'll know. On the other hand, if a Cyanist were to say that it might be a possibility somewhere down the line, then I'd ..er...also know. That's why we post ideas.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:52 pm 
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I adhere to RAWA's initial rules on using Cyan material with my Ages:

1 - Writers must live within the D'ni limitations of Writing.

2 - Writers must not break continuity with previously released D'ni information.

3 - Writers must not reveal "new" information about characters, places, groups, etc. used by Cyan.

4 - Writers must limit "new" information about D'ni society to specific, smaller groups within D'ni.

5 - Writers must not use the intellectual property of others.

In short, my Ages are never "Yeesha-magic-ed" to link to themselves etc., they don't say Kadish was King of D'ni, they don't tell a story about how King Kedri was really a Bahro, they don't say that all D'ni walked around on Fridays in funny hats, and they don't use textures from Gira.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Sudre wrote:
I think this topic is one of the hold ups with everything. It's hard to set the limits so the fans understand them... because in some cases the fans will just refuse to understand. You can not in any way possible, make any changes at all to any content Cyan has written. period end of story. I don't make the rules I just read them. That includes a link in spot in Ahnonay or anywhere else for that matter.

I don't think the rules have changed and I don't see anyone correcting me... yet.

I think you are pretty much correct Sudre. But, there is the matter of bugs… There is also the matter of how to start the game… The matter of how and where to add link books to fan ages… All these things tend to get people thinking we will ‘have to’ be able to make some changes. I see it as just not knowing where the line will be drawn.

That Cyan has said the licenses will allow ‘some’ of their content to be modified adds a bit of confusion too. I assume they mean the bugs, possibly the nexus, and may be the game start. At OpenUru.org and here alternate game starts have been discussed. Some assume that no Cyan Age changes will be allowed. Others assume some changes will be allowed. It makes it very confusing for many.

King Kedri was really a Bahro… really? Wow. I mean… was he like a Bahro… may be like wearing Clark Kent glasses or something so people wouldn’t notice?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:47 am 
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Quote:
King Kedri was really a Bahro… really? Wow. I mean… was he like a Bahro… may be like wearing Clark Kent glasses or something so people wouldn’t notice?

Whilyam has said it now it must be canon!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:48 am 
Whilyam wrote:
I adhere to RAWA's initial rules on using Cyan material with my Ages:

1 - Writers must live within the D'ni limitations of Writing.

2 - Writers must not break continuity with previously released D'ni information.

3 - Writers must not reveal "new" information about characters, places, groups, etc. used by Cyan.

4 - Writers must limit "new" information about D'ni society to specific, smaller groups within D'ni.

5 - Writers must not use the intellectual property of others.


Thanks, Whilyam. Those were certainly the rules as I understood them, and while I understand that, as RAWA said, they are a work in progress, I don't see how my suggestion violates a one of them. You have to go to a place in order to Write a Linking Book to it. This is within the D'ni limitations, breaks no continuity, reveals no new information and changes nothing of Cyan's IP. Thinking about it, it wouldn't necessarily even be adding a Book to the Relto shelf...just another page to the Age's existing Book, exactly as if one had found a bahro stone or something. Given that Cyan's expressed objective is to have us adding Books right left and centre, that seems fairly minimal to me.

As I said, I'm not precious about it. I can see why it might be impractical or why Cyan might not wish it. I'm just surprised that, as a tentative suggestion made with an eye to narrative consistency as much as anything else, it got stomped on quite so heavily.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
my Ages (...)don't say that all D'ni walked around on Fridays in funny hats,

But they did! :o Yeesha told us so.. "And in the days of yore D'ni elders used to roam the streets on late friday nights with mighty green hats and feathers to scare the children!.."
Those pesky D'ni elders..

Wait, sorry, I was thinking of the St Patrick Parade.. forget it.


Last edited by aloys on Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:08 pm 
I've emailed [email protected] to ask about this. Just to satisfy my curiosity.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:32 pm 
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zander_nyrond wrote:
You have to go to a place in order to Write a Linking Book to it. This is within the D'ni limitations, breaks no continuity, reveals no new information and changes nothing of Cyan's IP.

IC speaking, yes. Nothing would prevent an Explorer from going to any Age with a blank linking book and create a new linking spot for his/her own use.. As a matter of fact some people have already done that.

OOC speaking it's not too complicated either. You can totally add a new linking point to an Age without modifying the Age itself. Technically speaking all you need to do is add a new page containing only that linking point and update the Age's .age file, then you only need to add a new book in your Relto. Now, this won't work in MOULa because you can't add/change Age files, (for security reasons) but it shouldn't be too hard to do in a controlled manner as an actual gamepaly feature when the server/client sources are released.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:54 am 
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Aloys wrote:
[...]Now, this won't work in MOULa because you can't add/change Age files, (for security reasons) but it shouldn't be too hard to do in a controlled manner as an actual gamepaly feature when the server/client sources are released.

Each time a linking point was added and an age file updated... wouldn't that create problems for the launcher checking for damaged files?

If the launcher were given the updated information then wouldn't everyone be downloading the updated age files?

Or am I missing how this would work?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:37 am 
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I'm thinking adding a linking point could change the gameplay - thus, a "de facto" change to the Age. Obviously not meant to be used to "cheat" Ages; hopefully nobody attempts to exploit this (i.e. creating an Age with links to all the hot spots on the quest, that'd be rather silly though) and cause a reaction.

But let me get this right - Uru allows users to link into any Age at an arbitrary set of coordinates on the map? It does make sense as we've seen multiple link points being used into single maps (the big mushroom comes to mind).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:00 am 
The "added" linking points could maybe be made non-transferable, or only transferable after the Age has been done once. I don't know, I am not a techie. I don't know how Cyan does linking points.

If it were possible (and allowable) it would be perhaps useful for marker games and other post-Journey in-Age play. And it would also perhaps be a gateway into whatever IC mechanism might be devised for simulating the exercise of the Art. I'm envisaging here (in purely blue-sky terms) something like a Book-making Age, where you'd go and pick up a blank Book, upload the necessary files via a beefed-up (and reorganised) KI interface, and some time later collect your new Linking Book (or, in due course, Age Book) for placement on your Relto.

I know this will seem unimportant to many if not most people, that there be some in-game expression of the change from a semi-passive explorer to a Writer of links and Ages...that the Art becomes not merely something technical we do outside the game but an integral part of the Uru experience...but it's important to me, all right? *strikes pose* There should be some way, intrinsic to the game, by which we can, if you want to put it that way, RP Writing.


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