It is currently Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:47 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:05 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Anywhere
We the Uru purists should be in charge of this new Uru. But we face a problem.

It's clear that when we're this outnumbered by non canon people who want to make nonsense, run around in colored skin or as upside down flying bahro, we have to rule the non canon through intimidation. That's why the single most important thing we can do as cavern purists is dominate and decide all fan ages and do all the thinking for the fans. For we know what's good for everyone. Need MORE proof?

"Let us join together and to rule over content upon sea and sky from hard disk to hard disk"- Joe The Greeter 4002.

I'd say that about covers it. Because if we don't dominate the non canon people, you'd better believe they will be dominating us!!! Imagine if you will, someone making a YouTube video from this idea.

"As the shards churn" - By Overlord Tomala.

One liner: What if the haxxors won and we surrendered to our "fellow" community members?

Tag line: "It's just like MOUL! Only at our fingertips!!!"

Where: Any fan run server you want to go to

When: The near future! All hail the shard owners once again! All having the ability to do as they did in MOUL, only now them and their team of haxx0rs have source code at their fingertips. Their first project is to engineer purple laser guided loaves of French bread to defend themselves from the flying lima bean infestation.

Our heroine (the overlord, who in this story, plays an ordinary equal), has linked to Eder Kemo on one of the fan run servers, only to find that someone turned the brain trees into singing jellyfish, the puffer plants into giant turkey basters, and the pond water into lime jello. Fearing for her life she links to Ae'Gura, only to find King Kong and a T Rex knocked the Arch over in a verbal fight to see who is more right than the other.

Some shards are giving lessons in D'ni, but only one shard is giving lessons in Sheepish.

When all hope seems to be lost, Tomala teams up with the last surviving leaders from the last reign of power. And they create the meter room shard.

The end.

Edited for spelling.

_________________
I used to be an adventurer like you, then I found other games to play.


Last edited by Tomala on Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:19 am 
DocOlana wrote:
People who never do anything special, and who never stick their neck out, and so will almost certainly never be one of the special people still get excited over the IDEA that one day it could be them.


This is the spirit in which people buy lottery tickets. I don't think that's anything to do with Uru.

You've answered me at some length, and I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to respond in kind, but it's late here and I want to get into the Cavern to see if there's anyone I know there before I go to bed.

Like you (and I'm sure this must have been clear from my other posts) I'm here for story. I'm here for the D'niverse, for the Art, for the Ages. I'm hopeless at puzzles and a nice view is just a nice view, but story will get me every time, and it worries me that it still isn't getting as much emphasis in the current crop of fan Ages as I think it should. I agree that without some form of regulation there will probably be some Ages that are not as good as others. I really don't care about that, but I recognise that you do, and while I don't accept your reasoning, I respect it.

But the one overwhelming consideration that sweeps away all your arguments, the one doomsday argument that carries all before it, is this: your system, all your systems, require a greater level of involvement on Cyan's part than Cyan can commit to or even promise to commit to at any point in the future. Now, maybe, just maybe, a time will come when that will change...but I promise you, if we have to wait for Uru till that time comes, with no assurance that it ever will, if until then we have nothing, or nothing but the current reanimated MOUL version of Until Uru...then by the time Cyan is ready to take charge of OS Uru, you and I will be the only ones left here. And possibly even I will have given up. People have already waited far longer than anyone would wait for any other game (that old hyper-loyalty that disturbs some people so very much) and I don't believe it's fair on them to expect them to wait another three or four or five years (I don't know how long the economy will take to turn up again, if it even does, but I don't think that's an overly pessimistic ballpark) simply because you don't trust them not to make Ages you don't like.

My system is the same as Chloe's system. Cyan says what Ages go on their server. They would have to do that anyway. Other servers are policed by their admins. People get to Write what they want, whether I like it or not. And we get some form of OS Uru (hopefully) while there is still some interest out here. That's what's important. Not quality, not quantity, not height or colour or shrimpiness. Just that open source Uru Live, authorised by Cyan, actually happens. Everything else is negotiable as far as I'm concerned.

If you want then to come up with a rating system, and give every Age marks out of ten, then that's your choice. I guarantee, as Andrew says, there'd be twenty other systems, and every one would score every Age differently, and the forums would resound with arguments along the lines of "how can you possibly give that Age a seven? Are you blind?" and so on. You can draw up a black list of all the fan-run servers that host Ages you feel don't measure up, or violate canon, or whatever. But the point is that there will be servers, and there will be Ages, and there will be explorers playing them. If we're all waiting for Cyan to make enough money to devote full-time effort to this game, there won't be any of those things. (Not legally, anyway.) And I want those things.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:30 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 2633
mszv wrote:
Remembering the issues with the liason process, I think that was a Cyan problem, not a problem on the part of the community.


No it was a community issue too.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 388
Location: Tennessee
Whilyam wrote:
There's a line in one episode of Doctor Who which pretty much sums up what you're saying about Cyan including a few fans.

The Doctor: "So, you find a breach, probe it, the sphere comes through, 600 feet above London, BAM! It leaves a hole in the fabric of reality. And that hole, you think: "Should we leave it alone, should we back off, should we play it safe?" NAH, you think: "Let's make it BIGGER!"" video for the full effect

So, Cyan comes up with this idea, tries it, people hate it. BAM! It leaves a hole in your fanbase. And that hole, you think: "Should we leave it alone, should we back off, should we play it safe?" NAH, you think: "Let's make it BIGGER!"

Now, that's not to say that I think that we can magically make it so there are no whiners, but that doesn't mean we go into reverse and give a dozen (less? You haven't specified how many Kanon Kings there would be) fans near absolute control over one of the most desired resources in any community, official recognition by the creators of the canon. You're suggesting we take a group of people and give them the most powerful position in the community as those who decide whether an Age is accepted as a canon Age and you don't see the massive problem with this?

Has your doctor checked you for cataracts?


So... Cyan is a secretive cabal of the empowered, seeking nothing but more power, lying to the people and doing things that cause obviously detrimental effects mostly as a hypothetical "what if" scenario?

I just... I mean, I don't even know what to say to that. You've compared Cyan to the Torchwood Institute.

Plus, I can only assume that "hole" you're talking about is the DRC Liaison elections, because that's the only time Cyan has done something awesome with a fan that caused backlash. And even that didn't cause backlash itself, just the ineffectiveness of the position caused it. There was no "hole" in the fanbase. There was no horrible reaction. Quite frankly every time Cyan did something cool with an explorer, all the people I talked to thought it was a fantastic and amazing thing. Oh sure, we all secretly wished it had been us instead, (even when the SoDK got the creation myth I found myself wishing Nick White had given it to me directly rather than to Thend,) but quite honestly that twinge of jealousy was a drop in the bucket compared to the utter awesome that came from explorers actually being involved with the plot.

There was no hole in the fanbase. There was no backlash of any significance. Most people thought it was an awesome thing, and for many of us it's one of the reasons we loved Uru so much.

Seriously, it's like you're posting about another game entirely. Your last few posts have just... not made any sense. Maybe I've just been in a sheltered group of explorers, I don't know, but I haven't even heard anyone but yourself say these things about the way Uru worked.

_________________
DocOlanA
KI# 02117319

The Students of D'ni Knowledge!

Next SoDK Meeting: Sunday, March 28, 20:00 (8 PM) MST (10 PM EST, 2 AM GMT)
Subject: D'ni Law and Punishment
Moderator: Ahlehn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:10 am
Posts: 372
I hope people here understand that any discussion of what is going to happen once Uru goes open source will have no impact on those who develop stuff for Uru.

You essentially are discussing matters as if there will be some way to control the content creation method and approval, whereas there will be none past the efforts of those who run servers for the game.

There already are *no* rules governing content creation in this community, and to try to globally impose any upon the builders of new content will be near impossible.

That said, there can be places that judge content that is created, however those that do must understand that no matter how much power or officialness is granted to them by Cyan, they could never control what is made or released.

_________________
BAD is as good as BAD can be.

Visit our new site!

SOUP!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:47 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Anywhere
Doc wrote:
So... Cyan is a secretive cabal of the empowered, seeking nothing but more power, lying to the people and doing things that cause obviously detrimental effects mostly as a hypothetical "what if" scenario?


I could have sworn that was some of the fan base..

Doc wrote:
There was no hole in the fanbase. There was no backlash of any significance. Most people thought it was an awesome thing, and for many of us it's one of the reasons we loved Uru so much.


Shorter Doc: Everyone should see Uru my way or the highway! ;)

_________________
I used to be an adventurer like you, then I found other games to play.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 388
Location: Tennessee
So what's your alternative? Because I'm not hearing any. I'm hearing a lot of, "Uru has to be completely open or else it's the end of the world and all the fans will leave." Which is just silly. And now I'm hearing, "Cyan can't allow any fan to do anything cool that any other fan can't do, because it's not fair and it will rip a hole in the fanbase!" Which is also rather silly.

So what's your alternative? What's your plan?

_________________
DocOlanA
KI# 02117319

The Students of D'ni Knowledge!

Next SoDK Meeting: Sunday, March 28, 20:00 (8 PM) MST (10 PM EST, 2 AM GMT)
Subject: D'ni Law and Punishment
Moderator: Ahlehn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:17 am 
Doc. Doc. Over here. Watch my lips. Oh, you can't.

Cyan, if they continue to run a server, and if they want to, will determine what Ages can be played from that server.

Fans who run servers will determine what Ages can be played from those servers.

That's the plan. That's the alternative. And that's probably what will happen anyway, if any of this happens at all please gods.

We've been saying it over and over, so I don't know why you're not hearing it.

You're not hearing
DocOlanA wrote:
"Uru has to be completely open or else it's the end of the world and all the fans will leave"
from me. What I said was "Open source online Uru, authorised by Cyan, has to happen at some point or all the fans will leave." Which I think is true. You can only push the goal back over the end of the rainbow so many times before people get realistic.

You're not hearing
DocOlanA wrote:
"Cyan can't allow any fan to do anything cool that any other fan can't do, because it's not fair and it will rip a hole in the fanbase!"
from me. What I said was "Cyan can't exert any kind of power at the moment over anything that happens outside their office buildings, because they have not got the money, the time or the manpower." Which I think is also true. They're two pay checks away from going down the tubes again and they're doing what they're doing as pure gravy for loyal Uru fans.

BAD is right in one sense. At the moment there are no rules governing content creation beyond those that might be imposed by those who run servers. Now I would vastly, vastly, prefer it if the people who get to run servers, in determining which Ages to host on their servers, would choose to follow, as a minimum, RAWA's guidelines for fan content creation. I would. I'll put my hand on my heart right now and ask anyone who's thinking of running a server if they would please consider following those guidelines, because it would be nice if some did.

But not all of them will. And I can't make them. And you can't make them. And Cyan can't make them. And what you are saying, unless I've got cloth ears as well, is "until and unless Cyan is in a strong enough position to be prepared to enforce, with the help of the entire community if necessary, a system of rules whereby no Age is published on any server that does not follow those guidelines (and some other rules about quality that I have here)...then we don't want OS Uru just yet, thanks. Because any Age that doesn't follow canon will break Uru and that will be the end of the [Uru] world and all the fans will leave."

And I think you're wrong about that. And I think it's a misleading message to be putting out, because what many of us want is to be given the tools and the trust of Cyan to manage our own content creation. Some of us may abuse that trust. That's always a possibility, in any situation where trust is involved, otherwise it isn't, you know, trust. But Cyan as the admin of their own server will have control of that, and fan server admins will have control of them, and as long as there is a Cyan server there will be somewhere for people to play if they don't want to see anything that breaks Uru canon, and if there's a Slackers server there will presumably be somewhere for people to play if they don't want any rules at all, and so on. Hopefully the shards, or whatever, will all make their intentions clear. And which particular server you go to...will be your choice. Control, and choice, are built in. Order, and freedom.

That's the plan. That's the alternative. And that's probably what will happen anyway, if any of this happens at all please gods. And I will probably find some Ages that I don't like, and you'll probably find some Ages that you don't like. That's life. Let's deal with it.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:43 am
Posts: 282
zander_nyrond wrote:
Cyan, if they continue to run a server, and if they want to, will determine what Ages can be played from that server.

Fans who run servers will determine what Ages can be played from those servers.

That's the plan. That's the alternative. And that's probably what will happen anyway, if any of this happens at all please gods.


This is very reasonable and I agree that it's what will probably happen... but how will Cyan determine what Ages can be played on the "official" server, if they don't have the resources to test and review every fan Age?

Moreover, no one here (as far as I understand) is talking about what content can be included in fan-run servers. That, of course, can only be completely server-specific and self-regulated - because of a lack of Cyan resources and most importantly because that's part of what an open source game entails. This discussion is about what will happen in the official, Cyan-run server. Of course only Cyan can decide that. But it is important to make sure that they know that there are people who want all content to be available to everyone, and people who want only the "best" of the fan-created content to be included in the official Uru. Now, my problem with the former group of people is: why do you want to enforce complete "freedom to upload" (technically incorrect wording, I know) on the official server, thereby spoiling Uru for the "purists"? there will be many alternative servers where all fan Ages will be available for exploration.

_________________
Simone - KI#1001138
Please avoid drinking the lake water.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:21 am 
I don't know how Cyan will do it. All I can say is that they will have control of that server. I wouldn't try to "enforce" freedom to upload anything on the official server for that very reason.

And as far as I can understand, Doc is exactly saying that no Age should be published on any Uru server unless it meets whatever criteria of quality and canonicity he's thinking about. Otherwise, as far as he's concerned, it "isn't Uru" and its presence on an Uru server will somehow "damage" Uru. I'm open to correction on that, though, because I know how easy it is to misunderstand and be misunderstood on the Net.

Freedom, in any case, can't be "enforced."


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am
Posts: 4134
DocOlanA wrote:
So... Cyan is a secretive cabal of the empowered, seeking nothing but more power, lying to the people and doing things that cause obviously detrimental effects mostly as a hypothetical "what if" scenario?

Not Cyan, the fans. And not a secretive cabal, blah blah blah. Let me bold this so you can read it:

I am saying that it is a bad idea to elevate a segment of the community to an immensly powerful position because previous attempts to do that had huge problems
Stop sputtering in your posts. If you can't understand plain English, get someone to read for you.

Quote:
Plus, I can only assume that "hole" you're talking about is the DRC Liaison elections, because that's the only time Cyan has done something awesome with a fan that caused backlash. And even that didn't cause backlash itself, just the ineffectiveness of the position caused it. There was no "hole" in the fanbase. There was no horrible reaction. Quite frankly every time Cyan did something cool with an explorer, all the people I talked to thought it was a fantastic and amazing thing. Oh sure, we all secretly wished it had been us instead, (even when the SoDK got the creation myth I found myself wishing Nick White had given it to me directly rather than to Thend,) but quite honestly that twinge of jealousy was a drop in the bucket compared to the utter awesome that came from explorers actually being involved with the plot.

You habe no clue what you are talking about. If you won't address the facts, please stop wasting our time here.
Anyone who thinks the Liaisons didn't have a backlash is ignorant of history. Come back when you've changed your opinion. Again.

Quote:
There was no hole in the fanbase. There was no backlash of any significance. Most people thought it was an awesome thing, and for many of us it's one of the reasons we loved Uru so much.

Summary: Nothing bad ever happened! No one disliked Uru! Everything was golden! CANON IS GOD! CANON IS GOD! ALL HAIL CANON!

Quote:
Maybe I've just been in a sheltered group of explorers, I don't know, but I haven't even heard anyone but yourself say these things about the way Uru worked.

There you go, now you got it. Yes, you have been sheltered and you would benefit from opening your mind to other experiences.

_________________
-Whilyam
Cavern Link:My IC Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:00 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:23 pm
Posts: 4589
Location: Dutch mountains
These posts do not contribute to a good atmosphere here on the forums.
Therefore I lock this thread.

Seen the importance of discussing about fan ages and custom servers and canon we suggest to open a new topic.
Please try to post constructive so that we get a good discussion.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: