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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Indeed, I knew, as everyone did that there was no money.

That's not where the disappointment lies. The disappointment is that they were offered help, and have chosen not to take that help. And as a result of that, we have a lesser game experience. The disappointment lies in the /new/ bugs that are present, too. There are people who know how to fix things, can give Cyan the exact files needed to fix some of these things, but, Cyan does not, instead pleading "we have no money!" to the people that complain about the bugs. This is all nice and all, there are people in the cavern again.. but.. to be honest, some of those people I didn't really want to see again.

But that's not all, the bickering is happening again, as if nothing had happened inbetween. There was old content, that's now been disabled, too, such as: Male Avatars do not have access to all the clothing they used to, in MOUL, some of these things are still available to female avatars, amusingly.

If this was /any/ other MMO, most of the community would be up in arms about this. We're not. This kinda disappoints me, too.

Uru cannot sustain itself as a 3d Chatroom. It can't.

As for fan ages.. sure, they're planned, but, Cyan wants fan age creators to put their ages directly onto the live shard, /without/ being able to test them. That too is disappointing, and will cause the ages the players get to play to be of lesser quality. Trust me, I've made my own Fan Age, and without being able to test it in-game, it would not be half as good as it is now.

I can't be bothered to even log in, most days. I do my bit, and I donate. Maybe, one day, it'll be "fun" again. But, until that day, I'll be captaining a Starship, and doing missions, and exploring new worlds for The United Federation of Planets, and StarFleet, on the U.S.S. K'veer. And as much as its own community is up in arms about the percieved flaws of that game, Star Trek Online is a brilliant game, and its entertaining me far more than Uru can, right now.

Until things change, I guess that'll be my game of choice.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:50 pm 
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There are so many ideas that we as a community can/have come up with that can make this an amazing experience.

While I was eating my lunch, an idea hit me. Newer computers and technology can't run games like Riven, and are relying on community based projects like Riven X to keep them alive (as a note, I do not know much about the gog.com versions, however those are PC only anyways).

If there was one thing that would entice me the most to play Uru would be the ability to explore some of my favorite ages in 3D freely. I mean, who wouldn't want to explore Riven more than you could already?

Sure, Riven has collapsed, but maybe we could explore what it could have been before the islands split, before Gehn made it his domain. If the age started as a whole island, it opens up a plethora of update options. They could start drifting, the trams could be added, Gehn's inventions can come into play. There is so much on that island that I could picture multiple people willing to explore.

Or what if we had the chance to solve the puzzles of Amateria as a group? Sure you can run Exile on newer PCs, but still... I know I'd love to check that out again!

And if people were turned away by how Uru isn't quite as Mystish as the other Myst titles, maybe this will convince them to stay for the memories.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Well, I'm glad you're donating, and I'm glad you're having fun with Star Trek Online. I must admit that I find almost all your reasoning to be baseless, but honestly that does not change your main point, which is the fact that there is no new content for Uru, some of the bugs at least aren't getting fixed anytime soon, etc. Legitimate problems, even if I don't think you really understand why they are happening. But again, that hardly matters.

Kudos to you, though, for continuing to donate, because at this point that's how Uru's going to get better. It's in the hands of the fans now to sustain it until Cyan can get enough capital to make the next big thing happen. I wish you were still logging in for some of the community happenings (lots of great meetings all the time, like the Students of D'ni Knowledge), but I and I'm sure all the other fans do thank you for your support of our favorite game company.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:56 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
That's not where the disappointment lies. The disappointment is that they were offered help, and have chosen not to take that help. And as a result of that, we have a lesser game experience. The disappointment lies in the /new/ bugs that are present, too. There are people who know how to fix things, can give Cyan the exact files needed to fix some of these things, but, Cyan does not, instead pleading "we have no money!" to the people that complain about the bugs. This is all nice and all, there are people in the cavern again.. but.. to be honest, some of those people I didn't really want to see again.


Excellent point. I'm new to the community, but it seems that up until recently Cyan has been quite reluctant to ask for outside help. It seems however that they are slowly opening up. I can sense a vibe of enthusiasm about MOULa coming from Cyan, and I think they want to set things right this time. I hope they'll have some time to fix the current bugs and maybe throw in some new content (notes, Bahro happenings, DRC members coming in the cavern, things that wouldn't require a lot of time and money). Maybe after Riven for iPhone, since I think that will be a HUGE boost to MOULa.

kaelisebonrai wrote:
But that's not all, the bickering is happening again, as if nothing had happened inbetween. There was old content, that's now been disabled, too, such as: Male Avatars do not have access to all the clothing they used to, in MOUL, some of these things are still available to female avatars, amusingly.


I could care less about clothing. I can access the Ages and it's a whole boatload of fun to me. Uru being online is more important than some piece of clothing missing or not having fireworks in my Relto.

kaelisebonrai wrote:
As for fan ages.. sure, they're planned, but, Cyan wants fan age creators to put their ages directly onto the live shard, /without/ being able to test them. That too is disappointing, and will cause the ages the players get to play to be of lesser quality. Trust me, I've made my own Fan Age, and without being able to test it in-game, it would not be half as good as it is now.


That would mean Cyan is a bunch of amateurs, which they are not. Why wouldn't they test the Ages before releasing them to everyone? There is a reason for the existence of the Guild of Maintainers.

I am glad too that you are supporting Uru and still hanging around. Like you, I am not really bothered to log in most of the week, but on weekends I come and play, 'cause there is a lot of activity. I also have a goal: seeing a Bahro for myself :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:12 pm 
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As for testing fan ages, isn't that the point of having other shards? Which, as I understand it, will be the plan once MOUL OS comes out? You put your fan age on another shard, test it with real people, then submit it to the Cyan shard for "official" status.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:23 pm 
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It's always been my expectation that the guild of maintainers will have a test server. I can't see any age being released to production until it's been through some sort of quality control, whatever shard it's on.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:46 am 
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DocOlanA wrote:
As for testing fan ages, isn't that the point of having other shards? Which, as I understand it, will be the plan once MOUL OS comes out? You put your fan age on another shard, test it with real people, then submit it to the Cyan shard for "official" status.


Have you followed the discussion that the GoW had with Cyan Re: the possibility of releasing the plugin. its old now, since the plugin /was/ released... But, it was suggested that we need server binaries to test the ages the plugin exports, and, basically, we were told that's not going to happen, until later. So, now we are are in the difficult position of having a official plugin, and no way to test the ages exported with it. Not saying Cyan are amateurs, but, they didn't exactly think it through, and generally ignored it when people said "hey, we *need* this for fan ages in moul to work."

The only other option, is to legitiamise Drizzle, convert exported MOUL ages, and test in PotS, which is very much sub-optimal, and, to be honest, I don't see Cyan doing that, either.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Yes. The plugin-in was released so we can accomodate with it. In no way the Ages created with the plug-in will go to the shard without prior testing. Cyan said they're looking at solutions to test the Ages, so I think we'll get something in the next few months.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:22 pm 
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I just wanted to say that I really hope the group of "I WANT IT NOW" can hang in there.... I want it now too:)

Cyan is going as fast as a company can. Money and legal issues always slow down progress in a company. So far with what I have seen Cyan is doing the best they can with the resources they have. I also see many different ways fans can write ages and test them without the fans having servers.... and I am not saying see won't get them, they are just further down the road.

If Cyan had released the fan server first the other half of the community would be asking why the 3dmax plugins weren't released first.... I mean, what's the point in having a fan server if you can't even write your own age to put on it? It's the chicken and the egg. In my opinion we got the egg first.... now we just have to wait for it to hatch. At least now if a fan with 3dmax manages to write an age and Cyan happens to have the money to setup a small test server, we might actually get a fan age into the game.

Small slow steps.
That's all we can expect.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Sudre wrote:

If Cyan had released the fan server first the other half of the community would be asking why the 3dmax plugins weren't released first.... I mean, what's the point in having a fan server if you can't even write your own age to put on it? It's the chicken and the egg. In my opinion we got the egg first.... now we just have to wait for it to hatch. At least now if a fan with 3dmax manages to write an age and Cyan happens to have the money to setup a small test server, we might actually get a fan age into the game.


Except we've been making fan ages for a long time, already. What we /needed/ was server binaries, we could run our own servers, and put our already made ages on them. Test them, then get them to Cyan. *Then* 3ds Max plugin. Cyan also told us that they could pretty much just hand us the plugin right now, so, even if they did have to put actual resources into the server, it would've been not much different. It would /never/ have been "hokay, server, but, gasp, no plugin, so no ages". That's not been an issue for quite some time.

We *need* those servers, if anything of any note is going to happen. Its as simple as that.

I don't "want it NOW"... if that was the case, I wouldn't've spent the last 2 years doing stuff in this community, while others, like yourself, went off and did other things. This is the thing. many of us /stuck around/ for the last 2 years, and have actively done stuff. Yet right now, its as if today is 11th of April 2008, and MOUL only went down for maintencence on April 10th, instead of Uru closing on 10th of April 2008, and MORE was then proposed, then Open Source...

You did know we were told there would be Fan Ages back in 2006? I certainly remember that. You might not, but *I* do. We've got a plugin now, awesome. But we can't really /do/ anything with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:19 pm 
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It seems folks are busy doing more now than before the plugin was released. They're exploring the installation and use of it. Some of these folks are the same ones who eschewed 3ds max as being unobtainable but have somehow made it a priority to obtain it. And they're considering future tools to write that weren't considered before. Each new step will bring things that can't be done until the next step. But rather than thinking about what you don't have yet, try thinking about what you do have and what to do with it. What you have now is more than what you had. It's funny how some folks predict "Cyan will never release so-and-so" but once Cyan does, those folks move on to the next failed prediction.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:30 pm 
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you're putting words into my mouth, again, JWPlatt.

Folks are just more /obviously/ doing more. I'm not convinced that none of these "new" projects would've shown up anyway, with or without plugin. Until we have a way of testing, the plugin is useless.

I'm not saying they won't ever release servers. I'm just going on what they /have/ said. And that's that they don't believe that lack of servers to test is an issue. That's where it stands. Disagree, its up to you, I don't overly care.

People have been coming out of the woodwork, and are going over the same darn ground they were when MOUL closed. Completely ignoring what we've achieved and /done/ in the last two years, by ourselves, without help from Cyan, not that Cyan has helped fan content much in the past, anyways, so, nothing new there. fiery abyss, they almost succeeded in killing it, at one stage. Fan content creators have worked *hard* for the past two years. While many others just disappeared, some of us stuck around, and actually /did/ stuff, kept things alive, in the vacuum of the closure. But, clearly, we're terrible people who want to hurt Uru, and kill it, and know nothing compared to people who completely disappeared for two years, and have come back thinking they know everything that has gone on since MOUL closed. And that's perhaps the biggest disappointment of all. The community is now attacking those that kept the dream alive. I've heard of fellow writers being flamed in the public instances for just being that, Writers.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:32 pm 
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[edited after MODs split the topic]

kaelisebonrai wrote:
People have been coming out of the woodwork, and are going over the same darn ground they were when MOUL closed. Completely ignoring what we've achieved and /done/ in the last two years, by ourselves....

Yes... now that Cyan has the server back up ppl are coming out of the woodwork. There wasn't anything for the majority to do while they waited for Cyan since it's their product. If you'd rather they can all just go away and you can continue on with what you HAD for the last two years.
No one is ignoring you but with that attitude they may start.

kaelisebonrai wrote:
...content creators have worked *hard* for the past two years...While many others just disappeared, some of us stuck around...... clearly, we're terrible people who want to hurt Uru, and kill it, and know nothing compared to people who completely disappeared for two years.....

Sounds like we are seeing your true issue. You stuck around and you resent the people who left and had fun in other places.... it seems that way to me at least.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:39 am 
kaelisebonrai wrote:
The disappointment is that they were offered help, and have chosen not to take that help.


Okay. There's a particular sf and fantasy author, who has produced several doorstop volumes of a bestselling series. (Some of you will know who I mean.) The latest volume is giving him trouble, such that it was due some time ago and isn't finished yet. His fans keep asking about it, and he keeps saying "it'll be done when it's done," or words to that effect.

Now. How would you expect him to react if a group of those fans came to him with their own version of what they think the next volume should be, and invited him to publish that instead? Would you expect him to take that "help"? Especially if it emerged that they had hacked into his computer and stolen some of his notes to help them write it? How about if they invited him to send them the manuscript so that they could "fix" it for him?

The analogy is not precise, but the point is clear, I hope. Please don't be surprised that Cyan are unwilling to be railroaded into open source before they're ready. They will release the binaries when they are ready so to do. They will, if and when they are able, fix the bugs. Impatience is natural, understandable, and I sympathise; we've waited a good long while and it would seem too slow however fast it happened. Taking the moral high ground because they won't let you tell them how to fix their game...well, to me it leaves a nasty aftertaste.


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