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Which way do you think Cyan should accept fan created content and story?
Cyan should only take the best of the best. This being ages approved by fans popularity and by Cyan's personal review. 24%  24%  [ 31 ]
Cyan should take the most popular ages, content, and storylines the fans have deemed to be the best of the best. They should also check to make sure the age doesn't violate any of their canon or rules. 38%  38%  [ 50 ]
Cyan should allow the most popular fan ages, content, and storylines regardless if they break any rules. The fans speak, Cyan should listen. 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Cyan should allow the most popular fan ages, content, and storylines regardless if they break any rules. The fans speak, Cyan should listen. 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Cyan should allow almost all the fan ages, content, and story lines available. They should only leave out ones that are broken or are of truely sub par quality. 14%  14%  [ 18 ]
Cyan should allow all fan content and storylines. If you don't like something, don't visit it. 17%  17%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 131
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:42 pm 
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I think the demographic coming out is very enlightening. Good idea setting this up, BAD. A lot more productive than the arguments we were having before. (And sorry about that to everyone following those threads. I like debate a little too much sometimes.)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:04 pm 
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As has been pointed out a trillion billion times, polls like these are interesting and great fodder for discussion, and they can illustrate tendencies among the people who answer them. But they can never, never, never (a trillion billion times) never, be construed as being a scientific or any other type of sample, and so the results are not representative of anything. BAD knows this well, and I'm 1000% sure it wasn't ever his intent to use the results as anything other than what they are - the results of his poll.

:shock:

Besides, my choice is losing so I have to say all that.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
great fodder for discussion

Canon fodder ... :wink:



My money was on the Panda. :P

Shucks... :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:44 pm 
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I would like to see Cyan go with the second option. Cyan will probably want to show case their creation in a good way with quality content. Whatever they think that might be.

I, like others, think the server/shard operators get to decide what ages they like and fans get to decide which shard they like. I think a testing server like GoW or GoMa may have will likely have everything ever made at some point. How long it may stay on is another matter. So, one server out of all the possible servers having limited content is not an issue for me.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:24 am 
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Zardoz wrote:
As has been pointed out a trillion billion times, polls like these are interesting and great fodder for discussion, and they can illustrate tendencies among the people who answer them. But they can never, never, never (a trillion billion times) never, be construed as being a scientific or any other type of sample, and so the results are not representative of anything. BAD knows this well, and I'm 1000% sure it wasn't ever his intent to use the results as anything other than what they are - the results of his poll.

:shock:

Besides, my choice is losing so I have to say all that.

:evil:


Thank you and same here. :evil:

:wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:07 am 
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I couldn't choose the very last option (and I don't see why anyone else would) since it didn't also exclude Ages that were broken. To me, broken means "could cause my client to crash, or could corrupt the vault."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:42 am 
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Zander_the_Heretic wrote:
Clarification. We are talking exclusively here about what Ages Cyan allows on to its own official server, right? That's assuming Cyan continues to have the resources to run it. It's assumed that there will be other servers where people can do what they will, or what the server admins are willing to let them.

Another missing option:

Cyan should exercise as much or as little control as (a) they want to, and (b) they can. It's up to them, and I have no wish to make unrealistic demands on them, either that they use up resources they need to conserve on keeping their server "pure," or that they throw it open to any old weirdness and throw the backstory out altogether.

That would be my position. I have as much right to say what Cyan "should" do as I have to say what Ages fans "should" Write. Which is to say, none.

Of course that is quite sensible, and probably a majority would agree, but that isn't what the poll was aimed for, I think.

My vote is similar to that one. My opinion is that Cyan should not put *any* fan-made ages on *the* Cyan server. There will be fan-run servers with fan-made content, no doubt, and the cleanest way to avoid headaches (and heartaches) would be to maintain only Cyan-made content on a Cyan-branded server. Of course, Cyan is free to accept fan-made content which pleases Cyan, and content which they would be proud to run alongside their own original content -- and any new content which Cyan might create in the future -- and perhaps such fan-made content should just be officially branded as Cyan-approved if not Cyan-owned. Anything less should be freely accessible on other servers.

Is there an option in the poll for that? I'll pick the first button as closest, but i would omit the clause about content being popular with fans.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:38 am 
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I have to think about this for a little bit before I vote. I've been writing fan fiction (canon/non-canon) for almost 20 years and it is definitely a double edged sword in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:24 am 
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catherwood wrote:
Of course that is quite sensible, and probably a majority would agree, but that isn't what the poll was aimed for, I think.


I take that point, but I think nonetheless that it was a useful corrective to point it out, just as it was useful for Zardoz to point out that as a means of taking the pulse of the community it's not as effective as it might seem. "For entertainment purposes only," as they say on the slot machines. As BAD says, it is what it is, and none the worse for that.

We can talk, and many of us do, including me, about what we'd like to see happen with Uru in an ideal world, and we can get all fired up about our pipe dreams and defend them against all comers, but in the end that's all they are. Uru isn't ours...yet. It is still very very early on Christmas morning, the parcel is still firmly wrapped up under the tree, and we don't get to open it till everyone's awake and we've had a proper breakfast. Or something like that.

Personally, I've laid out what I would like to see in OS Uru many, many, [...] many times, including the earlier comment in this thread.

catherwood wrote:
My opinion is that Cyan should not put *any* fan-made ages on *the* Cyan server.


It's a point of view, certainly. So the Cyan server would remain exactly as it is now, for the foreseeable future (I know I use that phrase a lot, sorry). That would of course be by far the easiest path for Cyan, and would resolve Doc's fears for the preservation of canon. I think you would find that other servers would rapidly become more popular, whether they ran true to canon or not. But that's just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:38 am 
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Well, we're at 80 votes now, and I figured now would be as good a time as any to do a statistical run-down (I'll do another if we break 100.) Of course, any poll has a degree of error, and this is an informal poll. But as we're unlikely to get any better way of measuring the community's opinions...

80 people have voted so far.
84% think that Cyan should provide some regulation of fan ages.
34% think that there should be no regulation based on canon or fan approval.
62% think that Cyan should regulate the ages above and beyond fan popularity.
Over twice as many people chose the most popular option (option two) than chose the second most popular option. The second most popular option is for even stricter regulation.

Again, all polls have a degree of error, and the sample of those who voted may not be representative. However, it is reasonable to assume that this is the best measure of the community's opinions on this issue that we can get.

I would encourage everyone reading this thread who has not yet voted to please vote. The larger the sample size the more accurate the results.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:44 am 
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Any "Fan" key word, should be allowed to express themselves according to their ideas and experiences of what Uru means to them. If it's not your cup pf tea, you don't have to participate in that dream.

Otherwise what use to be a "fan" will become a rebel to the cause of individual freedom of expresssion/disgruntled fan. Not everyone is a Rembrandt, Michealangelo, Keats or Byron. Nobody likes to be told they are not good enough to express their ideas.

(EDIT) After thought: As small as this community still is, popularity rule is still the majority here, but not out there. Unlike other larger communities of gamers which are allowed to create their own individual environments. Hence this community may always remain small, fractured, and run by the loudest voices.

Now can we talk about the growing "popularity" of socialism in the U.S.?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:10 pm 
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DocOlanA wrote:
Well, we're at 80 votes now, and I figured now would be as good a time as any to do a statistical run-down (I'll do another if we break 100.) Of course, any poll has a degree of error, and this is an informal poll. But as we're unlikely to get any better way of measuring the community's opinions...

(snip)

Again, all polls have a degree of error, and the sample of those who voted may not be representative. However, it is reasonable to assume that this is the best measure of the community's opinions on this issue that we can get.

I would encourage everyone reading this thread who has not yet voted to please vote. The larger the sample size the more accurate the results.


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No and No and No and No. I will be like that mosquito in your room, that buzzes incessantly, but you can never quite squash it. Polls conducted in this forum will always have an unknown but likely huge amount of both error and, more importantly, bias. They violate so many conditions of scientific sampling that my brain hurts.

Instead, as the authoritative pollster Zander notes:

Zander_the_Heretic wrote:
Disclaimer: this poll is for entertainment purposes only, does not commit you to anything and will not remove stubborn stains. Void where there is no matter. Matter where there is no void.


So please, let's have fun with this poll, let we whose choices are losing moan and whine, but let's not delude ourselves into believing that these results will remove stubborn stains.

P.S. If you have the fortitude, revisit the debates about whether the DRC liaison election results represented the "community." I never suggested they did, but instead argued they were merely one way to create legitimacy for a choice we were forced to make by Cyan. And as for the 80 or so people who have voted here, I would suggest you visit this thread, which describes the extent to which we attempted to get the "community" involved. I would point you to other discussions, but they are in the DRC Liaison Election Discussions forum on the DRC site, and Cyan, the bastion of Great Fan Support, has blocked access to that part of the "canon."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:49 pm 
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So... you mean exactly like I said? Calm down, Zardoz, no one's deciding national policy. It's an informal poll on a website that is only going to catch the feelings of those people who actually feel like responding who actually notice the thread who actually regularly visit the forums.

It's just likely we're not going to get any better indicator of public opinion. It is an imperfect universe that way. I do find the fact that the poll isn't really close at all quite interesting, though.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:12 pm 
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DocOlanA wrote:
It's an informal poll on a website that is only going to catch the feelings of those people who actually feel like responding who actually notice the thread who actually regularly visit the forums.


And who can find a response they agree with.

DocOlanA wrote:
It's just likely we're not going to get any better indicator of public opinion. It is an imperfect universe that way. I do find the fact that the poll isn't really close at all quite interesting, though.


Interesting, certainly.

A better indicator of public opinion will be which shards get visited when there are shards to visit. Till then, we're forming opinions about something that hasn't happened yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:21 pm 
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For their polls, Gallup's sample sizes range from 1000-2000 people - out of 307 million Americans[1], or .0003 - .0007 %. They use both random and non-random selection techniques, and they assert that this is an adequate representation of the opinions of the American people [2].

Compare this to the 80 votes so far, out of the 18,500 registered accounts on MOULa (or .4 %).

*me waits for the mosquito to return*

---

References

[1] Google's Public Data - Population of US as of July 2009
[2] The Gallup Poll - FAQ

---

[EDIT] Oh, and my vote is losing as well. :(

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