Other worlds

Grogyan · **Posted:** Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:06 am

Had been thinking about this. While its nice to see D'ni style ages and gardens, but i'd personally like to know how everyone else would like to see an evolution in Ages.

I mean Ages that you touch a PC with instead of a book that links you to an Age populated alien tech or on some derelect space ship or space station.

The premise being that scientists today manage to replicate D'ni linking through a PC terminal instead of linking books, the first Ages they link to (Relto as a back up way to get back home) are reminiscent of what you may see in other sci fi video games like Unreal Tournament, Half like, Halo, Command and conquer, etc etc.

Dachannien · **Joined:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:48 am **Posts:** 216

Can't I say all of the above?

Ahlehn · **Posted:** Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:51 pm

Eh, that's going a bit far... Starting to get into territory ripped from the pages of Shin Megami Tensei (using computers to automate the rituals to summon demons

)

I think the Art will remain to be written. I'm fairly sure you need a special book to write an age anyway. As for the types of ages, all of the above. I'd LOVE more astronomy ages. I managed to get a hold of a linking book to Todelmer for a short while... Don't ask how... I didn't stay as long as I'd have liked, but I was floored at it's beauty (still curious how the D'ni got that pod up there...)

Zander_the_Heretic · **Joined:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am **Posts:** 278

Grogyan wrote:

Had been thinking about this. While its nice to see D'ni style ages and gardens, but i'd personally like to know how everyone else would like to see an evolution in Ages.

I mean Ages that you touch a PC with instead of a book that links you to an Age populated alien tech or on some derelect space ship or space station.

The premise being that scientists today manage to replicate D'ni linking through a PC terminal instead of linking books, the first Ages they link to (Relto as a back up way to get back home) are reminiscent of what you may see in other sci fi video games like Unreal Tournament, Half like, Halo, Command and conquer, etc etc.

No, you lost me. I would like to see different kinds of Age, but I would lose interest in Uru completely if the nature of the Art were compromised in that way. And while I'm sure those other games are very fine, they leave me cold.

Sensei · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:33 am

If you want anything high-tech, I'd add more DRC stuff. Keep D'ni technology like it is. There must be SOME reason they haven't made a book going to "somewhere with all the technology and undamaged user manuals ever" and just started waging their wars with mind-lasers instead of swords and primitive cannons, or built climate control in their cavern houses.

Now, it wouldn't really fit with the DRC, but if they started shipping in jeeps, mining equipment, maybe even guns, etc you have an excuse for a strong juxtapositional style, with crumbling ancient structures held up by modern metal supports.

And there's plenty of room, as we've seen, for the D'ni to be nearly outright steampunk (Noloben space pod anyone?)

But whatever you make, have a good explanation.

Ahlehn · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:59 am

Sensei wrote:

And there's plenty of room, as we've seen, for the D'ni to be nearly outright steampunk (Noloben space pod anyone?)

Todelmer. Not Nobolen

Grogyan · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:51 am

While I like the DRC to be involved, i'd also like them to not be around.
The idea is that as fork in the road, the cavern has been open for many years, the book linking technology has breached the digital divide, sorta like the stargate in SG1 vs the stargate in Atlanis is digital over analog dialing to do the same job.

Its only an idea, if and when I can get back into Age writing and just doing something completely different story wise.

While a lot of people are purists of the Art, i'd like to think of the Art as being the analog of transporting you to whereever you can describe.
I like being modern, keeping up with the tech, and story wise it could be done, you could find a D'ni family in an Age that you link to via digital means, the family asks how you got here without book to get here. The ideas for stories are boundless and not restriced by certain rules.

Its my idea and my idea alone to let Cyan have their DRC/Yeesha/D'ni stories and unwritten sub stories, and maybe have some of the GoW branch off to new possibilities.

Being a digital medium, now (example) you can link with you heavy machinery to fix up those old machines created by some lost civilzation, now we write the future and et the DRC handle the past.

aloys · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:50 am

Grogyan wrote:

While a lot of people are purists of the Art, i'd like to think of the Art as being the analog of transporting you to whereever you can describe.

Pretty much. Books can take you to all kinds of worlds containing all kinds of civilizations and technologies. If we have a cold scientific look at the Art it's just a transportation mean which can take you anywhere as long as you know how to ask where you want to go. If you go in this direction the D'ni-verse can really take you anywhere... Thankfully Uru and the Myst series keep a certain style coherence and evolve within certain limits. Although it could theoretically happen I wouldn't want to see Aliens or Predators in my Uru Ages.. The Todelmer Pod is about as 'out-there' as I would expect it to go.. And even then it fits very nicely with the rest of the series.. After all Myst island did include a spaceship, but it was of a certain style and a certain level of technology.

Any departure from these limits would be a real 'spin-off' or a 'what if' scenario. (although it could indeed make for an interesting 'fanfiction)

Zander_the_Heretic · **Joined:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am **Posts:** 278

aloys wrote:

If we have a cold scientific look at the Art it's just a transportation mean

I prefer to be less reductionist.

The Art is a means by which ideas in someone's head can be rendered visible, tangible and real. It's creativity in its highest form (and this is true whether actual "creation" takes place or not). It's inspiration made into substance. It's poetry in the truest meaning of the original word ("poet" comes from the Greek word meaning "maker"). If you believe in a creator deity such as Yahvo, it's both a priceless gift and a gesture of supreme trust.

Just a means of transportation? I think not.

aloys · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:21 am

That's why I mentionned a cold scientific look.

Bogus · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Zander_the_Heretic wrote:

I prefer to be less reductionist.

The Art is a means by which ideas in someone's head can be rendered visible, tangible and real. It's creativity in its highest form (and this is true whether actual "creation" takes place or not). It's inspiration made into substance. It's poetry in the truest meaning of the original word ("poet" comes from the Greek word meaning "maker"). If you believe in a creator deity such as Yahvo, it's both a priceless gift and a gesture of supreme trust.

Just a means of transportation? I think not.

I couldn't agree more with this comment. The Art is that..ART. It is a mixture of both artistic expression through writing, with the calculated functions and equations of science and mathamatics. The prospect of the Art as a form of transporting through computers makes little sense, simply because there is a very specific formula for being able to link. The way the pages are made, the way the ink is made, all of that is necessary to link. It is also a concept of D'ni society in general. The slow, calculated and meticulous crafting that is needed to make the books. It's a symbol of their pride, their drive and their desire to make something beautiful and great, even though they continue to CHOOSE to live in the cavern itself.

Sudre · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 pm

There is so much that stuff like this thread gets started in my head.. I ended up on a tangent about how to get metal equipment to link... can bacteria link? or is it only sentient life forms. How does the link categorize life and why? Basically if a bacteria can be linked then you may find a bacteria that can saturate metal but doesn't damage it too adversely. Then would be able to get metal to link since the bacteria in large enough saturation of the metal will actually be doing the linking and the metal would be coming along because of the attachment.... methods similar to linking a Terminator could be used too. Can viruses link?

I like the digital idea. Even if it's not our tech there is no reason that some world would not be found with a civilization that has a much higher grasp of quantum physics and string theory than us.... not that I'm saying it's impossible for humans to figure it out. Maybe the bahro symbol that prevents linking just causes the strings in the effect area to become a little more stable/rigid thus making it more difficult for a link between universes to occur. If a computer could scan this symbol and/or a person could understand this symbol on the quantum level it might make it possible to do the reverse which would lead to spontaneous linking. More research and one may be able to control the destination of the spontaneous link..... I guess it'd be a really bad thing to spontaneous link to a random place considering that probably 99.9% of the possible places in a multi-verse are not exactly good for our life form. That said the link may still be limited to living things only. That'd be one way to sterilize a lab, spontaneously link everything out (anyone seen the cat? :shock:

)

Heck this sound exactly like what Yeesha and the Bahro do on an analog level.

What defines life? Is a Data type character (oh-NO Star Trek reference) a life form?

ok, I'm heading for rambling....

Nalates · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:05 pm

If possible I would vote for the first two choices.

One of the more popular aspects of new games is a players ability to change the environment and affect story. As current day explorers we will be there with todays tech and motivations. We would make changes.

I think treating D'ni ages like an archeological dig is unrealistic. When was the last time they uncovered a large rotating building? Working machinery equaling or surpassing our tech? Its never happened. So, much of what we will do has to be imagined.

We have always found civilizations with older less useful technology. Things that are more curiosity than something to improve our lives. If a archeologist were to find a new free energy source governments and entrepreneurs would be all over it. Everyone would want part of it. The place would change.

Since the Art is a means of creating new real estate it would be studied and exploited. New ages would likely be treated like newly discovered lands. There would be explorers that want to preserve the culture, assimilate it into our own, assimilate into it, use it, preserve it, ... just like we see people creating new ages and talking about them (the game) now.

It is not going to be an issue of whether we learn to write ages or not. The Art parallels what Cyan was doing with their computers. Now that Uru is going open source, however that ends up looking, the Art is out of the bag. Others are writing ages. In playing U-r-u I see no sense in trying to tell age writers they must pretend every age is a discovery of something that existed and was created by the D'ni (Cyan) 200 or more years ago. That is a great frame for creating the game. I think it is the frame that most want to see continued. However Crux Isle is an interesting story and puzzle tied to 'a call to Uru' as one explores, is lost and others go in search of them (that is a loose interpretation from what I know of it now).

aloys · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:45 pm

Nalates wrote:

Since the Art is a means of creating new real estate it would be studied and exploited. New ages would likely be treated like newly discovered lands. There would be explorers that want to preserve the culture, assimilate it into our own, assimilate into it, use it, preserve it, ...

You have a very positive view of humanity.

There are litterally unlimited Ages, and each one can lead to anything you can write.. Theoretically the Art offers access to virtually unlimited ressources, materials, energy.. (and I'm only naming the most basic potential ressources of an Age). If you just need to write a single book to 'create' a whole planet that can provide endless amount of gold, diamonds, even slaves potentially, someone will abuse that power eventually.
Look at what happened in Africa and then in America. Why would it be different with D'ni? Obviously humanity has progressed quite a bit ethically since those dark days, but the power (and thus the tentation) is much much bigger here...
If D'ni was real and had been discovered in New Mexico, you can be 99.9% sure that humanity would have shown its darkest face and wars would have been started to control the power offered by the D'ni Books..

Grogyan · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:59 pm

aloys wrote:

If D'ni was real and had been discovered in New Mexico, you can be 99.9% sure that humanity would have shown its darkest face and wars would have been started to control the power offered by the D'ni Books..

Secret government projects would have started to reverse engineer the Art into a digital form, Rusia, USA and China all vowing to be the first to develop such medium, wars would be started, and the normal strand of humanity would destroy.

There are so many old secret government projects, more today that we don't know about.

bogus wrote:

The Art is that..ART. It is a mixture of both artistic expression through writing, with the calculated functions and equations of science and mathamatics. The prospect of the Art as a form of transporting through computers makes little sense, simply because there is a very specific formula for being able to link. The way the pages are made, the way the ink is made, all of that is necessary to link. It is also a concept of D'ni society in general. The slow, calculated and meticulous crafting that is needed to make the books. It's a symbol of their pride, their drive and their desire to make something beautiful and great, even though they continue to CHOOSE to live in the cavern itself.

The Art with making paper, ink and the act of writing sounds like the artwork of the renaisance period where there was no other method to put ideas onto paper.
Today we use Art programs like PhotoShop to draw onto a digital canvas, and computers are perfect at dealing with emmensly complex equations, its not implausable.

aloys wrote:

Thankfully Uru and the Myst series keep a certain style coherence and evolve within certain limits. Although it could theoretically happen I wouldn't want to see Aliens or Predators in my Uru Ages.. The Todelmer Pod is about as 'out-there' as I would expect it to go

We got aliens and predators in our Ages, there is that creature in Gahreesen, and I think its unrealistic to expect that every Age we link to doesn't have aliens sentient or not (Bahro as sentient), predators and prey are norm for life, its worked out amazingly well on earth for well over 200 million years.

If 99.999 percent of people (likely to happen) choose to only go the continual path of the book type linking process, thats fine, and the debate will end in this discussion, i'm just working out how well it would be recieved or if anyone would visit such an Age that doesn't use a book (Relto will still be needed).

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