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What would you like Cyan to do about open source Uru?
I'd like Cyan to move towards releasing open source Uru as quickly as possible, so that my friends and I can get on with making online Ages. 35%  35%  [ 28 ]
I'd like Cyan to move towards releasing open source Uru, but not too fast. There are many things that need to be sorted out first, and I'd prefer them to get it right rather than rush. 39%  39%  [ 31 ]
I'd like Cyan to wait until they have the resources in place to monitor their server properly before they release open source Uru. I'd hate to see any poor quality or non-canon Ages slip through the net. 16%  16%  [ 13 ]
I'd prefer it if Cyan didn't release open source Uru at all. I'm happy to wait till they have new material to add to the game, however long it takes. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
I'm not bothered. I have the offline game and other pursuits, and now MOULagain. I'm happy. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
I don't understand why you're asking these questions. Are you with the government? Is this an ongoing investigation? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I found a subway token in my pocket, and this was odd because I have never used the subway. What should I do? 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
None of the above: I will tell you what I think in comments. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 79
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:41 am 
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Okay, in the spirit of informal polling, I'm going to test the waters a bit myself, and try to keep the options as inclusive as possible. If I've left one out, though, please let me know in comments.

Disclaimer: this poll is for entertainment purposes only, does not commit you to anything and will not remove stubborn stains. Void where there is no matter. Matter where there is no void.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:55 am 
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I voted for the second. Maybe I just don't understand why people are so impatient about OS because I have not spent the last 4 years developing my own ages... :-) Still, there's so much tension right now about fan-created content, that I think Cyan needs to do this right, either setting up a new Nexus for fan-made Ages, explaining better the role of Mantainers and Cartographers (and Archivistst), or whatever they think is best. Even if they decide to give up any kind of control, we need some more guidance in how to do this. Otherwise, OS Uru could lead to even more conflict in the community.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:45 pm 
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I think some of the choices don't really make any sense. And I'm not just talking about the jokes. Cyan already has the "resources" to monitor their own server. From what I understand, all they have to do is not put any more ages in. It's their server, and it's not like adding new ages will be automatic (at least, I'd be very surprised if it was automatic by default. Ideally an individual server could choose whether there's an automatic process or not.)

What may take time is for them to gather the resources to actually review and add new ages to their server. But it's not as if the release of MOUL OS will keep them from having control of their own server.

EDIT: Incidentally I voted for the first option. I'm really looking forward to fan created ages, and even if it takes a while for them to get to the main server I'd love for them to find some outlet.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:07 pm 
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You do enjoy debate, don't you, Doc? I don't. Not even masochistically.

When I use the word "monitor" in the poll option, as should be obvious, I mean "monitor" in the sense of being able to look at potential new Ages in depth and detail, test, review, check for canonicity, as you concede in your second paragraph. The sort of thing you have said you want them, or somebody, to be able to do before they put a single fan Age on their server, the sort of thing that if they can't even fix something like the Minkata sparklie they certainly are unable to do at this present moment. Yes, they opened the gallery doors, and that was very nice, but I'm theorising that it will be a long while before the next small improvement.

They could, as you say, simply leave their server as it is, but that would be not so much monitoring as not doing anything. And if they did allow fan-run servers with fan-created Ages on them to run parallel with their own unchanging MOULagain server, I think the latter wiould be empty within a very short period. So I don't think that would be a good idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:18 pm 
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So after this "short debate" we go back on topic. :wink:


Last edited by veralun on Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Quote:
I'd like Cyan to move towards releasing open source Uru as quickly as possible, so that my friends and I can get on with making online Ages.
I'd like Cyan to move towards releasing open source Uru, but not too fast. There are many things that need to be sorted out first, and I'd prefer them to get it right rather than rush.
I'd like Cyan to wait until they have the resources in place to monitor their server properly before they release open source Uru. I'd hate to see any poor quality or non-canon Ages slip through the net.
I'd prefer it if Cyan didn't release open source Uru at all. I'm happy to wait till they have new material to add to the game, however long it takes.


These options all appear to imply a relation between open sourcing Uru and allowing explorer ages. Explorer ages were going to happen in MORE, which was announced before open sourcing and therefore clearly unrelated. Moreover, Chogon released their 3ds max plug-in binaries, which allow creation of explorer ages despite no source of the Uru client or server being available. While there's currently no clearly-defined process for (and much less an actual means of) publishing, even that has been in development with things such as the FCAL.

Both open sourcing the client and server code and the possibility explorer ages are interesting prospect, and have in common that they give inclined fans more abilities to for expansion, customization and improvement, but it appears to me that you're asking about fan ages, and not at all about open source.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Dupe.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:50 pm 
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My understanding is that the plug-in Chogon released is for a version of 3Ds Max that is completely defunct and unobtainable legally, which with his injunction not to use it on illegal copies renders it useless unless you already happen to possess that version. And that, regardless of what may have been planned for previously projected versions of online Uru, the only way for explorers to Write Ages and publish them on an online server that has been authorised by Cyan is through the release of slightly more workable tools for doing so, said release forming part of the process of creating open source Uru.

What anyone else may be doing is entirely their affair. As I understand it, when open source Uru happens, there will be the possibility of publishing Ages online on either the official Cyan server, or alternatively on fan-run servers with Cyan's blessing, or both. So from my perspective the two things are linked, and that is the basis on which I constructed the poll.

And I am nobody's dupe, thank you. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:06 am 
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I voted for the second option, but since you bring it up, what *should* I do with this subway token in my pocket? My local mass transit system uses RFID-based cards.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:56 pm 
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I had to vote for the first option mainly because what we have right now in the game is it. There is nothing more Cyan or anyone else will be adding to it without OS. In a year or so I will become bored with it and move on... many others will probably not hold out that long and most new players will be done within a few months or less. There will always be the die hard fans (nothing wrong with them at all they keep URU alive) that will hang around even after the bitter end.

In my opinion, "releasing open source Uru as quickly as possible" means, "to get it right"... so I took the second poll option as Cyan should drag their feet to make sure the fans have brought up all possible comments about how they(fans) want it done. I guess my question is, what needs to be sorted out? Cyan already knows what Cyan wants to do, so they can move forward.

The third option..... Fans aren't going to be releasing ages about Cyan content. The rules clearly stated here basically say Fans will be writing their own content about their own events. If these are D'ni events then they have to be completely detached from Cyan's D'ni events so there is no way to break the cannons:) OS is on the software to the game not the intellectual property of Cyan's story. As far as good or bad ages go.. well they might as well get rid of the PODs then because I don't like them... I mean if we are going to grade that way, might as well be fair. Point is who's rules do we judge by. I also don't think anyone is going to publicly release an age that isn't finished or crashes the game... if they did most ppl would stop visiting that fan server unless they were age testers.

I don't even get option 4 to be honest. Someone must not have read RAWA's post....Setting Expectations If we follow this option there will be no change to where we are now. There will never be any new content.


It was my thought that all players would log into Cyan's Server and then move on to the Fan server from there thru a new Nexus or whatever. With this option, Fan servers that don't play by the simple rules of Don't Violate Cyan's Story Elements can be dropped from the server list leaving no way for ppl to get to them without hacking and you can't stop hacking either way. OS does not have to include the Client. The client currently ONLY points to Cyan's server when the game starts. It can always stay that way. I don't think Cyan has officially said what is going to be OS'd or how the players will access this new content and servers... have they?
There are three things that can be OS'd
A) Age writing plug'ns. (which is all that's needed to write ages which is what most want)
B) Server code (which is what some want to host their own server but not required for fan ages.Some may try and say otherwise but it's not)
C) Client code (which is not needed at all. Some may try and say otherwise but it's not)

So when I say move forward with OS as soon and as quickly as possible I mean scenario A. It appears this is what Cyan is doing.
B can wait. If the fans crank out an age Cyan can put up a small test server. You don't need a bank of 50 computers for 20 people to test and tweak an age. You just need 1 server.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:35 pm 
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It was my thought that all players would log into Cyan's Server
Which one? Authentication, file or game?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:32 pm 
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I chose option #1, as it's my preferred action, although not for the reason given.

I'd like Cyan to move towards releasing open source Uru as quickly as possible, so that we can make a start on fixing the bugs and adding features.

Anyone expecting open source to unleash a wave of new content (particularly single-player content) is likely to be disappointed. Even for a professional development team, it can take months of work to add an hour's worth of gameplay, and it's likely to be worse for an amateur effort.

Anyone who's going to stick around is going to do so for the social aspects. For that, we need better chat, better messaging, more games.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:10 pm 
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Rusty_Russell wrote:
Which one? Authentication, file or game?

Which ever one would do the trick :-)
I would just like to see some kinda basic switch that will give Cyan some control over the only rule they seem to want.. and that's control over their intellectual property as far as Cyan's story. I don't expect to be able to go to any fan server and find Teledahn completely remodeled without Cyan first giving their approval... so if I went to a fan server and found Telly completely remodeled I'd know it's canon because it couldn't be done any other way.... if that makes sense.

Again.. this is just my thoughts on the matter. We fans can have fun debating it all day. Cyan probably knows how they want it to work and they will be doing it their way.

Keikoku has another good point, it would be great to get the fans working on these kinds of maintenance and beautification projects. Large cities die on the vine without them. I imagine that virtual worlds fall by the same fate.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:20 am 
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I adore how one person voted for the subway token option! I feel that is a political statement of how the US (especially New Mexico) does not have enough public transportation.

Cyan will either release the code, or they won't. After everything else, I do not see them creating any expansions themselves.

My only real question is...where and how would we link to the fan written ages?
Will we get more books in our relto bookshelf?
Will there be a link from someplace like the library or the museum?
Or will there be a special place created? For instance, a new link added on the docks in the city....and that goes to someplace that looks like the watchers pub, called maybe the link book pub, and there we would find links to all the new places that get written.

OR, will there be no linking connection to Uru Live at all? :shock:
Would we download these new fan written ages, and play them offline???

Sorry for the digression, Zander.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:51 am 
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Option #1. Anything else is delaying Open Source and keeping Cyan under the burden of Uru development. The sooner I and others can begin helping out, the better for Cyan and Uru.

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