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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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EdOscuro wrote:
Players aren't the game creators


Actually the players are creating the game right now and often have as much knowledge of the intricacies of Uru as some of its creators. That's why my opinion is that, while there should be some rules about the use of bots, I see no need to ban them altogether and think they are instead a great opportunity. If we use the "but some of them will be crap" reasoning, then we might as well ban fan content altogether. Yes, some things will not be as good as others, but then not even Cyan always stands up to its standard of excellency (I'm looking at you, surface of Dereno).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:55 pm 
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IanWatson wrote:
A solution presents itself: if an avatar is flagged as a bot, it should appear semi-transparent and covered in static, like Yeesha's hologram in the Cleft.


I wouldn't like to see that, because a bot is not Yeesha, or Atrus, or any other pre-recorded appearance with whom you cannot interact.

Can't you just make them a t-shirt?! :P


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Ian Atrus wrote:
EdOscuro wrote:
Players aren't the game creators


Actually the players are creating the game right now and often have as much knowledge of the intricacies of Uru as some of its creators. That's why my opinion is that, while there should be some rules about the use of bots, I see no need to ban them altogether and think they are instead a great opportunity. If we use the "but some of them will be crap" reasoning, then we might as well ban fan content altogether. Yes, some things will not be as good as others, but then not even Cyan always stands up to its standard of excellency (I'm looking at you, surface of Dereno).

First, I'm not calling for anything to be banned. I'm just pointing out that I think if these bots are implemented wrongly they can ruin the game - certainly they present opportunities for griefers who have happily not been a major part of the game thus far. Even with good intentions, they can have some of the bad effects I've theorized could happen.

Second, there's a difference between something which is easily avoided by virtue of its being available in a set location and which does not normally interfere with the game world - you can avoid marker games, you can avoid any specific Age if you wish (even Gahreesen; you just won't be able to do everything), you can avoid specific neighborhoods; it's harder to avoid bots all over the public spaces.

Finally, there's a difference between knowing lore and technical aspects, and overall game design. (Then there's the whole tendency to treat the result of a minor poll as being of cardinal importance but I'll leave that alone.)

This whole "wouldn't it be nice if we had X" is too often done as if there is no intersection with the game's design.

People have also said, many times, that it would be nice if Mario had a gun (ahh, the N64 days). If that happens it's not Super Mario Brothers anymore. That's an extreme example but we really ought to be aware of what we're adding and what we're taking away from the game with any features. Making NPC characters or scripting / macroing Explorers is, as far as I can tell, actually redundant since we have viewers and the like (maybe not where we'd like them but Cyan was wise to put up some limits on how much we could modify their Ages). Scripts or macros make it just that bit easier to coast on autopilot.

I'm not calling for Cyan to banish anything; that's up to them, but I wouldn't be surprised to see code for a pellet timer show up. Somebody else will make a pod clock, and somebody else will make Ahnonay's walls transparent and add a compass. If somebody wants to ruin the game for themselves that's not my business, and obviously I doubt such things would be hosted on the official source tree (unless for assisting writers or maintainers).

But some of these innovations will intrude, like the ability to look up any name in the Vault (I guess) and certainly bots could be intrusive if implemented without considering gameplay.

Anyhow, my vote is still that bots should be holograms (since it's known D'ni technology) but that players can activate or deactivate them like marker games. I also would discourage anybody from scripting their Explorer avatar to do things while they're not around; I know Uru isn't a competition but if somebody has a virtual kiosk that kind of takes away from the need to have collaborative stuff. I wonder if it would be possible to have a bot serve as a virtual buddy for solving a couple Path of the Shell puzzles, for instance...that's kind of anathema to the idea of those areas.

adi wrote:
IanWatson wrote:
A solution presents itself: if an avatar is flagged as a bot, it should appear semi-transparent and covered in static, like Yeesha's hologram in the Cleft.


I wouldn't like to see that, because a bot is not Yeesha, or Atrus, or any other pre-recorded appearance with whom you cannot interact.

Can't you just make them a t-shirt?! :P

A flying t-shirt, now there's an image.

Anyhow, yes, you do interact with the Yeesha hologram. Not a lot, but it's there. You interact with Zandi. Atrus isn't in this game but his appearance in another game seemed a bit interactive in the same way Zandi is.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:10 am 
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Oh please, I want code for a pellet timer!

Yeah, that's me.

I don't want griefing, but I'm all for opening Uru up. That's why I want multiple servers.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:54 am 
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mszv wrote:
Oh please, I want code for a pellet timer!

Yeah, that's me.

I don't want griefing, but I'm all for opening Uru up. That's why I want multiple servers.


OHBot can already calculate pellet recipes and predict the outcomes providing expected KI points and cook time. An option to set a timer and get a reminder that your pellets are done is coming soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:23 am 
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Any chance we can get that kitchen sink in stainless steel? :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:24 am 
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OHB wrote:
mszv wrote:
Oh please, I want code for a pellet timer!

Yeah, that's me.

I don't want griefing, but I'm all for opening Uru up. That's why I want multiple servers.


OHBot can already calculate pellet recipes and predict the outcomes providing expected KI points and cook time. An option to set a timer and get a reminder that your pellets are done is coming soon.

Ehh, I have to admit it beats screwing around with this cheap LCD clock I have next to my monitor...

In other news, I think that calling for multiple servers is a bit ahead of the game when the current one is still overloaded. I don't want to sink the game. I just would hope that things that are not part of "vanilla Uru" that could impact my game experience can more or less be controlled from my client. Hence my call for switching on/off visibility of player holograms. That way, people who don't appreciate the ancient wisdom of Uru can have their shinies (and more importantly create new inventions without the threat of an immediate and unnecessary backlash), and I can play the game as it was intended.[/fightinwords] :wink:

semplerfi wrote:
Any chance we can get that kitchen sink in stainless steel? :wink: :lol:

Is any D'ni tech stainless? :lol:


Last edited by Ed Oscuro on Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:34 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
That way, people who don't appreciate the ancient wisdom of Uru can have their shinies, and I can play the game as it was intended.[/fightinwords] :wink:


OHBJECTION! Logical fallacy.

I want to play the game as it was intended...and vote 'no' on holograms. OHBot isn't d'ni tech...it's human tech. No different than bringing a laptop into the cavern with you so you can log your explorations...except my laptop has arms and legs and is teh rawk.

semplerfi wrote:
Any chance we can get that kitchen sink in stainless steel? :wink: :lol:


LULZ

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