Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
Whilyam -- I agree we need somewhat objective criteria for evaluating patches. I don't agree that they should be your criteria. Again, Cyan's guidelines will do fine.
How? Explain how Cyan's guidelines would work when viewed against the community's history. I can save you time and say they won't. As one of the former Liaison candidates, I can explain in great detail the mind-numbing stupidity this community shows when given the chance. The violation of their own interests.
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Off topic, stop abusing the word "strawman" to describe our examples of what you are proposing. You have said "anything legal and stable should be accepted." I said "why not have a flight simulator" and DarK said "why not have a 2 hour Pi calculation before linking to Relto." And you said "Instead of admitting your strawman, you still think it's okay to use it as an argumentative crutch." Yes, yes I do. Because all the examples that people are throwing at you fit into your criteria. A straw man is something which is not representative of your argument, but these are -- it's not hard to find ridiculous proposals which fit your criteria because your criteria is pathetically weak. If your response to them is, "pff, well obviously we couldn't allow a 2 hour wait time. That would be silly." That is NOT a valid response given that you are saying there should be no subjectivity involved, only whether the patches correspond to the letter of your criteria. Either a) your criteria is wrong, and it must be changed to rule out our "silly strawmen". Or b) you are allowing yourself to use subjectivity in judging our ideas, and therefore you can't say it's a clear-cut decision.
Please read.
The 2-hour wait time violates the ToS because it:
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...interferes with another user's use and enjoyment
of the Service or any other individual's use and enjoyment of the Service...
Now for your other issues.
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- Ki feature which lets me immediately spawn into any player's Age instance by name (without an invite).
Violation of the ToS: "* Any content or use that tries to gain unauthorized access to the Service" AND
"* Any content or use that harasses or advocates harassment of another person;"
Of course, admins can already do this, but that's another issue.
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- A new journal in the city written by Atrus detailing how he in fact enslaved the Bahro to build the devices on his many Ages.
Potential violation of the ToS: "* Any content that infringes upon or violates any third party's rights, including
but not limited to, intellectual property rights..."
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- An imager in the city which streams random YouTube videos to anybody who walks past.
No violation: Unless that streaming slows down the game (which I believe it would) in which case it would fall under the interfering with enjoyment bit of the ToS.
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All of these features are extremely distruptive to other player's play experience and/or their perception of the existing Cyan story. They are allowed by your rules because they don't crash the game or break the law (and thus they are not "straw men"), but they are vigorously prohibited by RAWA's rules.
All of these issues either are violations of the Terms of Service and thus not allowed or potential violations. Also, there's the third rule I proposed "Is it optional?". That rule would ban all of these since they are not optional (but the ToS violations on most of these would end those).
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I don't know why people are saying "nobody cares about canon". (See the "do you care about canon" thread.)
And with that, you lost any credibility you might have had. You actually cited a poll on a forum as evidence.
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But I'm sure that nearly every single Myst player (both here, and in other forums) would draw the line much more conservatively than you.
And you continue the tradition of the paranoid trying to make it sound like they're the majority.
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I dread a day, a year or two from now, when I link into the city to see people in flying cars overhead, running around the city firing laser blasts at each other, transforming into Bahro, and if I open up my Ki screen I see the front page of Yahoo with scrolling news updates.
And you shamelessly exploit people's fears with outlandish nonsense that would not be allowed under my three rules (I kept optional out of my recaps because the motto is "Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité." However, it could work as: legality, stability, optionality. "légalité, stabilité, optionalité"
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Cyan never asked us to come up with criteria. Cyan asked us to come up with a process for getting patches into Uru. RAWA/Cyan have already given us criteria. It has served the Guild of Writers (which I believe you are in) well. They apply to game patches just as much (if not moreso) than fan Ages.
The process includes the criteria. Also, RAWA's criteria were 1: meant for Ages only. 2: temporary.
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Lastly, Whil, you are still conflating core game features with add-ons/mods. I agree that an add-on system is desirable. Once it's in place, I don't give a hoot what add-ons you come up with, as long as they are not installed by default, AND they do not impact my gameplay experience (i.e., I can't tell if you have them switched on or not; i.e., a mod which lets you fly around the city is a no-no). Add-ons are fine. Please let's limit this debate to deciding what goes into the core game engine -- i.e., things that all players will be experiencing without any customization.
That is the core game feature that needs to be implemented. Add-on system, then everything else. Also, for the flying, a simple solution would be to have people who activate flying go invisible.