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 Post subject: The KI source
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Hi all,

We are making the python and 3ds Max source files for the KI available.
You can get them at KI-887.zip

I tried to gather what was needed to to compile the python sources and export the KI max file. If I forgot something that prevents work on the KI then post here and I'll see if I can find it or at the least provide a stub.

I *know* there are a lot of suggestions for fixing and improving the KI (I can't wait to see them in game!) Please put your suggestions in a separate thread and leave this thread about the KI source. And I will start another thread on how changes can be submitted to Cyan.

Thanks,
Chogon


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Wow, thanks!

There are two things I noticed:
1) When opening the xKIGUI.max file, it gives errors regarding a number of textures it expects in c:\Parable\Assetman
Just copying the available .tga files to that folder doesn't seem to cut it.
The files it still misses (after copying the files inculded to the folder mentioned above) are:
  • xPlayerGUIComponents.tga
  • xPlayerGUIComponents2.tga
  • xBBClothGui.tga
  • xYeeshaBookOpen.tga
  • nb01ImagerNoiseMask.tga
  • xKIPictureThumbnail.tga
  • xMiniKIwMarkers.tga
  • xMiniKIFace.tga
  • xMiniKIFaceHI.tga
  • electric ball.TGA
  • white.tga
  • xAvatarCustomGUIElements_eng.tga
  • xOptionsGUIComponents.tga
  • xCalibrationURU.tga
  • xLinkPanelCleftDesert.tga
  • tldnBlack.tga
  • NoTextAlpha.tga
  • CancelTextAlpha.tga
  • xAvatarCustomizationBarButtons.tga
  • xUruButton.tga
  • xStartupGUIElements2_eng.tga
  • xGUIMenuSkin.tga
  • xDniArrowSkin.tga

2) Are those tga files textures for the original KI from pre-beta? It looks really nice, but nothing like the ki we're used to.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Thanks trylon!

I've updated the KI-8887.zip file and you can re-download it to get those files.

I see there is KI stuff that was back in the Chouru days! (the xBBClothGui.tga) Other textures, I have no idea why they are there. The artists may have reuses parts of a texture from somewhere else (like the Teledahn black, which I'm sure is a truer black than the black from any other age. ;-) )

Thanks,
Chogon


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:54 am 
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Very awesome!!

I see the Python side of things is just Python code, with no Makefiles or instructions. Does anybody know how to compile these into my MOUL client? (I assume some hackers know, as people have been messing with the Python inside Uru for years, but I've never done any such messing.)

It would be great if there was a guide in this thread for how to patch the Ki code (specifically) into the client.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:27 am 
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Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
Very awesome!!

I see the Python side of things is just Python code, with no Makefiles or instructions. Does anybody know how to compile these into my MOUL client? (I assume some hackers know, as people have been messing with the Python inside Uru for years, but I've never done any such messing.)

It would be great if there was a guide in this thread for how to patch the Ki code (specifically) into the client.


They are probably compiled with Python, and then encrypted using "The app that must not be named!" /ominous stare :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:51 am 
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Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
It would be great if there was a guide in this thread for how to patch the Ki code (specifically) into the client.

You can’t. (Well, I guess you could using a man-in-the-middle attack, but it would be major hackery and I don’t know if anyone has done it.) The Python files live on the server and are downloaded into memory every time you launch the client – that’s (part of) what happens during the initial “updating” progress bar.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:08 am 
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That wasn't the case before MOUL, back in Prologue as you know the files were kept on your PC and loaded on startup.

This I suppose is a good thing, gives a starting point.

I think, could be wrong, but isn't the KI exported just like an Age, if so then surely you could test it on your local machine with PotS and the D. . . program, I don't know.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Are there any plans to transition some python scripts to plain unencrypted files in the general MOUL as it open-sources?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Well, if the Ki code can't be run in the game, then it isn't very useful in its present state :(
You could try hacking it into POTS, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish. POTS doesn't even have a Ki interface to speak of (so would it even be compatible?) And even if you could hack it in, you couldn't test any functionality since the Ki is primarily a communications tool.

Therefore, I'm a bit confused about what we're to do with this. (Though I'm having fun reading it.)

Chogon: A few of us are wondering if we can put this code up on public repositories. That would be useful because we can start modifying the code in public branches (in a very disorganised version of the model I described on the other thread). I'm going to refrain from doing that for the moment because I notice the code has no license on it. Being very cautious about legalities here ... technically, the code as it stands is copyrighted material, and we haven't been given permission to redistribute it.

Even if we are given permission by Cyan to redistribute it, most major open source code hosting sites (SourceForge, Google Code, Launchpad, etc) require an OSI-approved license. Has Cyan decided on an open source license for the code yet?

If a license has been decided, would it be possible to add the license text to the top of each source file, so it is clear what our legal rights are. If a license has not been decided, can Cyan at least issue a statement which says, in effect, "we give you the right to download, redistribute and modify the code, as long as it is not used for commercial use. Cyan reserves the right to revoke or modify this license at any time, blah blah blah". Or at least give us the OK to upload the code to other hosting sites and modify it.

I understand that making legal decisions or coming up with legalese takes time, but I feel like having the code floating around without *any* license at all is a bad situation for everyone.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Indeed. It would be a big help to have an explicit license mentioned for these files.

Using an OSI approved license would be the quickest way I believe.
A few suggestions below:
  • [MIT License
    If you don't care what happens as long as credit is given,
  • Gnu Public License v2.0
    If you want it to be open-source and remain open-source. Note that the source can then only be used in conjunction with GPL compatible 3rd-party sources. Also, it only allows linking with GPL compatible libraries.
  • Lesser Gnu Public License v2.0
    Same as the GPL, but this one allows linking with non-GPL compatible binaries

For more licenses see: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/category.

My personal recommendation would be to initially release it under a strict license like the GPL, and if you wish to release it under a more relaxed licence later on, re-release it under that license. (Which is Cyan's right as copyright-holder)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:13 pm 
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trylon wrote:
Gnu Public License v2.0
If you want it to be open-source and remain open-source. Note that the source can then only be used in conjunction with GPL compatible 3rd-party sources. Also, it only allows linking with GPL compatible libraries.

The PhysX licence is incompatible with the GPL. Cyan could add an exemption for PhysX, but we still wouldn't be able to link against third-party GPL code without explicit permission (GPL-with-exemption isn't compatible with the GPL).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:37 pm 
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error missing python files

KIHandler
OptionHandler
OpeningSeqHandler

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Keikoku wrote:
The PhysX licence is incompatible with the GPL. Cyan could add an exemption for PhysX, but we still wouldn't be able to link against third-party GPL code without explicit permission (GPL-with-exemption isn't compatible with the GPL).


True, I'd forgotten that. It doesn't rule out the LGPL though, which would make a good alternative, and to be honest is my favourite of the two. I personally don't like the viral clause on static or dynamic links.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:14 pm 
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trylon wrote:
My personal recommendation would be to initially release it under a strict license like the GPL, and if you wish to release it under a more relaxed licence later on, re-release it under that license. (Which is Cyan's right as copyright-holder)


That's only partially true. Cyan would indeed have the right to re-release the version they just gave us, but any contributions made by fans while the code was under the stricter license would still be under that stricter license, and couldn't be used in the new, permissive fork without the explicit consent of each of the individual contributors, some of whom may have since fallen off the internet. (This really does happen.)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:04 am 
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I've been working for and with open source projects for almost ten years. I'm also the open source and license guy at my company. Most projects were related to Python, for example Zope/Plone and Python itself (aka CPython). Every major project required me to sign a contributor agreement that clarifies my rights and liability but also the rights of the organization that owns the rights and intellectual property of the project. For example with the Python Software Foundation and Python I grant the PSF the right to relicense my work.

I strongly suggest that Cyan follows the path of other projects and requires every developer to sign a contributor agreement. Cyan shouldn't use GPL as license for their code, too. The GPL isn't ideal for a commercial product like MOUL. The agreement and license should state that

* A developer must sign a contribute agreement before his code can be used by Cyan in MOUL in order to protect both parties from law suites.
* A developer must only contribute code he owns. Third party code like external Python products must be specially handled and require non copyleft licenses, e.g. BSD.
* Developers keep their right on their code but also grant Cyan exclusive permission to reuse and relicense the code in commercial versions of MOUL and related products.
* Cyan gives credit to every developer within their products. This means your name shows up somewhere in the game. ;)
* All derived work must use the same license.
* Developers must release their sources when they distribute binaries.

Some of the rules may sound harsh or too strict to you. But keep in mind that Cyan is a company that NEEDS to earn money to survive. Perhaps some day Cyan is able to make real money with MOUL again. If we don't allow them to use our code for mutual benefit all our work is for nothing. I think most people want two things: make MOUL a success to get more ages and receive credit for our work.

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