It is currently Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 pm

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
Restrictions for better creativity… I don’t think so. There are innate restrictions, those imposed by the media and the environment (story). I suspect our difference in opinion and the distinction I am making is in how restrictions are imposed.

Artists whether programmers or age writers may elect to stay within a given frame work. But even defining Uru as the frame work to remain within is difficult. One can say we all know what Uru is. We have seen it and we have played it. But how many of us would have figured Jalek belonged in the Uru story? Heek was a game-within-game. But, no Myst game did a game-within-game age before. If a fan had been creating Jalek and discussing the idea in forum, how would that have gone over?

The challenge is in what comes next. How does one define Uru so that everyone will understand what is and is not permissible for new content? I don’t think one can. I am certain no one can get the community to unanimously agree on what that would be. That is the point we are addressing when we say Uru is difficult to define and different to each of us. Can a player returning from Iraq make that part of her/his character in Uru? I think so. I think that is basic U-r-u. What was Cyan going to do with the Bahro war? Those that like combat might want to have seen it develop into more player verse NPC conflict with some measure of combat. But, we have never have player vs player combat in Myst and many of us prefer it that way. But, we don’t know what Cyan had in mind. We can only speculate.

To try to impose restrictions on creativity limits what can be done. There may be things people consider really great created within the restrictions. Necessity is considered the mother of invention. Creating artificial necessities diverts creativity. No one will ever know what wondrous things could have been created without the restrictions.

I saw what I consider a not so surprising statistic on the types of avatars in SL, where they have complete freedom. (Second Life Avatar Survey) 58.1% choose human style avatars. I have no doubt the majority of Open Source developers will stick with the main story arc and avatar types.

Sophia’s point on who will be doing the actual work is well made. They will be the ones that decide what gets changed. The rest of us are long for the ride. Cyan will adopt and use what they like and those that like Cyan’s story telling will play on their shard.

I believe there are far more people learning modeling, experimenting with code, studying the game, and developing code (or at least ideas for) than we hear from because we do not have licenses yet (/wave sign – Licenses Now). I think a number of other capable people are waiting for code. Without licenses there isn’t much one can publish. The GoW and OpenUru.org have threads with extensive plans.

Once the waiting for licenses and code is over we will see more activity in the community. That may not unite the community, but I don’t see it damaging or dividing it any more than it is now. Restrictions, however, could and likely will do that and I see no upside for restrictions. While the apparent chaos of freedom will divide some out, I expect the un restrained creativity to have the upside of drawing more people in.

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 683
Location: Wherever my ages take me.
I'm simply going to give my thoughts on the original question asked here. "Will Open Source shards divide the community?"

[Personal Opinion & Perspective]

Yes and No.

Everyone has their own taste and feel for what they would like Uru "to be, or not to be." (that is the question! :P)

There will be people who will want to do whatever they want, with no limitations or rules whatsoever, and thus, there will most likely be a shard created for that.

There will be people who will want to stay on Cyan's current server and follow them and their rules.

There will be people who will want to have everything to strictly follow their definition of "Canon". A shard will most likely be created for that.

There will be people who will want to join a shard where Canon has been altered/changed/corrected/fixed/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. A shard will most likely be created for that.


Shards are, in my opinion, the best way to go for MOULa. Why? Because everyone gets what they want, and everyone gets their personal tastes for Uru met.

Do I think this will divide the community? Shard in it's very definition says yes. People will go their own ways and take their own paths.

Will having many shards like this make Uru's popularity and participation decrease?
Per shard, very likely.
Overall, anything but.

That's my view on it at least. Whether or not that view will change, I cannot be sure.

[/Personal Opinion & Perspective]

_________________
KI#46415
KI#80658


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am
Posts: 4134
Simone wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
I think this is insulting to people who enjoyed that. How is it anymore a "playpen" when people teleport the arch than when Cyan make smoke come out of the Guild Hall? The only difference is that Cyan is doing the playing.

No, that's not the only difference, you know that, and moreover it is insulting that you think someone might fall for these trivial rhetorical tricks.

Incorrect. When you actually look at it, the only difference is that Cyan is the one managing the playpen. Furthermore, who's using "rhetorical tricks" (the fallacies are doing backflips now?) considering you said there's another difference I'm somehow missing yet never specify what it is.

_________________
-Whilyam
Cavern Link:My IC Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am
Posts: 278
Whilyam: You aren't missing it. When Cyan (or anyone else for that matter) make smoke come out of the Guild Hall, smoke is (for whatever reason) coming out of the Guild Hall in the game world. It might have a reason, which we might someday find out. When someone flips the arch around or turns the Cavern pink, even if it were Cyan doing it, there is no way that could be happening in the game world. The only reason it's happening is that someone is bored. That is a genuine difference of kind and not a rhetorical trick.

Nalates: I'd have said all the teaching Ages in Exile were games within a game.

Sorry I don't have anything else to say that's on topic.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm
Posts: 1116
Whilyam wrote:
To accuse others of sloth without knowledge of the facts is something which deserves a swift apology. ...
More importantly, how do you expect people (who know more about this than you or I) to find etc


Apologies are like respect... they can only be earned, not demanded. I could demand your apology for assuming what I (don't) know, and placing me in the same category as yourself, but apologies are like respect....... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:27 pm 
Offline
Former MystOnline Moderator

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:05 pm
Posts: 4202
Location: 56°2'26", -3°20'28"
While the Mods are quite content to allow the debate on a subect like this to get quite "heated" (it is a subject that can arouse passions, after all), we'd just like to ask everyone to keep to the subject of the thread, and to be careful of throwing insults, intentional or otherwise, as there's a real risk of Forum Policy III coming into play, and we don't really want to have to lock this thread.

Thanks. :)

_________________
Image Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826 00004289
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:36 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:22 am
Posts: 1092
Location: On the bluff
Sophia wrote:
I might be missing something, because admittedly I have not kept up with various forums lately, but now that certain elements are open sourced (KI, wave movement, and the age plugins for Max7), what has been DONE with that so far? I have yet to see any great plans, let alone actual steps to accomplish it. And don't tell me "Cyan don't want us to", I don't buy that...

Sophia, I’m not an expert, but the release of the elements you cite are a great signal that Cyan is moving in the direction of Open Source, but they actually don’t do much of anything to arm people with the tools and information they need to make Open Source a reality. So the “great plans” and “actual steps” you mention must await some further, more fundamental (or more elemental) releases on the part of Cyan.

There, that wasn’t so hard, was it? :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:36 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6229
Location: Everywhere, all at once
In a fit of clarity, I am reminded of this contribution from RAWA in my Manufactured Divisions discussion on the DRC forums:

RAWA wrote:
JWPlatt wrote:
I have faith that Cyan will choose the benevolent "path" rather than manufacture divisions among its subscribers.

We have no need to manufacture divisions. You all do that just fine by yourselves. :)

http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?p=9006#9006

i.e. It's not the open source that will be divisive.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:47 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:00 am
Posts: 1669
Location: Lakewood, WA
JWPlatt wrote:
snip...
RAWA wrote:
JWPlatt wrote:
I have faith that Cyan will choose the benevolent "path" rather than manufacture divisions among its subscribers.

We have no need to manufacture divisions. You all do that just fine by yourselves. :)

snip...
i.e. It's not the open source that will be divisive.

1+ :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am
Posts: 4134
Zander_the_Heretic wrote:
Whilyam: You aren't missing it. When Cyan (or anyone else for that matter) make smoke come out of the Guild Hall, smoke is (for whatever reason) coming out of the Guild Hall in the game world. It might have a reason, which we might someday find out. When someone flips the arch around or turns the Cavern pink, even if it were Cyan doing it, there is no way that could be happening in the game world. The only reason it's happening is that someone is bored. That is a genuine difference of kind and not a rhetorical trick.

That's quite simply wrong. Cyan can claim anything is happening in the game world. For example, the sparkling shell in To D'ni or the sparkling spiral in the pods. The only reason you don't see "turn cavern pink" as being able to happen in the game world is because you personally don't view it as something the Bahro/other deus ex machina can do/would do. At its core, there is no separation between the two except the person doing it.

Also, just to clarify this since you seem to claim I was saying that there was no other difference, it was a rhetorical trick: Simone* claimed I was trying some rhetorical trick. I claimed (essentially) that she was dishonest to claim there was a difference I was dishonestly leaving out without providing the difference. You would have just provided that difference, had what you just said actually been a difference.

Zardoz wrote:
Sophia, I’m not an expert, but the release of the elements you cite are a great signal that Cyan is moving in the direction of Open Source, but they actually don’t do much of anything to arm people with the tools and information they need to make Open Source a reality. So the “great plans” and “actual steps” you mention must await some further, more fundamental (or more elemental) releases on the part of Cyan.

There, that wasn’t so hard, was it? :D

It's hard for some people, it would seem.
We need Cyan to do something for Open Source to happen. Cyan did something. Why isn't Open Source happening?!
Where's my pony, you lazy Writers?!

Edit: Accidentally put down Sophia when I meant Simone.

_________________
-Whilyam
Cavern Link:My IC Blog


Last edited by Whilyam on Wed May 19, 2010 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:10 am
Posts: 372
Round and round the wheel spins. Anger, frustration, and ignorance. The inmates are restless.

I'm worried about shards dividing the community too. Even two shards will separate the five or six people left after everyone else leaves do to all this useless bickering. :wink:

_________________
BAD is as good as BAD can be.

Visit our new site!

SOUP!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm
Posts: 1116
Whilyam wrote:
Sophia claimed


Little rectification: I claimed nothing of the sort. Carry on, everybody :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Australia
Sophia wrote:
...now that certain elements are open sourced (KI, wave movement, and the age plugins for Max7), what has been DONE with that so far? I have yet to see any great plans, let alone actual steps to accomplish it.

Personally, I've been too busy planning and creating to be concerned with posting about what I can or cannot do.
Cyan will probably be ready for the next step before I am. :P

But I think a bit of division is a good thing for Uru. Trying to cram everyone into the same box won't work.
The cream (whatever that may be) will rise to the top and if you don't like the cream, that's ok.

_________________
Independent Age Writer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:43 am
Posts: 282
Whilyam wrote:
That's quite simply wrong. Cyan can claim anything is happening in the game world. For example, the sparkling shell in To D'ni or the sparkling spiral in the pods. The only reason you don't see "turn cavern pink" as being able to happen in the game world is because you personally don't view it as something the Bahro/other deus ex machina can do/would do. At its core, there is no separation between the two except the person doing it.

Also, just to clarify this since you seem to claim I was saying that there was no other difference, it was a rhetorical trick: Simone* claimed I was trying some rhetorical trick. I claimed (essentially) that she was dishonest to claim there was a difference I was dishonestly leaving out without providing the difference. You would have just provided that difference, had what you just said actually been a difference.


I reply to this, although it is OT, only because I need to offer you my apologies, Whilyam. I said you were using a rhetorical trick there, because I assumed that you knew what you were talking about. But evidently my assumption was wrong. I'm sorry for thinking you were being disingenuous.


BTW, please, everyone, I'm a guy, not a girl, although my name sounds otherwise to English/German speakers. =)

_________________
Simone - KI#1001138
Please avoid drinking the lake water.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am
Posts: 278
I'm so sorry, Simone. I've never encountered the final E in the male form before.

As illustration of the fragmentation of the community which already exists without being harmful to it in any way, this discussion could be said to be on topic. The distinction I was trying to point out to Whilyam is between "can" and "would," and I think that's the distinction which was behind the canon-related rhubarb. Some explorers will do anything they can do to their avvies, some shard runners will do anything they can do to the environment, while others will prefer to confine themselves to things which can work within the logic of a story and/or the laws of nature in this world. That's the separation between the two, and it's quite real.

My remark about people being bored was perhaps uncalled-for; story logic may matter more to, say, me than to other people, but that need not mean they do not care about Uru as much as I do. Apologies for that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: