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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:57 am 
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Woot, Chogon posted up the KI source and with a similar topic in the spoilers section, this thread is slightly different.
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20777

While I have been down this road before, and depending on if anyone wants to try their hand at patching or redesigning the KI interface, i'd like to hear your ideas or suggestions.

The GoW started a thread which has some of my ideas as others, like OpenUru as well, has shown that its going to be a bumpy road to say it mildly.

Disclaimer: I am not able nor will be able to do such a project, and this thread is for some ideas as well as a reference to topics already created on the matter of patching and redesigning of the KI interface.

Starlion, Maten and myself to name a few that have good ideas and they are documented in the above threads. What are yours?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:50 am 
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The only thing I'd really like (and by 'only' I mean 'it requires a total overhaul') is for the KI messenger capabilities to actually resemble that of a real messenger: I want several groups (not just 'buddies'), I want the close tab to remain closed, I want to separate channel (Age) chat from private messages, I want to add people by user name instead of KI#, I want to approve people who add me, I want stuff to be in their own movable and snappable windows and not fixed on the screen, and I want proper scroll bars instead of silly arrows. That is all. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:22 pm 
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I think you summed up about every one of my requests Ian, except one, specifically to have a built in ki directory to look up names from, with an opt-in policy (so anyone who opts in can be found by name/ki# lookup in the KI itself, and anyone not opted in can't but can be found the normal way by being in an age with them or pm or what have you). It'd make it easier, and while I appreciate the work people do to make directories of numbers, having it built into the system which, you know, has the numbers because it IS where they're stored... would make sense.

Oh, and perhaps add 'chat channels' that we can create/use/join/etc, so say anyone interested in chatting about D'ni history could join the "D'ni History" channel and chat about it and only people there would see, and not have to be in some specific bevin or age or what have you to join the chat. There's no way to do it right now, and the closest we can fake with everyone in an age or buddying all together just doesn't work.


Oh, and the ability to copy text and paste to enter it. Of course, I suspect all of this requires more than just the code Chogon gave us.. that's built deeper into Plasma, isn't it, the handling of drawing the KI input/output, with python to arrange what is said.. isn't it? I don't know python but a cursory glance over bits of source hinted that's the case..

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:43 am 
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That's great. A lot of ideas I've seen so far have been redesigning the Ki's UI. But these suggestions to make it more like IRC/IM are great.

I would love channels, much like World of Warcraft. In WoW, there is a "general chat" channel which is OFF by default, but global. So if you join that, you can chat with everyone in the world (who also joined that channel). That would be great -- think of it like a global instance (Ae'gura), but you don't have to physically be in the city to use it -- you can chat to "the world" from anywhere. WoW also has other global channels with specific purposes, such as "looking for group". Uru could have a "looking for group" channel where you can go in and say, again publically, "I'm looking for someone to help with Ahnonay." Lastly, there could be a "hints" channel, which is also global, where you can go in and say "I'm stuck on Kadish Tolesa, at that [email protected]$#$% pyramid with symbols on the floor!!!!"

If I was a new player, I would not join those as I'd enjoy walking through the Ages on my own, unless I needed help. But if I was an experienced player (ie. me, and many other players), I would join those all the time and just see what people are chatting about. Currently, in Uru, you have a choice between "explore Ages" or "go to Ae'gura and chat". One is pretty and fun, but usually a solo experience. The other is more social, but there isn't much to *do* while you're there. Having global chat channels would let me do both at the same time :)

Also, Bellerophon and I (I loosely say "I" because we tossed a few ideas around before he drew this) posted some Ki suggestions, including a UI mockup, here:

Image


Last edited by Eat_My_Shortz on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:52 am 
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Actually, if anyone is planning to implement global chat channels, it would be wonderful if they were implemented as actual IRC channels somewhere, so I can log into them with any IRC client. The Ki would just function as a special-purpose IRC client for these channels, in game. That way, I could log into, say, hints channel while I'm doing other stuff, and see what people are asking about.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:34 am 
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Also I would love to have Gtalk-like statuses. (Available, Busy, Away, Invisible). Invisible is important! I want to be able to play Uru without having people talk to me. (Sorry, people!)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:08 pm 
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This is probably part of the avatar model and not the KI model itself, but this has always bugged me:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

The model of the KI on the avatar is A) backwards (left/right mirror image), and B) at a really awkward angle. You'd have to turn your arm so that your elbow is sticking out in front of you. It should be rotated about 90 degrees clockwise.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
The GoW started a thread which has some of my ideas as others, like OpenUru as well, has shown that its going to be a bumpy road to say it mildly.

Someone care to sum up ?
Not everyone reads stuff there...

The things that anonys me most with the ki is the fact you can't use accents, and having to use ki number to add someone to your friend list if that someone is not in the same age as you.
Take it easy,try to fix the small stuf, then we'll speak redesign.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Hi all! Registered just now, been lurking for a while though. Since you asked for suggestions, I thought I'd post some things that I've thought up over my Uru time. Use or ignore as you please. :lol:

All these interface changes would be nice(really nice, actually), but I think a good fun first fix would be to get the marker game modes working. Right now, as far as I know, we can only make the standard Missions. But the book in the game talks about setting up the CTF modes. Unless I'm totally missing something obveous, in which case feel free to ignore me. :?

Another small, easy, but very helpful feature: How about when we send something like a picture, the game can "ping" the other player so we can get a confirmation they recieved the message(or failed to)?

Right now the only indication is that the arrow dissapears, and I've seen lots of users(especally those new to Uru coming from other games) frusterated at the fact they "can't send stuff, it's broken". A bit more user feedback on the process of sending the image/KI text message would fix the problem and hopefully cut down on complaints. :D

Of course, it wouldn't solve the newbie relto book problem(new people not understanding they need to stand very close to the other player to share the book), but it would be one less frustrating thing, especally with how the game tends to report people as "on the surface" when interage chatting while doing single player. :wink:

I'd personally like a "don't bother me, I'm thinking" mode, where I can be on but marked as "Dark Griffin is busy doing a puzzle right now". It's kind of rough when you are doing a puzzle, and then someone logs on and says "Hi there!". Your only option is to break your train of thought to say "Hi, I'm busy.", or ignore the message entirely, making them wonder if you even care. A simple AFK type system that doesn't require the avatar to really be in AFK action mode would be very handy.

Make it toggle to off when the user logs out, so that people don't forget they are set to be afk when they boot up the game later. It could also toggle off when the user enters a public place, like the pubs, for ease of use. (Maybe make this an optional behavior that can be turned off, for certain RPing purposes the user might want to stay hidden/busy.)

I'd love an option to close the chat entirely before you get the KI. The reason is that if you type in the chat when starting new characters, you'll end up with the spam of whatever hood the character is in. Yes, you can type the / command to close the chat and clear it, but 99% of new users arn't going to know that. I personally had a hood where several players had already played the game through, and until I got my KI interface, there was no way(visibly or user intuitively) to close the chat window and not spoil the game. Had I been a real newbie, that would potentially have really ruined the cleft.

One alternate fix to this problem is to not let someone without a KI hear any of the chats besides the age's public chat. Since they don't have the interface to talk to the neighbors yet, don't show it. Simply ignore every message(and possibly tell the other players that "Mr X doesn't have the KI and can't hear you yet, use public age chat to speak with them."

It was very frusterating to see others chatting, but have to know that I can use /neighbors to chat with them. Had I not played URU before, I wouldn't think to use the / command. The result would be that I'd get the impression everyone is ignoring me, which is certainly not what the communication or the game is supposed to convey. :wink: If we keep it so that they have no clue what features the KI really has until the player has gotten one, it would also make it much more special to them when they "discover" the dispenser. It would convey a sudden "Wow, that's what this thing can do! I can chat with so many people in so many ways!" Currently it sadly conveys more along the lines of "Ugg, now I can finally turn the spoilers off." :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:52 pm 
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I would advocate caution about reducing communication too much early in the game. If an experienced player wants to help walk their newbie friend through the process of getting a KI so they can start socializing, then they shouldn't have to resort to out-of-game communication channels to do it.

Perhaps communications could become more restricted at the same time that
[spoiler]the Cleft book becomes inaccessible.[/spoiler]This would help the feature distinguish the players that want to focus on socializing (where we should lean towards greater communication) from those that want to focus on puzzle-solving (where spoilers are a greater concern).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:47 pm 
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The Chat channels, while a great suggestion...... seems to me that if we have chat channels players are going to enter into an age full of ppl and find everyone in private chat channels, hence a silent city.... also what happens if Cyan does end up with a miracle and the DRC returns? They will be chatting but no one will be on 'their' channel. Good suggestion but might have some draw backs.

I do think that new players without a KI should not see any chat except from the Age they are in OR any player that specifically PM's them.
/p [person] [text]

When the new player brings their mouse down to the bottom of the screen to pop up the menu it should have their KI # after the <chat> ######### that way if some one asks them they will know their user number because lets face it, that number really isn't a KI number... it's a user number.

The instructions for the KI should be in a directory IN the KI.

The only problem I have about the Facebook style of buddying suggestion is I don't want to go thru a list of 20 friends every time I log on. I don't care who's buddy list I am on. If they chat at me too much I'll ask them to take me off their buddies list, else they go in ignore. How about a compromise. have a setting to turn on that will allow the system (in this case) to work like it always has. That way some can have the ultra privacy and I don't have to accept ppl every time. IT's not like I have any private stats in this game.

There was once a thread YEARS ago all about KI possible upgrades. Shame it's impossible to find.
There are several threads already if someone really wants to look at a large amount of opinions.
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=395
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6305

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Those are nice ideas :)

This is what I poposed for the primary KI interface, though in saying that, I want to see the old KI dial design for the mini KI
Image

This idea is a bit like the chat channels in Second Life, though this is a bit different, as each tab is a chat channel, its alsocan be a party channel

The background colour is an example only, same as the buttons on the KI as the current KI design I want changed to something different or the Pre beta design

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:13 pm 
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One thing I really miss from offline uru is the ability to see your location in the cavern without having to oped the big KI. It made it way easier to figure out coordinates in the cavern. It would be nice to see a small window that you could pop up (maybe like jalak?) that displays to coordinates and whatnot.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:50 am 
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That shouldn't be too difficult, it certainly fits in with the idea of fixing the ki without the possibility of breaking other things.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:18 pm 
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While running around the cavern last week, I noticed something that would be helpful. I kept have to stop and bring up my Big Ki menu in order to read my position coordinates. I think it was either in Compleat Chronicles or Until Uru that once you got your Ki calibrated, the Toran, Distance, and Elevation readout would appear in their little box just under the small Ki and you could read your coordinates as you were running around.

Even if they remain in the upper right hand corner as they appear in the Big Ki screen, but visable in small Ki mode, would be a great help for navigating the cavern.

Just a suggestion.....

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