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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:27 am 
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Just a thought... I wonder if some of the folks "in the know" could make a short summary of what today's announcement means (the simple view for the common folk).

e.g., my understanding is:

1. MoulAgain server and accounts will continue to operate as it has since Feb (for now).

2. A new Open Source server (MOSS) will be available (schedule?) for hosting Open Source ages for testing and sharing with the community.

3. How will MoulAgain accounts access the new server (i.e., same account/password, or something new)?

There will be dozens of additional questions about merging new ages with the actual MOUL game, etc., and those are probably premature, but if we could establish a nice Open Source "status" sticky here, it would help, and I think others may agree.

If someone (like JW, a'moaca', Mac_Fife, cjkelly, or rarified) would start a nice Status post, I'll sticky it and delete this post.

Good idea?

Cheers,

Dguy

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:48 am 
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Here's how I understand it:
dadguy wrote:
1. MoulAgain server and accounts will continue to operate as it has since Feb (for now).

Correct.
dadguy wrote:
2. A new Open Source server (MOSS) will be available (schedule?) for hosting Open Source ages for testing and sharing with the community.

Also correct.
dadguy wrote:
3. How will MoulAgain accounts access the new server (i.e., same account/password, or something new)?

Each new server will have it's own list of usernames and passwords, administered by the owner of the server in question. They will be islands, disconnected from each other and standing entirely alone.
dadguy wrote:
There will be dozens of additional questions about merging new ages with the actual MOUL game, etc., and those are probably premature, but if we could establish a nice Open Source "status" sticky here, it would help, and I think others may agree.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:59 am 
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Thanks dadguy. Glad to know we seem to be on the same page (and someone "in the know" concurs)

It would be better, of course, imo, that one day URU be linked across these servers. turn several islands into one seamless continent to eliminate borders between explorers.

News about new developments is key, of course, as is relaying information to those (such as yours truely here) who aren't exactly too terribly keen on how this works in a way that's clear and understandable.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:04 am 
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This post is made as a representative of OpenUru.org, not as a MOUL moderator.

Anaerin's remarks are pretty much correct. As for the schedule for MOSS mentioned by dadguy, that basically means "now": Anyone with the right *nix platform with PostgreSQL can set up a server, by downloading and building the code. We hope to be able to provide ready to run binaries for specific platforms from the Continuous Integration Engine in our Foundry.

There is no license for "content" yet from Cyan, so for now the MOULa servers will act as content servers.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:59 am 
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In cavern, the question of what Rand meant by "MOSS Server" came up. It seemed that the word "server" led some people to think "shard" or "service."

If you look at the context in which the phrase is used, "CyanWorlds.com Engine and the MOSS server", it seems clear to me that Rand is talking about software (as in the CWE is a client, while MOSS is a server) and not talking about a shard, which is the jargon used to describe one or more computers running the server-side software.

So, my interpretation of "MOSS Server" is in line with Mac_Fife's. I don't see that there is any commitment from Cyan to run an open source shard, but I'm certain one or more fan MOSS-based shards will be set up in the near future.

For the record, I also haven't seen any commitment from OpenUru to set up a shard, but that's OK too - OpenUru's purpose is to act as a collaboration platform and repository, and there's a great philosophy in doing one thing and doing it well, rather than trying to do too many things (and thus doing them poorly).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:09 am 
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that was me who posed that question, Marten, and i'm glad you brought this up here. my interpretation was more along the lines of dadguy's, but two who are "in the know" already say otherwise. obviously, we're gonna have to work on clairty of conveying information lol. i must admit, for an announcement that seemingly heralds the long awaited comming of open source uru, it was rather breif, sort of vague and nondiscript, and with little fanfare. apparently, or though it seems to me, os is still a work in progress (obviously) either details aren't %100 hashed out yet or some info is being kept underwraps to be detailed piecemeal as needed. or, since this is a community project, details don't necessarily exist because certain things may not work for everyone. regardless, it seems as though some additional info and clarification is needed. i must admit i still have a hard time understanding how you described this MOSS server to function. this of course stems from my ignorance to such technicalities. it does seem necessary to me, as well, to have a dedicated sticky thread for providing ongoing info that anyone can understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:24 am 
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If you are confused about status, it is because most of these things have only been speculated on. You can assume, or may be it is just obvious, the facts have been limited to those with NDA's working with Cyan. Also few people have seen the code yet. Those that have are busy making it usable and distributing it. So, most of the community, those into working with the code, are busy reading the new release and figuring it out.

From what I understand so far, we now have code with lots of missing parts. If you have never compiled a program before, don't try to learn on CWEngine... I only say that because it will be hard for you tell which errors are due to your setup and which are due to missing parts or make files not revised to work outside Cyan's system.

Mac_Fife tells me that if you follow instructions and run down the parts, it is possible to create a working server and client. In the next few days this will get easier and tutorials will appear. Until then one needs to be pretty geeky to make it work.

Since the client was only ever intended to work with a Cyan shard, there are no simple controls for selecting different shards. Just like the SL Viewers made by Linden Lab only have controls for connecting to SL servers (grids). All the third party viewers for SL have the controls to select different grids (OSGrid, In-Worldz, etc.) and remember the login ID/pw for them. We can expect to see those controls soon added to the open source clients.

There are also the CONTENT issues. No content license has been provided. So, if one does run a server, it is unclear whether or not you can share Cyan content stored on their servers or if it is strictly hands off. So far the predominant opinion seems to be its hands off. I suspect the private shards will remain private until the license is released. Public shards will probably be fan content only.

There are likely some issues with licensing fan content regarding the fan's rights and how they have or haven't published licenses for their work. Then it gets a bit more complex when we consider the fans that created content using Cyan licensed resources. The fan stuff may already be sorted out. Whatever the case, over the next weeks the fan stuff will get handled. So, we likely will see some running servers with fan content in just a few weeks may be days.

There are also some likely incompatibilities between older fan ages made in Blender and ages made in 3DSMax and the MOSServer made for the later. We'll see how quickly ages can be adapted.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:46 pm 
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OpenUru.org is not hosting a shard at his time. We did temporarily have a shard up for testing, but we are not in that "business." Marten is quite correct that OpenUru.org is a point of collaboration for those who do wish to contribute to development of the software and/or bring up a shard for themselves.

Marten is also correct that the MOSS server is the server software. By following the instructions on the MOSS pages of the wiki, you can bring up a shard. You will obviously need to be technically literate. It's not as easy, for example, as the scripted install of Wordpress that your web host offers. ;)

There was no NDA. Cyan never mentioned or asked for one. The team respected Cyan's rights without the need for it.

The raw download zip on our wiki is direct from Cyan and is not buildable. The CWE repo client is buildable (you can make an "executable" and run it on your computer), thanks to a'moaca' and cjkelly1. MOSS is buildable. (The client and server produce a legal, working shard.) The 3ds Max plugin needs your help. We did not work on restoring the plugin's third party libraries that were removed because of GPLv3 incompatibilities. It is up to the development community.

Right, there is no content license yet. Server runners cannot share the content. The client needs to use content delivered directly from Cyan's MOULa server or obtained from fan age developers. That means download Cyan's installer first, get the content, then use it to play on other open source shards. There is no need to keep an open source shard private if it follows this basic rule.

If something isn't clear in the materials we've release so far, if you find something that needs fixing, please, join the effort and help to fix it. The team at OpenUru.org has helped bring this to you, but like any open source project, we need and expect the community to contribute.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:55 pm 
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What I wanna know is...

1: When will new content arrive?

2: What would come first (small things, relto pages, ages...)

3: What could the common folk expect to happen?

4: what are the possibilities with Open Source?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:11 pm 
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I'd imagine new content will arrive as soon as it's ready, which in some cases may be more or less now. I've heard some people have been working on their own projects while OS was still in the making. of course, they still need to share and impliment that content into a fan run shard.

I'd imagine whatever can come first is whatever developers can manage or have managed so far.

and possibilities of open source? whatever developers can manage to do with it.

that's my laymans take on those matters anyway. my questions are:

1.) will there be a way to host content all in one place so as not to seperate explorers across multiple shards?
2.) what will determine what content is suitable for os uru. i.e.: cyan level of quality and work that pretains ligitimately to uru.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Okay thanks Main_avvie. Just think of it like this, Netscap was Open Source and thats how firefox came in to being.



btw love your sig main_avvie :)

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Last edited by Squirtdude on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:00 pm 
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lunanne wrote:
*"Any sufficiently advanced science is indisguisable from magic" ~ Terry Pratchett

Off topic, but to correct the record, Terry Pratchett may have used those words, but the original quote is from writer and scientist Sir Arthur Charles Clarke ("2001: A Space Odyssey," etc., and conceptualizer of geostationary orbits). His third law is "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke

;)

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:01 pm 
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The biggest advantage of OSS is that whatever happens to Cyan Worlds, Uru will never cease to exist or be developed. Like it has been mentioned, Netscape released their browser as open source after it stopped being commercially viable, and that codebase forms the basis of Firefox today.

Another thing would be fixes. The client has a few bugs, including the famous Bevin naming and seemingly strange naming for other Ages (e.g. SpyRoom/Old SpyRoom). With open source, they can be quickly fixed and the community can test them. Like Cyan said, this puts all the pressure on us -- and it's a good thing to finally be able to make a better, less crashy :D, less buggy, client.

I am going to try and compile the client tomorrow and maybe play around with the code a bit, but C++ makes me dizzy. Any good book recommentations for that from the C++ wizards :)?


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