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 Post subject: OS Uru on Macs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:10 pm 
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How are Mac users likely to fare with OS Uru? I have a few thoughts, but don't know the technical issues:

1. WINE. MOUL used a Cider wrapper from Transgaming, but that must have been on a commercial basis. That probably isn't sustainable on open source. Did anyone else ever get MOUL running on the standard OS WINE, or Crossover? Is anyone in the community interested in, and capable of getting OS Uru to work on the OS WINE.

2. Mac Clients. These have been mentioned, but I don't know how much work is involved in making them. Same question as above - is anyone interested in, and capable of doing it.

3. VMs. Did anyone get MOUL running on Parallels, VMWare, or Virtualbox? How much slower are these likely to be than running native?

4. Bootcamp. Doesn't really count in my mind. Basically it's a Windows PC!

My preference would be for 1 or 2 because it's cheaper and easier on disk space than 3 or 4 which need a Windows installation.

Any thoughts or comments?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 pm 
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People had success in running MOUL under wine on Linux, and in running Uru CC under crossover.

I strongly suspect that the open source release won't include the Cider bits (though if it does that will make this easier). The way I see things going is: first the necessary tweaks (if any) will be applied to allow OSMO to run under wine/crossover, and then there will be a longer-term effort to make the code more portable and enable native Mac and Linux builds.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:18 pm 
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im sure they will release URU:OS as a native mac app. This app will run as a Cider port, just like MOUL did.
if not, it wont be a problem to port it to Cider, as a mac developer, i ported many games/programs to my mac, and they all work flawlessly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:23 pm 
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If it all becomes fail, there is always VMWare fusion


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:28 pm 
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One of my goals is to add plGLPipeline as a subclass of plPipeline and as an option for rendering instead of plDXPipeline. This would allow Plasma to use OpenGL instead of DirectX and would be a huge step towards a native Mac and Linux client.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:32 pm 
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Cider is a closed source and commercial based product/technology. I don't think Cyan will be able to release any parts of it under an open source license. They, however, might be able to provide the community with binary Cider ports, I don't know.

Somebody (or group) from the community will need to figure out how to get the client working under CrossOver or stock wine on OS X at first. Then possibly in the future that group can start making a true native OS X client. Worse case, there are virtual environments (or BootCamp), however they're more resource heavy than just running a client.


For these types of reasons alone, its taking Cyan longer to release the code. I'm sure they want to give us something in working condition. However some of the code or libraries they have might not be releasable under an open source license. They have to take the time to make everything open source compliant and they probably want to neaten up the soruces a bit so they're easier for us to understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:28 am 
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Dhelayan wrote:
im sure they will release URU:OS as a native mac app. This app will run as a Cider port, just like MOUL did.
if not, it wont be a problem to port it to Cider, as a mac developer, i ported many games/programs to my mac, and they all work flawlessly.


um... a Cider port is not by any stretch of the imagination "native" on a mac. Cider is essentially a wrapper that goes over what is basically.. a windows app. Its not even close to a native mac app.

Nor does running Uru through WINE on linux magically make Uru a "native" linux app.


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 Post subject: Re: OS Uru on Macs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:24 pm 
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1a. Cider. Even if we don't get a way of making our own builds using Cider, I suspect it will still be possible to reuse the Cider from MOUL, at least to some extent. Of course, the legality of such a solution would have to be examined, and it would rule out people who haven't kept around their MOUL installation.

1b. WINE. I've never tried MOUL, but for what it's worth, Uru CC works quite well in CrossOver Games (although a bit slow). I haven't gotten it to work on standard WINE (on Mac OS X, though I know some people use it on Linux).

2. Mac Clients. I am very interested, and while I'm not qualified to judge the feasibility of such a project at this time, I intend to find out and lend a hand in any such effort, as my time permits. Comments from Paradox, Lontahv, and other knowledgeable people sound optimistic. What I'm most worried about at this point is PhysX (as discussed here).

3. VMs. Again, I've never tried MOUL, but CC works acceptably in VMware Fusion 2 and Parallels 3, and quite well in Parallels 4. Performance is not a big problem, but accuracy of the DirectX emulation is.

4. Bootcamp. Doesn't count, not because I hate Windows, but because I usually can't afford to shut down Mac OS for a quick visit to Uru.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:53 am 
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I am running Uru : CC via BootCamp on my brand-spanking new iMac (top of the line model) - it works flawlessly. I ran MO:UL on my MacBook via BootCamp, it worked well; but I could not run the Mac version of MO:UL on the MacBook. I'm interested in seeing how the OS MO:UL runs on my new iMac.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:04 am 
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DarK wrote:
If it all becomes fail, there is always VMWare fusion


I tried that. It makes its own "virtual graphics card", which is, of course, incompatible with URU:CC.

Apparently, they're working on that, but there's no timeline for when the problem will be fixed. Naturally.

Edit: let me rephrase that: you can run URU:CC on Fusion, but looks awful.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:13 am 
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Dr Britcom Mom wrote:
I am running Uru : CC via BootCamp on my brand-spanking new iMac (top of the line model) - it works flawlessly. I ran MO:UL on my MacBook via BootCamp, it worked well; but I could not run the Mac version of MO:UL on the MacBook. I'm interested in seeing how the OS MO:UL runs on my new iMac.


What you're talking about is entirely different from the topic. Using Boot Camp is just running Windows on your Mac. Everyone else is talking about running Uru on Mac OS X.

SFT


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:17 am 
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Wine on Linux and Uru - was a fine running thing - only the glitch with mouse cursor and avatar names - but as we'll see, which API commands exactly Uru uses, they can be implemented into Wine. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:06 am 
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Keep in mind that most VMs (definitely VirtualBox and Parallels, and probably VMWare) use software derived from WINE to provide DirectX compatibility for Windows games run inside the VM. If Uru can be made to run with 3d acceleration inside those VMs, it probably isn't that far from working on standard WINE without the VM or Windows. (That is, assuming that it is the 3d code that is holding back Uru from running under WINE and not networking or something else.)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:48 pm 
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One thing is Cyan may have modules of code that have not seen the light of day but may help the community build support for other platforms. I'm hopeful that this will be the case and will allow us to move quickly to building working clients, maybe even server bits too. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:56 pm 
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isomorphic wrote:
Keep in mind that most VMs (definitely VirtualBox and Parallels, and probably VMWare) use software derived from WINE to provide DirectX compatibility for Windows games run inside the VM. If Uru can be made to run with 3d acceleration inside those VMs, it probably isn't that far from working on standard WINE without the VM or Windows. (That is, assuming that it is the 3d code that is holding back Uru from running under WINE and not networking or something else.)


Actually a lot of the cards in VM's are VESA based, and only emulate a subset of commands relative to the card the VM Company have chosen to emulate, this stuff is then pumped out to the host and displayed however the Host OS prefers

WINE has nothing to do with it to be honest, as Wine is an Open source API that has rather good DirectX support and OpenGL Support.

Most VM’s can barely support the dxdiag Direct draw tests, let alone the Direct 3D Tests.

http://bochs.sourceforge.net is one of the original emulators; they physically have written/make use of an open source BIOS and GPU BIOS's, this is as close as you will get to something vaguely resembling a physical system to be honest.

What VM's really need is for graphics manufactures to setup and provide an interface that a VM can tap into directly, similar in principals to VT extensions on newer CPU's

Still not going to happen soon :(


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