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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Hear me out on this one. :P

I've heard of psych studies where they're testing that old theory "violent video games cause violence", and in one of them they had three groups: one control, one group that played Myst (you know, Myst, walk, explore, solve puzzles), and one that played Doom (you know, Doom, run, shoot, and if it moves kill it). I can't exactly recall what they found at the end of the study, although I hope the "correlation does not equal causation" result was it.

But here's the thing... I've played both. I'm a long-time fan of both series, and have all the games in both series. To me, Doom had just as many puzzles as Myst, even if Myst makes you think a little bit longer. When I started Doom, I turned the monsters off just so I could explore the levels and figure out how to get to the next one. Eventually I turned the monsters back on and now they became part of the "how do I proceed?" puzzle; not just run and gun. I adored Doom 3's atmosphere, because while you were still shooting anything that breathes, there were some really good puzzles to help break up the combat (and the Half-Life series does it too).

So am I just spanning a really wide spectrum, or are there other dual Myst/Doom fans here? :D

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:08 pm 
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MarinaM wrote:
So am I just spanning a really wide spectrum, or are there other dual Myst/Doom fans here? :D


i at one point in time had the OK from cyan to remake the city in doom 3... i'll see if i cant find some pictures of it.
EDIT: tokhana alleyway... or however the heek its spelled
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:19 pm 
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I see lots of good points here. I've played the Doom series, and yes there are puzzles.
Allow me to throw another puzzle/fight series in: Legend of Zelda. Anyone who has played one game from the series knows about the puzzles and monsters you must beat. One puzzle I STILL remember from Zelda was the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time, with the twisted halls and the hand(floormaster?). It doesn't matter if a game is straight puzzle, fight, or a hybrid, but just as long the games are fun to play.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Quote:
"violent video games cause violence"


stated as is, i disagree.

*if* it is changed to:

'violent video games promote violence'

then i would partially yes and partially no.

partially because, yes, in children; especially those without proper and/or complete parental guidance to downplay the violence and/or explain 'it's only make-believe', it does do that. so do tv shows and movies...ratings on all these things need to be 'upped' not brought down even further...

as for the 'no' part of my response, well, from my own experience with doom, for me it was an outlet for my anger and frustrations in response to a certain situation. i knew, as an adult, that it's only make believe. even still, it sure felt good to go into the game and shoot those monsters (who i imagined were certain of those people causing issues) and then level up and get a better weapon that did the job even quicker!! it was VERY satisfying!! as much as i may have wanted to throttle some of the people that were causing problems, it's not something i would have ever actually done. although, that situation is about as close as i've ever come to actually contemplating doing so...having doom on the computer and being able to go into that and zone out and just vent at the monsters worked very well to relieve the stress. and sure saved me from actually hitting someone in real life!

so, in my situation, it actually AVOIDED violence occurring....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:54 pm 
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@gmz, :shock: you ... like... got a FCAL for building a DOOM Ae'gura? Wow... that is interesting.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:02 am 
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Nalates wrote:
@gmz, :shock: you ... like... got a FCAL for building a DOOM Ae'gura? Wow... that is interesting.


lol this was 2 years after the orginal online game died... i couldn't release the actual map file or anything but i could put the screen shots up and what not... it was fun while i lasted but the Doom 3 engine got rather... annoying... it couldn't handle some of the textures and the scaling was all wrong....
though the arch looked awesome. dont think i have any pictures of it anymore. xD

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 Post subject: MYST - DOOM
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:42 am 
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Rather than try to justify shooters by saying they have puzzles like Myst, i think i'd rather turn it around and say that the whole Myst thing is so stunning, complete and engaging that it does everything (and much more) that i personally otherwise look for and only rarely come close to finding in a good story-driven shooter.

I think Myst is really important, because it makes putting my guns down and away so easy ... and heaps on meaning, story and significance in their place ...

... as just one example, I found the age Minkata incredibly powerful because it went one step further again - not only making me put down my guns, but forcing me with it's stark and harsh environment to pick up a pen and paper from my desk to draw things out to get anywhere ... of course you have to keep notes on paper throughout all the Myst games, but it's the power of the story in Myst worlds that drives home these really important messages about the nature of what you're actually doing in front of your computer in playing a game ...

... like those silly moments in some shooters, where your character mentions they feel like they are being controlled by someone looking over their shoulder - or when you're so scared, challenged or affected by something that you take it away with you when you leave your screen ...

... i think Myst does all of that, much more powerfully and completely than any other game i've ever played ...

... and because the story is so complete and true to itself on a much, much bigger scale than i think maybe anyone could entirely grasp all at once - it never leaves you - and when it does leave you (as it has with Uru's closures) ... it still somehow feels like part of the bigger story is being played out, in reality.

I guess that's the same kind of 'cult' status that all the very best games have, Doom, Half-Life, Myst ... etc


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:18 pm 
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gmz, Bummer about not having pictures. I would have liked to seen how it looked.

Gareth, there has been many a discussion here about why the Uru fans like Uru. So far the only thing we can agree on is that we like it. 'Why' is all over the map.

This incarnation of Uru is not like the original in that it starts players off with the changes made for GameTap. Whether some will revert the game or change the start to something altogether new bring out loads of opinions and ideas. Then you get to see all the varieties of why its a great game.

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 Post subject: Myst - DOOM
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:22 pm 
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I'm not trying to round up why everyone likes Myst / Uru, only talking about myself here ... and for me personally, i primarily play shooters like Doom and Half-Life and STALKER, Far Cry, Crysis ... i think those would be my top games - but top of that list without doubt is always the Myst / Uru series and i would drop everything for a Myst adventure.

I've tried playing other adventure games, looking for something like Myst but never found anything close ... i have no time for puzzle games at all ... so for me personally Myst has something very special about it, to pull me away from otherwise very violent, action based games - and for me to not feel it any less thrilling or engaging.

So i'm a Myst / Doom fan too ... but i don't span any spectrum to get here.

Myst is just a properly great game.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Ah, I remember that study. I did a speech in class about that general category. The study did find more "violent potential" (that's a whole 'nother rant) in people who played Doom. I still say it's bogus. I play shooter games (off and on) yet I have been described as a rather timid person vis-a-vis real life.

I like games like Unreal Tournament, old school Duke Nukem, etc. Sometimes it's fun not to have to tax my brain when I want to play a game. On the same token, I love to sit around in Uru and just wander and look, without having to worry about something sneaking up to disembowel me.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:48 am 
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Gareth, I am curious what you see as the difference between the Myst/Uru adventure and a puzzle game?

If you are in Second Life I'm curious if you have seen Crux Isle and how you see it?

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 Post subject: Myst - DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 am 
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Nalates, i think it's because of the link it has with what it means to be in front of a computer. When i first played the original Myst, i was very much learning about the file structure on my new Macintosh ... folders, subfolders, file aliases - and i've always felt that Myst built it's structure around the same kinds of ideas. With linking books on library shelves, books that acted as aliases ... places within places, all containing different things ... like on a CDROM, which at the time seemed like a vast mystery to me when i got them from magazine covers!

The Myst story not only fits so well in that sense, as a computer game, sitting on a computer - it is also strong enough to hold such a human story, amazing symbolism and deep mysteries within it that last to this day.

Uru seemed to take the whole thing and turn it around, so rather than dragging one person into the game alone, it did the reverse ... with it's symbolism and structure - again, being so well structured that it fits and runs a human story out into the wider world that our relationship with the computer is today.

To hark back to topic, i think the link i enjoy that shooters gives me is also very strong ... maybe DOOM was about finding your way and getting comfortable in front of a computer too ... in a much more obvious, direct - but still very 'human' way (unfortunate tho maybe that is)...

... it's that human link and contrast between the two approaches that i think i like.

I just can't compare the Myst/Uru adventure to a puzzle game ... if something in Myst comes across as too much of a puzzle i get really uncomfortable - like the Kadish vault ... urrrrrgh ... but i appreciate how that discomfort fits into the story then, and that's what i like.

I'll see if i can find Crux Isles on Second Life ... i tried SL, but haven't really got on well with it - seen a lot of the Myst/Uru places and they are wonderful.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:55 pm 
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I think my signature says it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:29 am 
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I'll admit, when sirrus lies to me about achenar holding yeesha, i wish i had a gun...BOOM!


"Atrus, Achenar can go free, but Sirrus tried to kill me and, died trying. I am willing to stay on serenia and help fix up the mess that brat left in his wake. Uh, Atrus, why so serious?"

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:07 am 
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SURELY you have all heard of CYAN's infamous April Fool's joke "Myst Mayhem"? I don't have the pic anymore but perhaps someone else does? HILARIOUS. :lol:


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