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What weekend of the month should the Fair be held?
First Weekend (Second Weekend as Raindate) 73%  73%  [ 67 ]
Second Weekend (Third Weekend as Raindate) 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Third Weekend (Fourth Weekend as Raindate) 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
Fourth Weekend (First Weekend of Next Month as Raindate) 14%  14%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 92
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 pm 
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yes, it will. AgeExplorer is cleaning the chatlog for me and then I'll post a summary and we'll discuss :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:49 pm 
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I'm sorry it took me so long to get online. Family obligations and a random incident of my Cable Company saying "you get no TV and internet for six hours" were just a few deterrents.

Concerning the "announcement" last night (which you can read the full response to in the chatlog when it goes live), I basically proposed the idea of having the first Sunday of each month (the Guild Fair weekend's Sunday) be a sort of "event day" for Guilds and Groups to host special events which would use the momentum of the Guild Fair and All Guilds' Meeting to increase interest in those groups and just let these groups have fun with people in the Cavern rather than sit around in Kirel all weekend. I had it set in my mind that people would enjoy the idea of perhaps playing a couple Jalak games with the Guild of Greeters, or having a football game in Minkata with the Cartographers, or jumping around in the city on Skydiving excursions with the Skydivers, to name a few ideas.

But I'll admit that I came across as someone who had defined this as being a permanent change, set in stone, with no option for discussion. This was not, in any way, how I wanted to come off.

For the past few weeks, I've been doing work with the Maintainers to try and revitalize interest in Open Source and in getting people to be around more frequently. But as I've been working, I've been seeing a trend that (to me) is disturbing to watch.

The Guild Fair this weekend had a fair showing, but except for perhaps the first one, we've never actually had Kirel filled to the brim with a 50 person limit. Indeed, going back through my head, taking into account maybe 12 people in Ae'gura, 10 randomly placed in Neighborhoods, and possibly (I'm being generous) 25 people playing in their own ages, there were barely a hundred people playing Uru last night.

As I said, this (to me) is disturbing. And so came into my mind the idea of encouraging people (or as Marten said, giving them impetus) to host events to get people in-game and having fun while learning about the groups of Uru and seeing what they do.

My goal was never to upset the status of the Guild Fair or how groups operate in-cavern. It was more of my attempt to gauge whether or not people showed interest in the idea of devising and hosting events in-game. I have this very nagging feeling in the back of my head that Uru, as a whole, is slowly dying off without a high number of players constantly visiting, and through this, few to no new players coming into the Cavern.

In my mind, both of those things (constantly high player numbers and a steady stream of new players) are crucial to Uru's survival, especially in Open Source. If nothing else, the idea of getting a large number of people in-game to play around and have fun with their fellow Explorers and Guildmates (in my mind) was a fresh, bold idea that could do a great amount not only for the optimism of Explorers in Cavern, but for Uru's survival and longevity as a whole.

For people who had no idea where I was coming from last night, that's what it is. I hope some people at least share my feelings and hopes, but that is neither here nor there.

I want there to be honest discussion about the Guild Fair, and about getting people in-game and having fun even though there may be a limited number of things we can do right now. I hope you guys will be willing to help do that, and as narcissistic as it may sound, to help me through my own bumblings and mis-steps.

Once the chatlog goes live, everyone will be able to see what was said and be able to contribute their own thoughts. For now though, I just wanted to get my idea out in the open for everyone to see.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:49 am 
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I'm going to reiterate my suggestion here. Get rid of Sunday, and move the individual events to Saturday directly following the All Guilds Meeting.

I know there are some people that can't make Satuday, but there are more people that can't make Sunday. AFAIK. We won't be able to please everyone...but that's why we have chatlogs, etc.

This proposal if handled correctly could shorten the All Guilds Meeting a bit (3 hours while awesome is too long) and move some content to break-out sessions that occur afterwards. "Great question, let's discuss that at the break-out session since it isn't really news, more of a minor detail." Break-out sessions shouldn't cover major announcements - those should stay in the Meeting...only niche stuff that the general populous probably doesn't care about.

So, we aim to have a 2 hours meeting, people who want to hold break-out sessions go someone else for 30-45 minutes, and we all come back to Kirel for a final Hoorah.

In the end, it allows more information to be disseminated, by way of the attendee having the opportunity to get what /they/ want by choosing which break-out session to go to.

I know there room for improvement with my idea also...I welcome feedback. I think it's a great idea to want to capitalize on the number of people in Kirel. However, having an Events Day doesn't mean there will magically be events. People currently schedule events on their own...having a "best day" to do it...I'm not so sure. I don't think we're there yet.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:58 am 
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so no guild meeting for orthodox jews. aww.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:14 pm 
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pokemon71096 wrote:
so no guild meeting for orthodox jews. aww.


So we'll hold it on Sunday and exclude all the Christians? Read above. Can't please everyone.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:45 pm 
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sunday also excludes the australians, as monday is generally a work day. >.> (and 1pm KI-time is the early hours of the morning, the next day =P)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Marcus Wheeler wrote:
And so came into my mind the idea of encouraging people (or as Marten said, giving them impetus) to host events to get people in-game and having fun while learning about the groups of Uru and seeing what they do. ...

In my mind, both of those things (constantly high player numbers and a steady stream of new players) are crucial to Uru's survival, especially in Open Source. If nothing else, the idea of getting a large number of people in-game to play around and have fun with their fellow Explorers and Guildmates (in my mind) was a fresh, bold idea that could do a great amount not only for the optimism of Explorers in Cavern, but for Uru's survival and longevity as a whole.

Marcus, Marten and mszw (in other threads) do make good points: if people have a reason to log on to MOULa, they will do. Events and meetings can give some people that reason.

As an example that shows that things like this can work, The Meeting Place hood holds a regular weekly meeting on Sundays from 1 pm KI time (and has been meeting at this time since Prologue days, I believe). We regularly have about 10 to 20 people in the hood at this time, and each week see visitors and new players.

Often we just meet to chat and catch up with each others' news, but we also hold team trivia quizzes, storytelling sessions, and so on, and often help out explorers with door runs or other aspects of the game.

Key ideas: regular (=weekly); scheduled (=known time); location (=same start-place each week); organised by core group; welcoming and open to newcomers; respectful of all.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:59 pm 
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OHB wrote:
I'm going to reiterate my suggestion here. Get rid of Sunday, and move the individual events to Saturday directly following the All Guilds Meeting.

I know there are some people that can't make Satuday, but there are more people that can't make Sunday. AFAIK. We won't be able to please everyone...but that's why we have chatlogs, etc.

This proposal if handled correctly could shorten the All Guilds Meeting a bit (3 hours while awesome is too long) and move some content to break-out sessions that occur afterwards. "Great question, let's discuss that at the break-out session since it isn't really news, more of a minor detail." Break-out sessions shouldn't cover major announcements - those should stay in the Meeting...only niche stuff that the general populous probably doesn't care about.

So, we aim to have a 2 hours meeting, people who want to hold break-out sessions go someone else for 30-45 minutes, and we all come back to Kirel for a final Hoorah.

In the end, it allows more information to be disseminated, by way of the attendee having the opportunity to get what /they/ want by choosing which break-out session to go to.


I've read through this a few times, and I have to say that I agree. During the last meeting, even I was at fault by asking questions that go more into nit-picking details rather than general questions about the news (e.g. me asking Branan about what the PC client actually did, which is more technical than news oriented).

And as I've looked through this, and back over the ideas I had originally had, I'm starting to agree that Sunday may have to go. I'm not a big fan on this, as I'd at the least like some way for people who can't be on Saturday to keep up with the news. I know that when the chatlog goes up, there's a brief description of all the news concerning every group. Perhaps if people took that info down in a KI-mail and shot it around to anyone who missed the meeting (or if this news was incorporated into the GoMe site), we could essentially "get rid" of Sunday as part of the Guild Fair, but still allow people who don't see the forums, or simply want a quick list of updates to stay in the know even if they miss the All Guilds' Meetings.

I'm also curious as to whether or not we should bump the Guild Fair back an hour to accommodate these break-out sessions (going from 13:00 to 12:00 should work, and put a little less strain on European players). What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Marcus Wheeler wrote:
I've read through this a few times, and I have to say that I agree.


Boy, my ego LOVES posts that start with that. :)

Marcus Wheeler wrote:
...I'm starting to agree that Sunday may have to go...Perhaps if people took that info down in a KI-mail and shot it around to anyone who missed the meeting...I'm also curious as to whether or not we should bump the Guild Fair back an hour to accommodate these break-out sessions (going from 13:00 to 12:00 should work, and put a little less strain on European players)....


Dot wrote:
if people have a reason to log on to MOULa, they will do. Events and meetings can give some people that reason.


I say let's try all 3 and see how it goes. Using Dot's principle, we might get more people on Saturday as well. We can always revisit the idea. Don't make it a "this is the way things are going to be"...make it a "we're gonna try something new to see if it works better and we'll decide from there".

Also re: the KI-Mail, if someone writes up meeting minutes, Leo or someone can just copy and paste that into a KI-Mail. So that doesn't take any additional effort. It could be a blank KI that says "Meeting minutes will be posted here after the meeting..." which is handed out before hand/during by whoever and filled in later.

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Last edited by OHB on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:07 pm 
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My opinion is that these group-specific events would be better if they were organized by the groups themselves for whatever day they want. Putting them into the meeting aftermath will likely result in several sessions occurring at once, increasing the likelihood that someone will be forced to miss a meeting.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:10 pm 
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IMHO, we should still have it on saturday. hopefully the orthodox jews live in areas where it's actually sunday


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Quote:
(or if this news was incorporated into the GoMe site)

eheh, little hint for me?
I don't know why we never thought of publishing that. From now the AGM Summary will be posted on the GoMe site too.

Whil, having events at the same time is my fear too, but as Marten, Dot and others said people need a reason to come in the Cavern...more specifically also the groups need some sort of input for organizing their events, I don't see many meetings organized in these days and the Fair will provide that common date for organizing the events. Then it will be completely up to the single groups to organize the events, choosing the place and the time. Of course they are still free to organize their meeting on another day but at least we are here to provide a common day.

To organize this we need to have someone who will handle the general organization, who knows which groups is going to have a meeting in which place (and time) and this will be our role as organizators of the Fair.

Ok, the ChatLog is ready and the Summary too:
you can download the edited chat log from here

And here's the summary:
Guild of Maintainers: Marcus Wheeler is promoting a restructuring of the Guild to try to get it going once again. The idea is to create a temporary Guild Council of 2 or 3 people who will manage the "wake up" process, recruit new members and organize everything the Maintainers need to do their job.

OHB: OHB announced that his Arch-Nemesis Bevin was (is?) open for everyone to link and play with a prototype of the Bomb Robot that scared us in Ae'gura some months ago. He gave some stats for his projects: OHBot's approaching the 96,000th question asked and he's met over 2,500 people. There are over 1,100 KI numbers in the KIDirectory. Rel.to has been updated with all links to OHB's Projects. OHB's still working on resolving the problems of BabelBot with Brazilian explorers. OHB's big announcement was the ULP, Uru Localization Project, the goal of the project is to get MO:UL translated into as many languages as possible and to release language packs. It is already growing and some languages are almost ready. OHB is also working on creating new fonts for Uru since some languages will need to use other characters (Greek, Thai, etc)

Guild of Writers: Branan (aka PaladinOfKaos) has made probably the biggest annoucement of the Meeting: he is creating a new MOULClient called Plasma Client, the project is not complete yet but it works. It will be OpenSource, this means that we'll be finally able to create new features for Uru, fix some issues, etc. Examples of possible improvements are: supporting international characters, having a game compatible with the major OS (Windows, Linux, Mac), etc.
The Guild of Writers has been running a contest since May, the D'ni Location Contest, organized by KaelisEbonrai. The final date for submitting a D'ni Location to the contest was August 31st and there have been some wonderful entries. The winning entry was rustee's "Vothol Gallery". All the entries can be found on Drizzle.
And last but not least, during the last month a public GoW Shard has been opened for all the Uru:CC users. Check out the GoW Forums for more infos.

The Great Tree: Marten updated us on the status of the GT Documentaries Project. The GT Documentaries are a series of video Documentaries about the facts happened in Uru during Prologue (years 2003-2004), the projects was suspended with the announcement of the closure of MOUL but now Marten has decided to continue with it. The Team is already at work, the script for Episode 8 is ready, as well as the one for Episode 9; Marten is entering all the text in Premiere (the video editing software he uses) and when he'll finish the filming sessions will begin. The sessions always need actors so everyone is welcome to participate; the dates will be posted on the MOUL forums, GoMe website and in the Cavern Events KImail.

Guild of Messengers: The Cavern Criers are always growing and we hope to be able to cover as many timzones as possible with our News Runs, althought we still can't guarantee anything because the Criers are not required to do their job on fixed times, they enter randomly. The GoMe website is finally updated! And it has a better support for international languages and translations! We also have a new feature "Customize your RSS Feed" which allows you to receive only the news you are interested into using our Tags System. This feature may also be very useful for the groups that import our feed into their website (like MystCommunity Forums and Myst Headlines from Myst Embassy). We hope to see many groups using our Feed to import Myst related news to their forums. The GoMe Newspaper is still in development, we are creating a new Logo and news graphics. We also have many articles ready so we are getting closer to the first issue, but we don't have yet a release date. The Messengers have also been busy discussing their rules, since we didn't accept any news from any other Uru server than the official one after the Pelishard incident. But since now there are already 2 public Shards we have dicussed and we have decided we'll accept news from other shards with some little restrictions. You can read our (short) rules here

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:21 pm 
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First off, thanks guys for so much positive feedback and constructive criticism on all of this.

OHB wrote:
I say let's try all 3 and see how it goes. Using Dot's principle, we might get more people on Saturday as well. We can always revisit the idea. Don't make it a "this is the way things are going to be"...make it a "we're gonna try something new to see if it works better and we'll decide from there".


Definitely. Perhaps we should do another poll of sorts, and just get a general feel for what people live in what timezones (the ones who come to the AGM and its aftermath). If we could bump things back just a little bit, I'm sure we'd get a wider audience. 13:00 KI time is only 3PM for me on the East Coast, so hosting it an hour or even two earlier wouldn't be a problem.

On the topic of hosting events: I had an idea along the lines of a forum-wide poll. Perhaps it would be possible to compile a list of possible events (Football in Minkata, Jalak Dalor game-making contest, Group puzzles and riddles, Marker Games, etc.) and have people vote on one each month. These could take place either before or after the All Guilds' Meeting, or perhaps on Sunday or Friday. The point being that these could be events that are pre-organized, so that people who just want to come in and have fun can do so. And whatever day these are held could be separate from the Guild-oriented ones.

Again, just another idea I had.

Whilyam wrote:
My opinion is that these group-specific events would be better if they were organized by the groups themselves for whatever day they want. Putting them into the meeting aftermath will likely result in several sessions occurring at once, increasing the likelihood that someone will be forced to miss a meeting.


In line with what both you and Dot said, Whilyam, I definitely agree. If any events are held (or even the break-out sessions with the Guilds), they should be spaced reasonably far enough apart so that someone who wants to do something with a few different groups will have the chance to do so. And while I feel that it should be up to the Groups to do so, this is merely an incentive for them to join in and have a day to get into the Cavern with other Explorers.

I don't mean to say that groups don't already do this, but just the frequency of events has been low recently. I simply think organizing when some of these "events" could happen could push groups to come forward with new and exciting ideas that take place frequently enough so that their members get in-Cavern if they wouldn't normally.

Leonardo wrote:
Quote:
(or if this news was incorporated into the GoMe site)

eheh, little hint for me?


Just a little. More so because I noticed that this hadn't been on the GoMe website since we started.

But mostly just to nudge you a little bit, heh.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:34 pm 
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I like how OHB has his own section :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:39 pm 
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pokemon71096 wrote:
I like how OHB has his own section :lol:


It's good for his big, lovable ego.


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