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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:30 pm 
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Well, gang -- I think the wild, crazed Bahro are under Esher's control. They are invading, or preparing to invade. The other Bahro, the one's we've heard for so long in the cavern are Bahro in their normal state of mind.

I can imagine what happened to Wheely given Sharper's report about the Urwin. Kinda surprised Cyan went to this extreme, but man! I'm riveted to the story line now. TV? What's that?

The glyphs we've heard about may be boundary markers. "It's safe here" or "keep out."

I still wanna know if the glyph was seen in Noloben. Shaped kinda like a percent sign, only more up and down, less angle to the main body of it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Maybe the Bahro was trying to tell us how to stop the "bad Bahro" group. . . . :roll: the research and information in Escher's Noloben lab tells what symbols frighten them and which make them happy. . . . . we had access to all that and the "good Bahro" benefitted, but they also know that we had the means to rule them, we chose to help them ( at least I did) Maybe we are meant to eventually stop the crazy ones from hurting anyone again!? . . . . we might end up getting the Rosetta stone back and have control. . . . :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:47 pm 
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Shameless Plug: We are having an in-depth discussion of this :here:

:)

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:24 am 
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Geez.. gone for four measly hours and BAM!! Drama! :lol:

This seems to explain why 1 second, that Bahro was *clearly* helping and protecting Wheely... then in the next breath... ugliness. :cry:

Another one [or several] linked in and killed her. :cry:

I'm with the person who said it didn't seem safe in Negilahn anymore.. crack or no crack.. they don't need one! YIKES! :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:33 am 
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Esereht got to his post about being a slave vs being 'weak' before I could post much the same point. And, I agree with him - about that point - 100%. Thinking that because someone or some group has been long enslaved and so, therefore they must be weak is so far off the mark that I'm actually surprised it's been twice asserted. Not only has history showed that to be absolutely utterly false, there's also no logical connection that would justify that claim in any way.

The Bahro may have been slaves for countless decades, but that in no way translates into thinking they are weak, or weak willed or indecive or anything along that direction.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:07 am 
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zack wrote:
Esereht got to his post about being a slave vs being 'weak' before I could post much the same point. And, I agree with him - about that point - 100%. [Emphasis mine]


Psst... I'm a girl. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:07 am 
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[spoiler]
I'm starting to think another possiblity, is that the Bahro might have split into factions, also. Some thinking that all of Humanity/D'ni (we're trying to restore D'ni...so it goes without saying that they would believe we side with any D'ni beliefs/actions) is bad, and should be eradicated for the horrible crimes against them on Noloben. And those, who think that Noloben is an isolated incident, and not the general consensus of all of D'ni/Humanity.

There's also the possbility that Esher did find a way to control them. Scary thought. They've been inslaved before, so it goes without saying, that Esher may have found that way to enslave them.
[/spoiler][/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:31 am 
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I think the "Esher gaining control over some Bahro" idea is incredibly plausible. Question I now have is what could we ever do about it! :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:12 am 
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I dont this has to do with Esher. I think the Bahro has split with half of them blaming all humans for the actions of the D'ni and Esher and the others recognising us as different to D'ni and not trying to save us from the others. its similar to teh BoA


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:42 am 
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Esereht wrote:
Psst... I'm a girl.


OOPS!!! Apologies!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:09 am 
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I'm not convinced that Escher is controlling them. The Bahro were presumably enslaved for a long time and suddenly they were set free. Perhaps part of what is happening is a result of their new-found freedom and (perhaps) a feeling of lack of direction. If a Bahro leader comes along (or more than one), many of the other Bahro may decide "let's follow him". Presumably the previous enslavement was something they were compelled to do and were unable to resist. Now it's more confusing because choice and free will are involved.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:21 am 
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zack wrote:
Esereht got to his post about being a slave vs being 'weak' before I could post much the same point. And, I agree with him - about that point - 100%. Thinking that because someone or some group has been long enslaved and so, therefore they must be weak is so far off the mark that I'm actually surprised it's been twice asserted. Not only has history showed that to be absolutely utterly false, there's also no logical connection that would justify that claim in any way.

The Bahro may have been slaves for countless decades, but that in no way translates into thinking they are weak, or weak willed or indecive or anything along that direction.


Uh I never mentioned anything about weakness in my post that Esereht replied to, I merely questioned how easy it might prove to enslave creatures that can instantaneously shred a living creature. To confuse that with real life slavery in our own world is a little simplistic, but to follow your argument I would say that in order to enslave a creature or person one must have the greater force of numbers or weaponry and as far as the bahro are concerned it would appear that they are both numerous and deadly which is why I asked my original question.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:31 am 
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Have we seen any connection to Escher other than the mention the Age he inhabited? While he's certainly a plausible cause, I'm finding this whole war to be strongly reminiscent of The Book of Dni, and how when the 'bahro' there finally get their freedom, many strike out in anger, and try to set themselves up as rulers of their own kind. The oppressed become the oppressor. It's a bit of an oxymoron I suppose to say that 'the Bahro are only human', but at the same time I imagine that like us they're individuals, plagued by conflicting emotions and their own (in)ability to cope with their newfound freedom. In the case of the Book of Dni, there was Atrus as the voice of reason convincing many of the previous slaves to take to the higher path, and to try and resist the actions of their brethren... but then there's no Atrus this time around, unless we can somehow contact Yeesha to act in the same position as he did.

*shrugs* As I said, Escher, while plausible, just seems a bit to simple. If other Bahro, justifiably angry over their long enslavement and then subsequent torture by Escher, were to have stumbled upon his notes and research... An angry Bahro, armed with that kind of knowledge for controlling its brethren... a civil war between the Barho seems much more likely than one manipulating bad guy operating behind the scenes.

The other thing is, why now? If it were Escher, and he were that manipulative and controlling, it doesn't seem like it'd be his tactic to strike down little girls or toy with Sharper. Someone like that would have small groups of Bahro making quick, surgical strikes to take out those he considered a threat to his plans as quietly as possible. This just seems much more chaotic. Much less controlled. The only reason I can think of for this to happen now, is the large influx of explorers, and the massive increase in freed Bahro as a result of our Journeys. Barho who, after being freed, were left alone to their own devices without any further direct interaction with us.

I don't know, just throwing speculation out there. Just have this eerie feeling that it's not so simple as one evil mastermind like Escher, and that somehow, we're partially responsible.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:40 pm 
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Solleth wrote:
...

The other thing is, why now? If it were Escher, and he were that manipulative and controlling, it doesn't seem like it'd be his tactic to strike down little girls or toy with Sharper. Someone like that would have small groups of Bahro making quick, surgical strikes to take out those he considered a threat to his plans as quietly as possible. This just seems much more chaotic. Much less controlled. The only reason I can think of for this to happen now, is the large influx of explorers, and the massive increase in freed Bahro as a result of our Journeys. Barho who, after being freed, were left alone to their own devices without any further direct interaction with us.

...


It could be chaotic or it could be an attack to send out a message. Don't explore further or we're going to get nasty. Wheely was effectively an Explorer in a new area.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:55 pm 
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True, hadn't thought of that! The Bahro always did seem to have a more... primal, I guess would be the word, social structure and individual behavior, at least in what I've read thus far, having not played Uru: CC or Myst V.

That being said though, this level of violence is an entirely new development. One would think that were they trying to deliver a forceful message, they would have started with making a more imposing show of things, like a bear when you try to enter its den... not wait until you're already inside, where potentially you'll die and no one would ever hear about it. Seems there's more... cruelty involved in the act of Wheely's death. Im thinking on how they lured Sharper out into the open... maybe luring the girls into the cave was a similar tactic? *shrugs and ponders*

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