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 Post subject: Reteltee interview
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:00 pm 
Obduction Backer

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Location: Brighton and Hove, england
The live Reteltee interview I conducted last sunday on URU Radio is avaliable now for download at. ... erview.mp3

Listen in this sunday for Guild interviews from some members of the community !

The ending will never be written as long as the called remain to continue on the path of those who came before

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:26 pm 
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Okay... who's going to make a transcript? :P

Atrus aka Nahvah aka Ian Pertwee aka too many darn names :D
KI# 52953

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm 

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:12 pm
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Location: Houston
Interesting Interview..........

The most immediate fact out of the interview is that the Pubs will be similar to the Watchers Sanctuary, except Guild themed.

Edit : Ok I just finished the interview, My already good opinion of Reteltee has gone up another notch or two.

P.S. Transcribing the interview to text; However while worth while, is going to be some heavy weather for who ever has the guts to try. :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:49 pm 
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Well, Reteltee definitely sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. That's good. He navigated back and forth between OOC and IC pretty well.

It's nice to hear that Cyan/the DRC seems to have learned from previous lessons and are actually discussing things with Reteltee (and actually have plans to discuss). The failure of the DRC Liaison situation was primarily one of lack of support from Cyan and the DRC, leaving the Liaisons to deal with explorer demands without support or capability. Essentially, they were thrown to the wolves in the community without proper support or direction. I'd hate to see that happen again.

However, I suggest that Reteltee sit down with the former liaisons so he understands what the potential pitfalls are of being in such a position. He says he doesn't want to be seen as a liaison, yet it sounds like his charter from the DRC isn't really all that different from those of the DRC Liaisons (at least as the DRC put it).

Your story is Unwritten.
Unwritten - Adventures in the Ages of Myst and Beyond
MOULagain KI#27460 - Second Life: Vax Sirnah

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:34 am 
Former MystOnline Moderator

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Thanks for the interview Samsbase and Reteltee.
I feel a bit sorry for Mr. Laxman now, though. ;) :lol:
@ Blade: In an ideal world, I would like to get together with all involved or watching back then (with an archive at hand) and calmly and rationally discuss about what went wrong and who made which mistakes and miraculously no feelings would get hurt greatly, no flames would rise again, but we could learn from the mistakes. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. Sad, really.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:41 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 am
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I'm going to listen through the interview once, then I'll start compiling a transcript. Whether it gets finished depends on what goes on tomorrow...I may have plans, I may not, so someone else may beat me to it.

EDIT: The listening is done, so the transcription will begin. This is going to take a while...

EDIT2: Moving the transcription to the end, so it is more obvious that it is complete.

KI # 03593691 (Samuel Churchill)

Last edited by Hawkin on Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:54 am 
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Thank you an awful lot, Hawkin! My home computer's internet is down and the school computer I'm using here has no sound. So at last I'm beginning to learn what Reteltee is saying. Thanks again! 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 am
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You're quite welcome, Jennifer. (I see that you posted this about an hour ago, so if you're still about, I just posted a rather large segment.)

That being said, I'm going to take a break for a few minutes (for any who might be following along as I go) to give my eyes and ears a rest, and then will continue.

KI # 03593691 (Samuel Churchill)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:52 pm 
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Just a note, the interview recording is a heavily edited version of the whole nights recording due to Reteltee being late, nothing he said was missed however so dont worry :) the reason i say this as we were having technical problems, so any inaudibility on the recording is due to the method we were using to make the interview (not ideal at all). Hope it's better this sunday !

The ending will never be written as long as the called remain to continue on the path of those who came before

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 am
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It wasn't that big of a problem, I didn't miss anything particularly important. I mostly included the little inserts as clarification in case someone who has listened to the recording was confused.

Anyway, moved from the post above to here, where it may be a bit easier to notice:

The transcription is finally complete (after about 9 hours of work). As a note for any reading this:
[...] is a short segment that does not contain anything important (static, stutters, etc.)
(?) means I am not 100% sure about the previous word for some reason (static, unclear speech, etc.)
[???] means I am not sure of a word or two at all, and couldn't even make a guess at it

[spoiler]Samsbase: Shorah beshemtee and welcome to this night's special edition of Sam's Base, the weekend round-up show that I'll
be giving each week at 9 o'clock GMT in the evening which is about 2 PM Cavern Time. It's a two hour long show, 2 PM
through 4 PM Cavern Time in the afternoon. Ok, basically, finally on the show we've got Reteltee. I heard you had an
apology for the community.

Reteltee: Yes, I did want to say sorry to everyone to everyone who was expecting me earlier. I totally borked the time
conversion in my head and missed it by about an hour. So, my apology, I am a bit late, I don't like to do that, but, I
hope everyone will be kind and gentle to me.

Samsbase: Fantastic. So basically, I've got a few questions for you, and I'm just going to first try and get the
community to see some stuff about you, basically, really, to be honest. FIrstly, do you have...what's your background
in the community? Did you join...when did you join in Uru, were you here in Prologue, or Beta before that, or are you
a recent Explorer in the Cavern?

Reteltee: No, I've actually been a part of Uru since about January, so I was part of the Prologue before everything went
Live in February. I started posting to the forums back then, I was working with Earthwizard, primarily, who helped start
the Assembly of Guilds and was instrumental in that. He and I had a number of conversations about the Guilds way back in
the Prologue, it was something we had wanted to focus on. And then I switched jobs, and so I was actually out of the
Cavern for a few weeks, and in that amount of time there was a lot of work that was done on the Guilds in my absence, and
I was very impressed when I did come back to see what happened. But I've been part of Urusine the Prologue, I've been a
fan of the Myst games since I was very young. I played all of the games, I read all of the books. I've been an active
follower of the development of the Myst mythology and whatnot, so it's been something of a passion of mine for a number
of years. And I played Uru as the stand-alone, unfortunately, at the time I didn't have a good enough internet connection
to play on the shards when Uru was just the stand-alone game but I did get the chance to play it, and just enjoyed it very
thoroughly. So, I was very happy when I saw that Gametap had picked it up and think it was a very good choice for them to
do, and yeah, I've been a member of the community for quite some time now.

Samsbase: Well, that's fantastic. So you weren't around for the original Uru: Ages Beyond Myst game, but you have been
here since the Gametap edition.

Reteltee: Right, well I wasn't a part of the online community during the Ages Beyond Myst stand-alone era because I only
had access to a stand-alone computer that didn't have an internet connection, but I have been a part of the Uru community
since it was picked up by Gametap.

Samsbase: That's fantastic. Do you approve of this whole thing with Gametap? Do you approve of the [...] way that Cyan
and Gametap are working together? It seems that Gametap may be restricting Cyan slightly at the moment.

Reteltee: I think there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes with the Cyan/Gametap deal. After what happened with
Ubisoft, which I don't particularly want to delve into, I know there's a lot of sentiment, a lot of very...some hurt
feelings, and rightfully so, after what happened with Ubisoft. And so Gametap, in the beginning, seemed to be a sort of
knight in shining armor, so to speak, coming to the rescue, and now it seems as though Gametap has a motive other than
just saving something they saw as a good intellectual property acquisiton for them to make. So I think there's some
mixed feelings, I certainly feel somewhat ambivalent about the Gametap situation, and I just hope that Cyan is able to
make it a good business deal for them on the backend so that Uru stays alive this time.

Samsbase: Yes, well, absolutely. One question, that I've been given in, delving straight into Cyan with the Guilds before
we try to go into some in-character stuff. The question was "Cyan has communicated conflicting information about the
future of the Guilds. In one place they say they have plans, and another they say they aren't going to tell Explorers
how to run them. What is the plan, what should we be doing in terms or organizing Guilds?

Reteltee: That will absolutely be listened to; the DRC has made it very clear that that is part of my responsibility as
the Guild Advisor is to take those ideas back to the DRC with a sort of color (?) commentary, sort of the "Here's what
people are saying and doing, and here's what this actually means for the Explorer community at large. And so I think
that it will definitely be listened to. I can't say for certain what they'll ultimately decide in terms of how to
implement those ideas and what will become of them, but I absolutely am 100% certain that they will listen to them. If
they do what they said they'll do with me, and listen to me, because I'm taking those ideas, that's the information that
I'm taking back to the DRC.

Samsbase: Fantastic. On that note, you're talking about you basically using the dreaded word, if you were around the
end of Until Uru. We're basically talking about a Liason system here, aren't we? You liasing with the DRC, being a
connection with the Explorers.

Reteltee: I certainly hope not.

Samsbase: So you think this is going to work out in a better way than the ill-fated DRC Liason situation that happened
last year.

Reteltee: I sincerely hope so, I have absolutely no desire to be anything remotely equivalent to a Liason. And I've
tried very hard to make sure that the Explorer community recognizes that the role that I've been asked to fill is
different. It seem similar on the surface, and it doesn have similarities, but it is not the same. And the number one
difference is that my responsibility is not to just take information between the DRC and the Explorer community but to
listen to those ideas and then present my own ideas as informed by the Explorer community. In other words, I'm not a
representative of anyone in particular, which is one of the reasons why you'll notice that I haven't selected a Guild
shirt. I don't want to be perceived as picking sides at this point, because that's not my place, my place is to be
sort of as objective a listener and idea repository as possible and that's my role, and I feel that that's very
different from the Liasons fiasco that we experienced at the end of Until Uru.

Samsbase: A lot of people are probably relieved to hear that, actually. [...] As you know, there were so many problems
surrounding the elections and everything like that, and I think it was a good idea that they decided to resign, in the
end. Very, very good idea. So, bascially, on that note, you're talking to the's got to be an in-character,
a sort of IC sort of relationship there, because you're talking to the DRC, which is not an Out of Character organization.
You can't say, the Guild of Writers always comes up, are you going to release 3D modeling tools to us, or something like
that, or a plugin for 3D Studio. You can't be saying that, I mean how are you envisaging that sort of OOC thing happening
with you, or is that all going to come from Cyan through different sources?

Reteltee: Well, that's actually a good question, and I'm not entirely sure what the Out of Cavern experience will look
like in terms of what my responsibilities entail. I do have methods of communication that are not limited purely to the
In Cavern abilities that our avatars possess in terms of like email and things of that nature. I do have a method of
communication that is somewhat more direct than that and you could say is Out of Cavern. However, the focus is on In
Cavern development because at this point, I am an Explorer and that's all I am, I am nothing different than the Explorer
part of the community.

Samsbase: All right there, I was going to head to a music break...

[music interlude]

Samsbase: Welcome back, Reteltee. I hope you enjoyed that, everyone listening, basically I'm going to jump straight
back into a question I've been given to give you, Reteltee.

Reteltee: Okay.

Samsbase: Is there been any talk with the DRC on how leaders and organizers for the Guild are going to be chosen?

Reteltee: There has been talk, but nothing has been given to me officially to pass along in terms of how the structure
will look, but there has been talk and there has been discussion amongst the DRC.

Samsbase: All right, then, it seems that that's a bit of a closed topic. I'm sure there's more you can't tell us on
that one.

Reteltee: I'm afraid so. My policy is to give all of the information I have been told I can give as openly and freely
as possible, but if it's something at which I'm not at liberty to say, then I have no choice but to protect the DRC's

Samsbase: Exactly.

Reteltee: Lest they take away this opportunity to discuss with them.

Samsbase: I'm assuming, though, that some of the efforts of some of the prominent members of the community won't go
unnoticed in that regard of choosing Guild leaders and things like that.

Reteltee: Not if I have anything to say about it at all.

Samsbase: So people like Paradox, and the H'Uru community, who've been seen doing, basically hacking Uru for years,
now, starting with the Alcugs project. Which brought on the rise of Until Uru and then recently, Alcugs also let
people import, I don't know if you knew, let people import their own Blender created Ages into Uru. Very simply stuff,
I mean, [...] you'd have to go into the Guild of Writers community, there's some Alcugs stuff, and there's an Age called
Ahra Pahts, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. It's A-H-R-A P-A-H-T-S, and that was created through the use of
Alcugs and things like that. So the people running those sort of...running those organizations and building these Ages,
basically out of nothing, that got to hold some weight, even with the DRC as an in-character organization.

Reteltee: I'm trying to think of the best way to respond to that. In terms of [...] I can't [...] Specific people
and groups I can't neccessarily address, but I can say that, in general, the DRC does keep track of what happens in
terms of player groups and who's doing the work. I also do the same, I read forums, I look at who's posting, who's
organizing, I look at who's active, and who's making an impact in the community, and I take those names to the DRC when
asked, and I've already done so with several people. And the fact that the Guild of Greeters is one of the five
recognized Guilds is partly directly related to the information that I gave to the DRC when they asked me, "What five
would you say should be the first to be released? My response was the Guild of Greeters deserves recognition for the
work that they've done.

Samsbase: Absolutely, absolutely, Guild of Greeters probably the most important Guild being created in the Cavern. I
think you'll probably agree, so far.

Reteltee: Absolutely, absolutely, and the fact that they've committed so much and so much engery into doing this kind of
work for the people who are new to the Cavern, I think is just phenominal. And so far, you know, there hadn't been
any...the work was its own reward, for sure, but there wasn't any official recognition of them, and I think to get that
official recognition is something that is very, very well deserved, and I'm glad the DRC listened to that.

Samsbase: Yeah, of course, because the Guild of Greeters, as an organization it wasn't actually an organization in the
time of the D'ni, was it, so that must have been a big decision for the DRC to make, having that in there.

Reteltee: Absolutely, and the DRC is smart enough to recognize that the D'ni Guilds were flexible. They developed as the
needs arose for that particular Guild to be the functional foundation of the D'ni society. So for them to recognize that
the Guild of Greeters are a functional foundation (?) for the Uru Explorer society, and I think it was a very intelligent
decision on their part.

Samsbase: Well, absolutely, I mean, talk to any of the new Uru Explorers, you'll say, "So what did you do when you went
into the Cavern? Where did you try"...I mean, I'm sure everyone was like, "Oh, it's an online experience, let's try to
find new people." Where do you go? You go to the most populated Bevins and in the classroom in every single Bevin,
including your own one, it says go to the Guild of Greeters, they'll be happy to help. So, you know, I think the survival
of Uru, I would go as far as saying, Uru being put back on Live, after it was shut down originally, was probably in no
small part due to the Greeters keeping people interested and keeping new players interested. Because it's quite a
daunting community, isn't it? I mean, if you look at...if you go to one of the upper MMO games, if you take World of
Warcraft, if you take...well, there's really quite a lot of them, you take Everquest, you take Lord of the Rings Online,
you get in, and the minute you're in, you know what to do, to be honest, I mean it doesn't really change until the end
of the game, does it? I mean, you start off, you've got your character, you level it up, and all that sort of stuff, and
you kill the monsters, you get the equipment, you kill the bigger monsters. In Uru, it's not that simple, is it? You
get in, and what to do? You're on this island, well, now you are, you're on this island in the middle of nowhere, you
don't have any idea what you're doing, but somehow you need to get in on this whole storyline, which is going on in the
Cavern with all this really deep, deep stuff, which is just not there on the outset. So, the Guild of Greeters getting
people past that big barrier at the start, is, I think, is one of the saving factors of the Cavern itself. So, it's
fantastic that they're now a recognized Guild.

Reteltee: Absolutely.

Samsbase: Is it possible, in the future, that we're going to see more Guilds added to that list of five? One that's been
mentioned to me is the Guild of Archivists, and I'm sure there's others, like Minor Guilds, and things like that, which
there might be some need for them in the future. Say, if the GUild of Writers needs another team of people to help [???],
there might want to be a Minor Guild created or something like that. With these sort of newer Guilds coming on the
horizon, would they there a place for them in the DRC's big plan for that, or are they going to stick to these
five and not listen to anything else?

Reteltee: Well, I certainly hope not, I certainly that there are more Guilds on the way. I know the DRC's goal is to
eventually resurrect, or I should say more appropriately, restore the Guild structure as it existed in D'ni. Not at the
Fall of D'ni as we read about it in the Book of Tiana, but as it existed when Ri'niref brought his band of Ronay to the
Cavern. The Guild structure as it was intended to be from the beginning, that's what the DRC's ultimate vision is, in
this restoration process. And so, that's going to entail a lot more Guilds than just the five that have been named
currently. But the difficulty I know for the DRC is time. There has to be a precept first, and a foundation laid, and
then you can build upon it. And right now we're still sort of in the planning stage of looking at what are the precepts
we are going to adhere to as members of Guilds. And it's fundamental to the D'ni society, and it's fundamental to the Uru
community in the same way. And I think that the Guilds are going to turn into something that is extremely, extremely
in-depth and engaging and interesting and intriguing, and there's going to be all kinds of different things that are going
to come into play with that. But we ahve to start somewhere, so I know the DRC is really focusing on getting these five,
getting the structure in place, and then taking the structure to the other Guilds as they are slowly restored to what they
were always intended to be. I know there's lots of room for a Guild of Miners, a Guild of Surveyors, they have...there's
so much work they could do in the Cavern and in the restoration process. There could be a Guild of Stonemasons, it was
one of the major Guilds (?) in D'ni, as well as some of the, you know, more intangible Guilds like the Legislators and
the Archivists who focused more on knowledge as opposed to action. But there's so much room in the Cavern for these
Guilds to exist that I can't imagine the DRC limiting the Guilds to just these five.

Samsbase: That's fantastic. You mentioned that the DRC want to get kind of the original Guild setup, that you mentioned,
that Ri'niref brough in with the original group of Ronay that came into the Cavern of D'ni. I mean, how much is known
about that system? I mean, do you yourself know much about that system, I mean, lots of listeners are interesting in
knowing what sort of system that they're working toward is.

Reteltee: Certainly, well, one of the reasons the DRC asked me to be their Guild advisor is that they basically tested me
on my knowledge of the Guilds and wanted to know what I knew. I presented the information that I had from my own research
and my own study, and it passed musters as far as they were concerned. In fact, that was something I got directly from
Marie was that she was impressed with my knowledge of the Guilds. Now, I don't say that to brag, I say that only to give
context as to why it is sort of my passion to present this sort of information because I have studied the Guilds in depth,
and I can tell you that the Guild structure, as it was originally intended, was sort of to provide the sort of checks and
balances that we are supposedly supposed to have here in the United States. To limit the executive power, in the D'ni
case, the king from becoming a tyrant. It was essentially a check against that. It was the common people having a voice
through a structure that had a very real purpose and a very real focus. So, you know, it wasn't a political party, you
know the Guild of Miners and the Guild of Surveryors weren't politcal competitors, per se, they both had their own
particular role, but at the same time they were responsible for representing their members in the D'ni council. And to
see that, to see that played out over the ages, especially once the Age of Kings ended and the Guilds became the rule of
law, excuse me, the final say of the rule of law in the Cavern, it really is a dramatic shift in the original intent.
I'm not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing, I'm not saying that Kerath made a mistake necessarily in abolishing the
position of the king, but the original design of the Guilds was not necessarily as the final say in law, but it was rather
to balance the society so that the common people had a voice, so that the Guilds had a purpose and a focus and so that
politics didn't become an end unto itself. Politics were supposed to be a means to an end, and the end was supposed to be
the prosperity and the survival of the D'ni people. Unfortunately, that mentality was lost, and the result of it is the
destruction that we see in the Cavern today.

Samsbase: Yeah, so, in intrigrating that sort of mentality into the present-day Cavern, with the Explorers and the DRC
working together, would you see whoever ends up being the five Guildmasters, because there will be five Guildmasters, I'm
pretty sure of that, but I'm sure you're quite sure of that as well, there will be some sort of heirarchy, it can't be a
free-for-all, otherwise there's no structure and nothing will ever get done. So, whoever ends up being the five
Guildmasters, will that mean they have sort of say, or quite a large say, in how the Restoration goes ahead? Will DRC
accept them as a balancing counterpoint, e.g. at the moment we've got...well, there's the voting system in the DRC, which
is, as everyone's seen, from the last few weeks, we've now got Cate having the deciding vote in all DRC votes, which is,
basically, a very, very corrupt system in a lot of the Explorers' eyes. We've not been able to talk to her about it, but
a lot of people are very unhappy about that. Would you see...

Reteltee: Understandably.

Samsbase: Yeah, understandably. I mean, because, at the moment, if something is to be restored or not restored, or
anything is going to happen in the Cavern, it ends at that vote between the DRC council members. Now, seeing as we've
lost Watson, and we've lost Engberg, well, for whatever time, and well, now what, we've got Kodama, we've got Cate, and
we've got Marie, and we've got...who are the voting members of the DRC? Kodama, Cate, Marie, and...yeah, that's it, at
the moment, isn't it? Because...

Reteltee: Yeah, that's it at the moment.

Samsbase: Yeah, because Michael left, so that's the three we've got. So, in a tie-breaker situation...I think there must
be one, Kodama, Cate...sorry, my brain's gone completely blank, but basically, in any tie-breaker situation,
Cate's going to have the deciding vote. So, do you envision the Guildmasters being a sort of counterpoint to that, saying
"Wait a minute, you've made this vote to say 'We're going to close the Pub.'" for whatever reason, say the roof caves in
in the Pub, and the DRC say, "No, it's unsafe, we're closing it." But then the Guild of Maintainers say, "Wait a minute,
it's actually safe. We've surveyed this. The Cartographers have gone in, we've gone in, we've surveyed this, it's okay,
it's safe, nothing else is going to fall down." Do you see the Guildmasters being able to say that sort of thing to the
DRC in the future, and actually have some sort of, I hesitate to say power, because that's exactly one of the reasons that
we don't want Guilds is because of the sort of power struggle involved in getting them there, which was seen in the end of
the original D'ni occupation of the Cavern. If you see what I mean, some sort of counterpoint to the DRC being in the
council of Guildmasters. Do you see that happening, in the future, or do you think the DRC are always going to sit there
on top of the Guildmasters and not really take much notice?

Reteltee: Well, if I think if the DRC is as smart as I think they are, they will listen to the duly elected Guildmasters
once that structure is in place and once the Explorers speak in that manner, I hope that they will listen to the ones
tasked with directing this very important aspect of Explorer society. That being said, I can't say for certain whether
the DRC will ever share their power, so to speak, with the Explorers. And I don't mean that to say that they are a cabal
of conniving and masochistic power-mongers, because I don't think they are, I think they really do have the Explorers'
best interest at heart. I think at the same time that they realize that their responsibilities are greater than just the
Explorers, and that's unfortunate that they can't be focused just solely on the Explorer community, that they have to
worry about things that are on the surface, such as funding, but that's the world in which we live. So they do the best
that they can with it. I've not lost hope that Watson will return. I sincerely, sincerely hope that he does. We need
his voice...

Samsbase: We do, we do.

Reteltee: And we need his wisdom, I mean, we desperately do. But, at the same time, wherever he is, I'm sure he's doing
something very important. And as far as Engberg, I hope that he is able to deal with his grief and return to us a
stronger and wiser person, and I sincerely hope that we have not seen the last of him, but I can understand the pain that
he must be going through. And it's a confusing time for the DRC, as well. I mean, you know, they're dealing with each of
these things as they happen just as we are as Explorers, but they realize that in some way they bear the responsibility
for these things that happen. And I'm sure that any time somebody is injured or killed, I'm sure the DRC look at
themselves in the mirror and ask themselves, "Are we making a mistake in even bringing people down here?" So, there's a
lot to it, and I don't want to show (?) for the DRC, I don't want to come across as saying, "Oh, the DRC's great, and
they're good, and everything they do is fine," because I don't believe that. I believe that it is a mistake for Cate to
have two votes on the council. I think that's just one audacious thing she's done in taking over, but, you know, I don't
get to make that call. And if the DRC is willing to work (?) with her, even in that situation, then I say, okay, that's
their choice. I pray, sincerely, that they will continue this trend of listening more and more to the Explorers. When
the Guild structure is in place, the Guildmasters will have a very important role in that, and I hope that they will

Reteltee: Yes, I think that's a fantastic question, a very valid one. I know, at least from the In-Cavern perspective
is that Cyan, vis-a-vis the DRC, has some specific plans and goals as to what the Guilds will eventually look like.
That being said, at this stage of development, the onus is really on the Explorers to make the Guilds happen, to
organize, to come up with ideas, to create something of a structure. And what I think is going to end up happening is
the DRC is going to step in, take a look at the structure that is being developed, and say, "OK, this is the direction
that we want want to go," and give some more specific definitions. That's my understanding of how the Guilds are going
to shape up, but at this point, it's really upon us Explorers to make the Guilds happen. Whether or not that ends up
being officially recognized by the DRC is ultimately irrelevant because we're still doing it, and the work itself will
have rewards.

Samsbase: So, am I to understand you that all the people on the forums and at the moment there's quite a few sects of
the community now, seeming to divide off into the five, well four new Guilds, and the people who are going to be
Greeters have gone to Greeters anyway. But I've seen quite a few of the media outlets, such as CCN, TCT, and myself,
we've been talking about the Guild of Messengers since that came out. And Eleri, before she stopped doing D'net, but
I'm sure she's going to be around for the Guild of Messengers, there's been quite a lot of talk about that. So, all
this organization that we've been doing; buying domain names, setting up forums, talking about sort of Guild systems
is not going to be ignored by Cyan. So when I say,basically, I think it's a good idea for them...say the community
at large said, "In the Guild of Messengers,we want it to be a closed system (I'll talk about this later), but want it
to be a closed system with just some high ranking members of the media community giving all their sources of news
into one big mixing pot and then taking it out, but not having the Guild of Messengers be a news outlet in itself, that
sort of thing is worth talking about. Now, seeing as the DRC and Cyan might say in the future, "Oh, no, that's not
how we want it," but if we talk about it now, that will definitely be listened to.

Samsbase: Well, that's great to hear that, to hear that the DRC are actually listening, because often the Explorer
community does feel that we are pushing ahead, trying to get things organized without much of the DRC listening, but
knowing that the DRC is there, if only as an observation kind of viewpoint on the Explorer community, it is great to know
that whatever we're doing is being overseen and the problems that we go through in the Cavern are being noticed so, you
know, in the future, it's just going to be better, in the end. Moving onwards, to a more OOC kind of standpoint. The big
question on the Guild of Maintainers, which is being talked about and talked about and talked about in the forums, and
nobody really has any idea how it is going to work, because there's so many conflicting views. Basically, you
have any idea, I mean, you've talked to the DRC more than we have, do you have any idea how, in the end, they're expecting
the Guild of Maintiners to work, because we look at the Guild of Maintainers, and, on the sheet in Kirel, it says they
will be the first people into each Age. From an IC, from an in-character standpoint, yeah, fine, they'll go into an Age
and structurally check everything. Now, also, from an OOC standpoint, wait, that's going to put so much strain on Cyan
making systems for them actually doing that. It's not going to work, so, in the end, it's probably going to go, the
kind of talk in the forums is suggesting that it's going to go to a more bug-testing kind of standpoint. So they're going
to possibly get Ages before the general public and bug test it and submit reports to Cyan, and then kind of put an in-
character face on it for their in-character publications with the DRC. Now, people say that, and that would be absolutely
fine, but on the other hand, you've got the Rehearsal community, but they're already there in a bug-testing kind of way,
so having Maintainers there would be seen as kind of a waste of time, since they, Cyan, have already got bug-testers
there, so how do you think the DRC envisions, as well as Cyan, envisions the GUild of Maintainers working, seeing as they
can't just purely be bug-testers, otherwise there's no point in having the group.

Reteltee: Right, your original question was do I have any idea how the Guild of Maintainers will function, I'm
paraphrasing, forgive me, will function once the structure is in place and there is a more formal idea, I guess,
foundational idea in place for them. The answer to that is "Yes, I do have an idea," the details of which I,
unfortunately, am not at liberty to delve into at this point because the DRC is not ready at this point to announce that
particular information. When they are, I'll be at liberty to discuss it.

Samsbase: And you'll always be welcome on Uru Radio to make any announcements, I'm sure. We welcome any exclusives.

[both laugh]

Reteltee: Umm...

Samsbase: But...yeah?

Reteltee: Oh, nothing, I was just going to say that I apologize again, and that I don't try to be mysterious
intentionally. The only time I in any way shape or form engage in obstrufication is when I have no choice, so this is one
of those situations.

Samsbase: Absolutely. So, looking at that, though, you are saying that the Maintainers won't be there as just another
level of bug-testing for Cyan, because they've probably got way too many already, and just having everyone bug-testing
everything in different levels would ruin all the excitment of the game, if everyone is getting the content at different
points. You know, you've got Cyan having it at one point, then Rehearsal having it at another point, then the
Maintainers having it, and there's hardly any, it's really only the new Explorers in the community getting the new
content last, and everything will have been spoiled for them by the time it comes out. So you're saying the Maintainers
won't just be sitting there OOC submitting bug tickets and some bug reports

Reteltee: Absolutely not. And bear in mind that Maintainers bore a lot more responsibility than looking at Books and
Maintaining Books. They were sort of a general purpose deal in a lot of ways. They were the [...] fire fighters, they
were the polce, they were the jailors, they were the, I mean, they Maintained a lot more than just Books, so it's
important to recognize that there are a lot of aspects of the Guild of Maintainers that we have yet to delve into that
certainly have a place within the Cavern. And, especially if things continue as they are with the Bahro, you know, I'm
the last person who wants to enforce any type of police or military force within the Cavern (?), but if it's necessary
to protect the Explorers, then I'm all for the Maintainers having a role in that, if need be, because the Explorers'
safety comes first, as far as I am concerned. And I know the DRC feel the same way.

Samsbase: So do you see the Maintainers in that way, seeing as they were, it's been stated by the DRC and it's been
stated in various publications given out by the DRC, that there was, that the Maintainers were a police in Cavern. And
if you do go into Gahreesen, or Garrison, or whatever you want to call it, you do see that that was a very high security
area, I mean, I've never seen any place on Earth that high security. Not ground access, basically no roof
access either, and there was a prison in there, of course, where people were being kept. Do you see the Maintainers
taking that sort of role, or do you think their power levels should take a dip from the time at which, because obviously
that was a very late Age that was written because that Age was written around the same time as the KI device was being
given out to the D'ni society, which is about the same time as the Fall. So do you see that sort of power being given
back, or do you see the DRC kind of trying to keep them at bay and make sure that they're there at an operational
standpoint as opposed to more of an enforcement standpoint?

Reteltee: Well, I hope they're only needed from an operational standpoint, again, I couch all of my statements of the
Maintainers as a police force, or as a firefighting force, for that matter, only in terms of necessity and I'm a very
big believer in personal freedom and liberty, especially in the Cavern. You know, no Explorer should have to be in fear
that a Maintainer's going to club them on the head and take them off to Maintainer jail, right? I don't think that's what
anybody wants. So I hope that the DRC will only give the Maintainers that responsiblity and that power in that sense as
is necessary. And I also think that the other Guilds can act as a check on the Maintainers as well, you know, if the
Maintainers start to get out of line, the other Guilds can serve as a buffer between the whole of Uru society and the
Maintainers. So I think the system itself might have those checks and balances built into it. I'm not entirely certain,
because I'm not exactly certain what the system will look like in every aspect, but you know, I think those will be
problems that we will have to deal with at some point, and I think it will be largely up to the Explorers in terms of how
much power we give, I mean, ultimately power comes down to this: a person only has as much power over you as you give
them. I mean, at the end of the day, that's the truth of it. The power to take something away from you is not really
power at all, anybody can do that. The power to give something, that's (?) true power, so if the Maintainers have the
power to protect and the power to give freedom, security, liberty to the Explorers, then I don't have a problem with them
having that power. But if they have only the ability to take away things, then I say they have no true power at all, and
at that point they become unneccessary and indeed a danger to the Explorers.

Samsbase: Absolutely. So, do you see the DRC in the future, you may know this, but we of course, don't, looking at
Gahreesen, that's a fantastic Age for people to research things on the Maintainers. Do you know if the DRC have been able
to go to any other Guild related Ages, or do they have access to, or is there something coming up soon that possibly you
know about that we might be able to go to, like a Guild of Writers Age, say, a room full of library books, or something
like that. Do you know if that's on the horizon.

Reteltee: I know that there are other Guild Ages, I know that some of them have been discovered. The Linking Books have
been discovered, I don't know whether the DRC have sent any investigation or have sent any teams to look at any of these
new Ages, or actually if they're newly discovered. I do know that there are other Guild Ages that have been uncovered.
The most [???] actually, are the Guild Pubs, which will be coming at some point, and they are each specifically tied to
each particular Guild, but more than that, I don't really know specifics.

Samsbase: Would you be able to elaborate? That's quite interesting, I'm not sure many of us have heard that before.
Guild...could you elaborate on these Guild Hub Ages, I mean, we've all heard about the Guild Hall, which we are assuming,
there's never been any plans for it drawn out in any detail. I mean, I'm not sure if you have any insight on that,
either, but these Guild Hub Ages, are they residential areas for people when they're at work, or are they offices, or
what? Do you what they entail?

Reteltee: [pause] Yes.

Samsbase: Yes, ok.

Reteltee: To speak to the Guild Hall for a moment, I will point out that we know from the diaries of Atrus that
have been recovered that he'd given specifically to The Stranger, we know that in the Book of D'ni, that Atrus actually
destroyed the floor of the Guild Hall to reach the Tomb of the Great King, which allowed them to Link to Tehrahnee.
So, the Guild Hall may not be in any sort of [???] stable at this point for Explorers to actually explore, or even the
area around it may be unstable because it was build on a hollow, actually this building was built on stilts, on giant
pillars, and Atrus used one of the pillars to destroy the floor. As far as the Guild Hall, I have no idea when, or even
if, it will ever be restored, per se, so I know that that's one thing that a lot of Explorers are asking about, "What
about the Guild Hall? What about the Guild Hall?" I think a lot of them have forgotten about Atrus's little demolition
crew at the beginning of the Book of D'ni. So, I hope that someday we can explore the Guild Hall and I'm sure that there
are lots of interesting bits of information that are scattered around there, but I do know that much of it was damaged
by that particular act of uncovering the Great King's Tomb. So, as far as the Guild Pubs, I've said pretty much all I
can on those.

Samsbase: But they are coming?

Reteltee: Yes, they are coming.

Samsbase: Is that an exclusive? Did Uru Radio just get an exclusive there? I've never heard about these Guild Hub Ages

Reteltee: I'm afraid not, I've mentioned them on a couple other occasions, but this is the first time I've made sort of
general announcement.

Samsbase: Yes, ok.

Reteltee: So you're the first to broadcast it.

Samsbase: So I'm the first to broadcast it. Fantastic. So, do you have any remote ETA on that? Are we talking years or
are we talking months?

Reteltee: Oh, dear, I hope we're not talking years, because if we are talking years, then Cate and Marie are both very
big meanie-heads, because, my goodness, to give me that information, and tell me to tell people, and then just not do
it for years. That would just be terrible. No, so I hope it's relatively soon, as far as I know, it could be as soon as
this next episode, it could be later. But I know it's definitely in the works, and it's coming down the pipe.

Samsbase: And these Guild Hubs, there'll be one for each Guild, that sort of thing? A guild of Maintainers Hub, a Guild
of Messengers Hub, that sort of thing?

Reteltee: To my knowledge they're going to be similar to the Watcher's Pub, simply Guild-themed, but I'm not sure what
the contents of that will entail.

Samsbase: That's fine, I know, I'm not going to make you more uncomfortable by saying things that you don't feel
comfortable with saying. I'm going to break to a music break now...

[music interlude]

Samsbase: Ok, guys, I'd like to welcome back Reteltee to the show, I hope you're enjoying listening, especially our live
listeners, as well as anyone listening to the archived version of this show. Down to the last section of the Reteltee
interview, and if you live listeneres want to ask a question before...want to ask a question yourself, I'm accepting
questions in the Uru Radio Bevin in Live, so jump in right now and you might be able to get one or two question in just
before we finish up tonight. So, moving on, I've got a question here: in the near future, people are wanting to know,
we've got this system going with you, here, being an advisor, and we kind of, if we have any questions, if we're concerned
about any issues, we can come to you and ask, say, "We're worried about this. We're worried about this happening. We're
worried about this happening." So, do you see, from an IC perspective, from an an In Cavern, in-character perspective,
can you be sure that the DRC will continue to provide the promised support to both the Guilds and to you in helping us
getting these Guilds set up, especially when they have a history of not keeping the support with the DRC Liasons, using
them and not following through like they said they would? Do you think that they're going to continue giving you the
support that they've been giving you so far?

Reteltee: They'd better. [Samsbase laughs] I'm not an easily deterred person, and once you ask me to do something, I'm
committed to it, and by golly, I'm going to see it through, whether you want to or not, I'm going to see it through to
the end. I do think they were serious about it. I don't think they would have sent out the KI mail this last episode,
and I don't think they would have made such a big deal out of it if they were just going to pull the rug out from under
us without making that things happen the way that they need to. So, I don't really feel concerned that the DRC is going
to suddenly hang up the phone and "Ok, we're done listening to you." Especially because they realize that there is a lot
of Explorer support for what the DRC is doing right now. There's a lot of people who are excited about the Guilds.
There's a lot of people who are happy that the DRC are finally showing a real sign that they are listening. There are a
lot of people who are very excited to see what happens next, and I think the DRC would be foolish to squander that
goodwill, especially as you said, since the have a rather shoddy track record from their past endeavours in this regard.
I think the DRC is smart, they will not pull the plug, and they'll keep listening.

Samsbase: That's great, because I think I'm not the only one tha really does hope...when the DRC have given us someone
like yourself to talk to, we can rely on yourself, I'm sure you're staying with us in the Cavern, and rely on yourself
to get our questions answered, because we're going to, I don't have any doubt that we're going to have tumultuous
times in the coming months setting these Guilds up, because there's always a power struggle with some people and some
people just want to get it sorted as quickly as possible, without anyth--without any consideration, you know, there's
different approaches to getting it set up, and who's you know, to say which is the best? As long as the DRC are giving
us their support and giving you their support to help us in getting this set up, I'm sure, the system will work, I'm sure
it will work.

Reteltee: That's my hope as well.

Samsbase: How are you seing Guilds being an In Cavern kind of situation supporting the Out of Cavern needs of the
player-base? Say, you've got the Writers, which is the big one, which is going to need a lot of Out of Cavern support,
because nobody is going to say that they are going to be nearly all In Cavern. I mean, I think that 90% of the Guild of
Writers' work is probably going to be doing Out of Cavern stuff on their home computers, sorting out Ages, building Ages,
that sort of thing, which just isn't feasible. I mean, lots of people talk about, I'm not sure if you're aware, of a
sort of Inform type system, or a Shakespeare programming language kind of system for building Ages. That's not realistic.
I mean, a system for building Ages where you just literally write in D'ni words, as fantastic as that would be, to
actually make that of any scope, to actually make that of, you know, not making just four different variations of Ages.
They might as well just bring out four Ages. They'd have to spend, you know, they'd have to spend years to get that
working right.

Reteltee: And they'd have to develope very expensive technology that currently, to my knowledge, isn't even something
that the big boys use, so

Samsbase: Well, yeah, nobody creates content using sentence-based languages. The most complicated thing people really
make is things like interactive fiction, so you've got basically MUD games, Multiple-User Mansions, you've got things like
the original Zork, Zork 1, Zork 2, Zork 3, that sort of game. To make that reach, well some people would say, "Oh, well,
fantastic, get an Inform sort of language, we can build Ages that way. Not have to go through lots of different things
in 3D editors." I'm sure, if they had a system that we could do that, they'd have made that and used it themselves
already. So, we're looking at the Guild...sorry, yeah?

Reteltee: That's all right, if I can just add one thing to that. I don't think that Cyan is looking to revive Infocom
and make those sorts of games. You know, as much fun as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text-based MUD adventure
game was, that's just not what Uru is about at this point. I'm not knocking that, because quite frankly I love Zork, and
I can't count the number of times that I've been eaten by a Grue. I think the truth of it is is that I think we're beyond
that now to where the visual element is an important part of Uru, and it is a very important part of the Explorer aspect,
and it's one of the reasons why people right now feel like Uru is just a big 3D chat client. Because if you don't have
that visual element combined with the storyline, it really is. It's just people standing around talking in fancy
enviroments with 3D avatars, woohoo. The Guilds are the chance for us to take direction, or take the direction of Uru in
a new way, and really have something where the user-created content is deeper than just, "Oh, hey, I saw Sam in his Bevin
tonight, you know, and here's what we talked about."

Samsbase: Exactly, exactly. For anyone listening, I said earlier I'm having Paradox talking about the Guild of Writers
on the 26st of August, so if you tune in not next Sunday, the Sunday after, at the same time, 2 to 4 Cavern Time, 9 to 11
GMT. I'll have some more in depth stuff with him. I'll have to read up a bit on Alcugs and the projects there, I think,
probably, he can get quite technical at times. But if you listen in on that show, I'm sure that there will be some
fantastic insight on how he envisions, oh, no, he's not the only Age builder out there, but he's been heading up the H'Uru
team for a while, and how he envisions Age building working. So, back to you, Reteltee, having Age building In Cavern.
Do you think that Guilds will be able to support, an in-game Guild system, an out of out-of-game, basically, production
system? Do you think, you have an Age production team, do you think we're going to be able to use an in-game system to
support that?

Reteltee: I hope so.

Samsbase: You hope so.

Reteltee: I'd love to give you more on that, but I don't know that that's really, I mean, I guess from one perspective
you could say that this is a one thousand step process, and we're at step two, and that's step 497, so it's not that we
shouldn't be thinking about it, it's just that it's definitely, it's so far down the line that I have a hard time
visualizing it just because I don't enough of the foundational material in front of it to see what it's going to be able
to build off of.

Samsbase: Ok, that's fine, but I'm assuming that's, you know, in the future, and you'll let us know if anything arises
on that fact, because I'm sure the Guild of Writers do want to know, especially how, is it worth them making their tools,
or are Cyan going to just make their own and chunk them out without any consideration. I mean, from an OOC perspective,
do you think H'Uru's, what they're doing, do you think that will be in vain, or do you think that will have a use in the

Reteltee: Well, I certainly don't think it will be in vain. I can't say, necessarily, that Cyan will be able to
integrate that toolset with what they currently use and how they currently develop from an Out of Cavern perspective, but
I still don't think that it would be in vain, because any toolset that allows someone to create something as imaginative
as an Age I think is valuable in an of itself, regardless of what the final produect is. Then again, I'm only speaking
as a person who only very lightly dabbles in level design, and that's about as deep into the programming field of games
that I go, but I do recognize the difficulties, and the challenges involved in developing a language, developing the
toolset, you know, working within the confines of a structure that allows you to develop something that is very in-depth,
very detailed, and very well articulated. It can definitely be a challenge, and it can definitely be a major time-sink,
especially if that's not your full-time job. So, you know, my caution to the Writers is to say, you know, "Don't invest
everything you have into just one particular toolset or skillset. You have to recognize that your work is not going to be
in vain, but at the same time, it may not become official, but that doesn't mean that it's not worth it."

Samsbase: Ok, then, on the note of the Guild of Writers, which is one I'm very interested in myself, and I'm sure very
many of the members of the Cavern are...I remember from the early days when Uru was still called Mudpie, people were
always like, "Will we be able to make our own Ages? Will we be able to make our own Ages?" Or, I know, I wasn't there,
but I know from online, everyone's always been talking about, there's always the forum topic, on every single Uru related
forum "What would your Age be?" If you made an Age, what would it be? How do you think CYan and the DRC are going to go
about releasing these Ages to the Explorers? I know you've probably had some talk with them about this, which you
probably won't be able to tell us, but is there anything you can tell us about how these user-created Ages, these
Explorer-created, these Explorer-written Ages are going to be integrated into Uru? Because people have been talking
about, you know, an in-game library where people can just submit, or an in-game Nexus or something like that, or will it
be integrated into a main storyline, withthe Guild of Writers submitting a number of Ages every month, which the DRC will
approve? Will it be more of a DRC approval system, or will it just be a free-for-all system, you know, just plonk your
Ages out there and let them loose.

Reteltee: Great question. You know, I really don't know what the DRC envisions for that, I don't know what Cyan has
cooking in the works in that regard, and, you know, to be honest, that question catches me a little bit flat-footed
because it's not something I've really dealt with too much with the DRC at this point, just because it hasn't been, I
mean, this is the first time really had it brought to my, not to my attention, but brought to me personally, and said,
"Here's something we're talking about and discussing, and whatnot." And while I am quite familiar with the idea of
building one's own Ages and "What would your Age be?" and whatnot, I can't say that I've really thought of it in terms
of the Cavern perspective because I've been focused more so on the In Cavern as opposed to the Out of Cavern experience.

Samsbase: Well, that's fantastic, I hope next time you talk to the DRC you put that to them, I'm sure the Guild of
Writers, you know, they want to know how their Ages, what their sort of audience is. I'm assuming, firstly, that people
are not going to be writing Ages only for their own use, especially as one Age will probably be a collaboration of
multiple Writers. I'm sure they're going to try to make them, from an out-of-character perspective, a fun experience,
and you know, like writing a novel, you want it to appeal. You know, knowing your audience, is it just going to be forced
down their throats as one of the number five Ages a month which is released by the DRC from the Guild of Writers, or
will you just be able to write whatever you want. I'm sure that would be a fantastic question that people would like
answered from the DRC.

Reteltee: And I will definitely take that question to them.

Samsbase: Thank you very much. We're coming to the close of our interview, today. Thanks for having you on the show,
today, Reteltee, it was fantastic having you in.

Reteltee: Well, thank you, actually, it's been fabulous being here, thank you for having me.

Samsbase: And of course, this interview is going to be available, probably from the Uru Radio website, which is, the URL keeps changing. It's in the Uru Radio Bevin in-game, I've got it on the Imager there. So,
that's, and I'll find some way of getting this interview put up. Is there anything you want to
close with today, Reteltee, before I play a song to play us out?

Reteltee: I just wish all the Explorers the fondest shorah and hope that we can continue building this to a great
experience for each and every one of us.

Samsbase: Thank you very much for having you on the show, Reteltee, I'm going to play you out...

[end of transcription][/spoiler]

((I am glad to be done with it...I was starting to see pictures in the words, and that's never a good thing :? )

KI # 03593691 (Samuel Churchill)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:43 pm 

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Thank You for the Transcript, a amazing piece of work; Your a better typist then me. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:21 pm 

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That's awesome, Hawkin. Thank you for a ton of good work.

Image Jishin's KI: 82165

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:33 pm 
Former MystOnline Moderator

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/bow & /cheer for Hawkin!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:50 pm 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:01 pm
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Location: West Seattle

the journey begins again . . .

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:56 pm 

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Posts: 210
Location: Riverside CA USA
Great interview and I really enjoyed listening to this. Quite informative and seems to be quite hopeful for the future. A couple of things that stood out to me that somewhat caught me by surprise. These are not critical to Reteltee’s position currently, nor that big of a deal … but something I felt worth noting if hopes that Reteltee can utilize and learn from.

Reteltee wrote:
No, I've actually been a part of Uru since about January, so I was part of the Prologue before everything went Live in February.

Though some initial confusion with terminology, I feel Reteltee was able to explain himself alright. I realize that many of us use certain names or terms to designate a certain time period within the UrU universe that Reteltee may not be completely familiar with yet. As many of you probably know, Prologue was the term used back when UrU came out of Beta and before Live actually launched. Of course we also know that … at that time … Live had never launched. The term Prologue was never used for the period of time when UrU Live switched from D’mala to GameTap and before the actual launch of MOUL.

2003 – Original Beta
2003/2004 - Prologue
2004 - Until UrU
2006 – Until UrU – D’mala
2006 – GameTap Open Beta
2007 – GameTap Myst Online: UrU Live

samsbase wrote:
Now, seeing as we've lost Watson, and we've lost Engberg, well, for whatever time, and well, now what, we've got Kodama, we've got Cate, and we've got Marie, and we've got...who are the voting members of the DRC? Kodama, Cate, Marie, and...yeah, that's it, at the moment, isn't it? Because...

Reteltee wrote:
Yeah, that's it at the moment.

Victor Laxman ;)


Last edited by CAGrayWolf on Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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