Structure of the Unofficial Guild Of Writers

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:29 pm

During the various discussions regarding the Unofficial Guild of Writers (see Sources in next post), two dimensions of structure have been introduced:

1. Position: different categories of membership and responsibility, based on either experience or election. Note: this was formerly labelled as "rank" but was changed to eliminate confusion.

2. Department: grouping of members according to speciality/skill (also referred to as "sub-guilds" or "committees")

Each age creation team would include people from various positions and sections.

Note: When creating an organization, there are automatically two "positions" at the start:

Non-members: can access the public areas of the UGoW site (referred to as "supporter" or "apprentice")
Members: can join an age creation team within the UGoW (referred to as "guild cadet") Note: people become members according to the guidelines established in the membership thread.

Previously, I had erroneously listed them as choices below. But because they are automatic, they are not subject to debate. What is debatable are further distinctions of the members: what positions they have and whether to categorize them according to skills.

Please select your answers by responding to this post, and I'll put your name next to the answers you selected. In this way, we'll reach a consensus about the structure of the UGoW.

Position Questions

1. In addition to members and non-members, which of the following positions should be included in the Unofficial Guild of Writers?
Note: To answer this question, either choose a, or choose one or more of the following: d, e, f, g.

a. No other positions - every member is equal, even on an age creation team.
{misterzen, Ushgarak, Jojon, Chacal} (16%, 4/25)

b. Removed (was "non-member") - see note above

c. Removed (was "member") - see note above

d. Experienced Member: has participated in the development of one or more ages within the UGoW (referred to as "guildsman/guildswoman/guildspeople" or "writer")
{The Noble Robot, Nateo, Hawkin, Ian Atrus, Erik, Dovahn, LaReh, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, metaigahn, Lontahv, Pryftan, mar, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (68%, 17/25)

e. Team Leader: organizes and leads an age creation team; becomes the main point of contact for the Maintainers when issues are discovered (referred to as "project leader" or "guild captain")
{Nateo, Hawkin, Erik, LaReh, TomahnaGuy, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, The Noble Robot, Ian Atrus, Dovahn, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, Emor D'ni Lap, mckendall, mar, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (80%, 20/25)

f. Administrator: liaison to other guilds; reviews ages created by members before passing them to the Maintainers; enforces guild rules; settles disputes; administrators to the UGoW site (referred to as "guild master" or "master writer" or "staff")
{The Noble Robot, Nateo, Hawkin, Ian Atrus, Erik, Dovahn, LaReh, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, mar, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (72%, 18/25)

g. Grand Master: single individual that oversees the whole guild
{Nateo, LaReh, Ozwell Spencer, TomahnaGuy, katreeny, metaigahn, Herohtar, kena} (32%, 8/25)

2. How does a member become an "Experienced Member"?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.d.

a. Automatically becomes this after helping to produce an age in the UGoW
{The Noble Robot, Nateo, Hawkin, Ian Atrus, Erik, Dovahn, LaReh, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, mar, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (64%, 16/25)

b. Voted in by the other Experienced Members
{TomahnaGuy} (4%, 1/25)

3. How does a member become a team leader?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.e.

a. Any member that wants to start an age development team.
{The Noble Robot, Nateo, Erik, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, metaigahn, Emor D'ni Lap, mckendall, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (52%, 13/25)

b. Each age development team must nominate and vote for this person.
{Hawkin, Dovahn, LaReh, Paradox, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, mar} (32%, 8/25)

4. How does a member become an Administrator?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.f.

a. Only Members and above can nominate and vote for these people.
{The Noble Robot, Nateo, Hawkin, Erik, Dovahn, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, Lontahv, metaigahn, mar, Herohtar, kena, Gondar} (60%, 15/25)

b. Only Experienced Members and above can nominate and vote for these people.
{Ian Atrus, LaReh, Pryftan} (12%, 3/25)

5. How many Administrators should exist at one time?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.f.

a. One

b. Three
{The Noble Robot, Erik, Herohtar, kena} (16%, 4/25)

c. Five
{Nateo, Hawkin, Ian Atrus, Dovahn, LaReh, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, mar, Gondar} (56%, 14/25)

6. How long does a member remain as an Administrator?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.f.

a. Until they quit.
{Ian Atrus, Lontahv} (8%, 2/25)

b. One year.
{Nateo, Hawkin, Erik, LaReh, Seanathon, Ozwell Spencer, mar, kena} (32%, 8/25)

c. Six months.
{The Noble Robot, Dovahn, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, metaigahn, Pryftan, Herohtar, Gondar} (32%, 8/25)

7. How does a member become a Grand Master?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.g.

a. Only Members and above can nominate and vote for this person.
{katreeny} (4%, 1/25)

b. Only Experienced Members and above can nominate and vote for this person.
{Nateo, Hawkin, Ozwell Spencer, TomahnaGuy, metaigahn, Herohtar, kena} (28%, 7/25)

c. Only Administrators can nominate and vote for this person.
{LaReh} (4%, 1/25)

8. How long does a member remain a Grand Master?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose 1.g.

a. Until they quit.

b. One year.
{Nateo, Hawkin, LaReh, Ozwell Spencer, TomahnaGuy, katreeny, Herohtar, kena} (32%, 8/25)

c. Six months.
{metaigahn} (4%, 1/25)

Department Questions

9. How should departments be organized?

a. There should not be any departments - only age creation teams.
{The Noble Robot, Erik, Dovahn, LaReh, Ozwell Spencer, Paradox, Ushgarak, Jojon, katreeny, metaigahn, Emor D'ni Lap, mckendall, Chacal, Herohtar} (56%, 14/25)

b. One department per skill: concept art, modelling, texturing, animation, scripting, sound, story
{Nateo, Hawkin, Ian Atrus, Seanathon, Paradox, TomahnaGuy, misterzen, Lontahv, metaigahn, Pryftan, mar, kena, Gondar} (52%, 13/25)

c. One department per phase in age creation development: brainstorming, design, model production, script production, testing
{Pryftan} (4%, 1/25)

*Note: The percentages on question 9 do not add up to 100% because Paradox, metaigahn and Pryftan voted for two answers.

Alphabetical list of Participants (25):
[spoiler]
Chacal
Dovahn
Emor D'ni Lap
Erik
Gondar
Hawkin
Herohtar
Ian Atrus
Jojon
katreeny
kena
LaReh
Lontahv
mar
mckendall
metaigahn
misterzen
Nateo
Ozwell Spencer
Paradox
Pryftan
Seanathon
The Noble Robot
TomahnaGuy
Ushgarak
[/spoiler]

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:29 pm

Position Sources

From the GoW Discussion thread:

[spoiler]
Dovahn:
It might be a good idea to have a few more specialized positions, such as "Project Leader" or something if a group of guildsmen/women want to work on an age, just so that there is someone to report to and keep track of everyone's work.

Tiran:
- We are trying to have as less levels as possible. So far we may have the following levels of membership

Supporter (open for everybody)
Guild Cadet
Guildsman/woman (full and voting membership)
maybe Guilds Captain (organizator and team leader for a project or age)
five Guild Masters (liaison between GoW, GoM and DRC/Cyan)

- We don't want to decide the rules yet but we have some ideas:

Everybody can become a supporter. Supporters have access to the public areas of the forum and other resources like wiki and tools.
A supporter can apply for membership. The supporter becomes a Guild Cadet and works together with other guild members on an age, tool or other age related stuff.
After a while the Guild Cadet promoted to Guildsman / Guildswoman. The time depends on the quality and amount of work e.g. show us a fully working age and you'll get instant membership.
The GoW is governed by five Guild Masters. The guild master are purely representative and act as liaison between the GoW, the other guilds and the DRC/Cyan.

- A member that has played a major part in developing an age, tool or assets for ages (textures, objects) will become a guilds(wo)man.

The Noble Robot:
There should be one barrier to "Guilds(hu)man" status, building a single age which is approved by the guild. That's it. It gets too complicated after that.

AtionSong:
- Look at how ancient D'ni guilds ran. Look at the organizational scheme:

Grand Master
Guild Master
Guild Captain
Guildsman
Cadet
Apprentice

- I think that organizing a system loosely based around this could work very well for the modern guild system. Basically, the guildsmen would be the ones actually working on the physical age creation. A guild captain would be someone who would organize one of the proposed sub-guilds (someone organizing the technical end, someone organizing the creative end, etc). The Guild Master would be the elected head of the guild, and do the general organization of members, etc. The Grand Master position I think is basically covered by Reteltee as Guild Advisor.
- Looking down, a Cadet would be somebody who participated someway in age creation, but is not actually a guild member. And an apprentice would be sombody who applied to be a guildsman, but wasn't quite...there...yet, to put it nicely.

Jairden:
- Grand Master: I think you have this one down pretty well, except maybe in the future have it be an elected position among all the guild masters (as it was in D'ni). Just perhaps....don't worry Reteltee, your job is safe for a very long time. *wink*
- Guild Master: As you said, plus what I mentioned above.
- Guild Captain: Coordinates multi-person projects, or oversees/advises a certain number of individual projects, and is around to give a boost, either in technical or creative aspects, if needed.
- Guildsman: A majority of guild members, doing specific tasks, etc.
- Cadet: Well, if we treat this as a typical guild, a Cadet is sort of like a "journeyman." Perhaps people working on their first project would hold this rank, and then advance to Guildsman after that. This would make Cadet a large part of the membership at times, but I think that is acceptable
- Apprentice: Someone interested in the Guild of Writers, and taking steps to learn. OOC-ly, could be learning to use the programs, etc, with some instruction from cadets and guildsmen (possibly even a guild captain that focuses on teaching apprentices). IC-ly, would be learning how to "write" and be a productive member of the Guild.

Auzho:
- Anyone can join the forum, get involved, and aspire to become a writer.
- In order to become a "Writer" you must contribute something tangible to an age project. Music, idea's, text, anything.
- Anyone in the guild that makes a major contribution (creates age building tools, Models a good quality age, creates a library of usable music) can be nominated and voted by the community as a whole to a position of "Master Writer". The Master writers will be the organisers of meetings, events, projects and administrators of forums etc..
- Once a year a vote is held by the whole community to choose a "Guild Master" from among the ranks of the Master writers. The main task of the Guild Master is to act as the representative of the Guild of writers, and as the final decider on any Guild maters that have end in a tied vote or argument. There could also possibly be a "Junior Guild Master", who's only function would be to fill in for the "Senior Guild Master" if he/she was unavailable.
[/spoiler]

From the 18 August Meeting Chatlog:

[spoiler]
Question III.1: Would having a ranking prove beneficial to the GoW? Why or why not?

Paradox: Not really
Luetwo: I don't think so
Dovahn: My answer: yes, because it can give people something to aspire to.
Marein.: No
Paradox: The structure should be dynamic based on the project
Dovahn: Not too large or anything, but hard work should be rewarded in a tangible way.
loyholleran: where is every one
Paradox: Using the example of Ahra Pahts here (one of the Age Builders Ages)
Marein.: Yes, everyone has their own tasks but not ranks in the big picture of the guild
Luetwo: but it could make those who have not had luck getting an age going get discouraged
Paradox: Aloys is "in charge" because he designed the Age and the master plan for it
Metaigahn: Well, aside from projects, does the GOW have need for it's own administration?
Paradox: however, Aloys is not anymore important than anyone else in any other projects
Metaigahn: too coordinate the projects and tools
Dovahn: Something small, possibly.
Luetwo: I think we need someone who can pass projects between people in the guild
Paradox: I'd like to see people take on leadership roles without the promise of a reward

Question III.6: Would an age creation team need a leader? And what are the responsibilities of a team leader?

Metaigahn: project admin
GermanShepherd: well... if it's someone's idea, sure... if it's a collective idea, then no...
Paradox: There needs to be a "Project organizer" to oversee each project
Dovahn: Yes. Someone needs to coordinate everyone else's work.
Marein.: If there would be a leader their job would be to collect all the work into one place, for one thing
Connor Mclyrr: depends on the project
Paradox: However, I don't like the idea of a "team leader" who is appointed
Dovahn: Why not?
Paradox: I'd rather see someone take the initiative by themselves
Paradox: or emerge based on experience and skill
Dovahn: But that doesn't prevent "powerhungry" people from just taking control.
Paradox: Dovahn > It should actually
SteveDenton: What if someone who'd expressed interest in the project was elected by other project members?

Question III.7: What would be the responsibilities of a governing council?

Marein.: To collect the finished Ages and make them publically available in a very user-friendly way, among other things
Paradox: There shouldn't be a "Guild Master" for the Guild of Writers
Dovahn: Why not?
Paradox: There could be a team that oversees the process
Marein.: No but there needs to be a little team or maybe even one person if that's possible that executes the final ctage of the ages
Dovahn: Those would be the "guild masters" I think.
Paradox: Dovahn > I'm looking at past events and what worked and didn't work
Robert The Rebuilder: Team - council : same kinda idea
Marein.: And keeps the public updated
Paradox: Dovahn > TNT was really open and they did some amazing work; AB was a bit more closed, and had some administration issues
Metaigahn: team that coordinated AGES and does admin for the GOW...
Dovahn: Okay.
Paradox: I'm also using info from the DRCLs and D'net to find out what should _never_ happen
Dovahn: Ah, the DRCL.
GermanShepherd: heh... plenty of examples of what not to do out there
Paradox: A team that oversees things and passes Ages along to the GoMa and to the public sounds like a good idea

Question III.8: Who would be elegible for being on the governing council?

Paradox: Ideally, one person from each "department"
Dovahn: By popular vote?
Paradox: (artists, builders, coders, musicians, storyline)
Paradox: I'm of the mind that voting will never keep people happy
Marein.: Yes
Marein.: Also
Marein.: That makes 5 ^^
Dovahn: Yeah, but what else. How should they be chosen?
Paradox: The important thing is to make sure that the "overseers" aren't locked into that position
Luetwo: those who haved worked on ages before
Paradox: and that they don't have power over the other members
Dovahn: A lot of people would have worked on ages.
Luetwo: but not everyone

Question III.9: How do we elect a governing council?

Dovahn: It has to be more definite than "whoever rises to power"
Paradox: uhm, I'd like to see it done by experience and commitment to the community
Dovahn: Yes, but how do you choose that?
Luetwo: well I would never want to be on governing council
Paradox: Luetwo > Neither would I
Luetwo: great worker bee, lousy leader
Dovahn: It's a great ideal, but how can you determine who has "commitment to the community"?
Marein.: Also, a huge load of people have that
Paradox: yeah
Connor Mclyrr: wlctionn mgiht help!
SteveDenton: Wouldn't it reveal itself naturally over time?
Dovahn: Yeah.
Dovahn: No! (sorry). Revealing naturaly leads to elitism.
Connor Mclyrr: election might help*
Paradox: I think that leaders will naturally emerge
Dovahn: Paradox, that can lead to elitism.
Paradox: true
[/spoiler]

From the 26 August Meeting Chatlog:

[spoiler]
Kato:
I, personally, think that there should be three levels: Supporter/Unregistered, this person wears the Guild shirt here and posts as a guest on the forum we have. Then there's: Registered/Guildsman. This person is registered at the forums (has agreed to our rules) and as such as access to all of our information that isn't designated for the second tier: Guild Masters/Staff. These people (probably 5 or some other odd number like 3) run the board and the Guild.

LaReh:
We need structure, the levela re good. But we ned to establish time linits on service in the top positions. Thats how GOG got into trouble. Structured turnover in the GM spots would help allay jealousies, etc. Perhaps a vote, after things are up and running and then yearly or so
[/spoiler]

Department Sources:

From the GoW Discussion thread:

[spoiler]
Tiran:
A guild cadet may join one more multiple groups to learn different techniques until he feels that he has mastered the art.

oldbushie:
I think having a ranking system would be great, and everyone would have a rank for each possible skill. Perhaps people could vote on the quality of your work, much like ratings for various freeware out there? This way there wouldn't be accusations of favoritism, and everyone's votes would count equally.

So, there could be a rank of 1-10, 10 being the highest, in areas like 3d modeling, scripting, programming, 2d art, music, sound effects, puzzle design, and perhaps other categories. This way people can form teams based on how much they need certain elements, and PM members they think would be suited for the task.

AtionSong:

1) A Sub-Guild for those involved in the creation, updating, and management of the programs used in age creation.
2) A Sub-Guild for those involved in the design of ages.
3) A Sub-Guild for those involved in the coding of ages.
a) Age "Invisioners" - Those who come up with the general idea of ages, including the general layout, environment (desert? garden?), and a general idea of the puzzles and tasks involved in "completing" the age.
b) Age "Revisors" - Revisors recieve an age concept from an invisioner, and sets upon improving.
c) Age "Contrivers" - Once an age has been Revised, a Designer takes the age and writes up a description:
d) Age "Designers" and Age "Depictors" - Once a Contriver has written up a description, a Designer and Depictor get to work.
e) Age "Reviewers" - Along with representatives from Cyan Worlds, this is the point where a created age is reviewed. Will it be enjoyable to play? Does it fit in with the storyline? Does it feel like an Uru age?
[More available here: http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewto ... 968#195968]

MattyQ:
I do think sub-guilds are a good and viable idea, though perhaps not necessarily something that should be implemented right away (I didn't gather that you were saying that, by the way), as I don't know if there are strict numbers as to how many people the initial GoW will be.

Montgomery:
Instead of a half-dozen sub-guilds, why not committees? That way people can move around from committee to committee as their time or interests allow.

Ushgarak:
What would seem more likely to me is small (or even large, if practical) teams of people containing a broad spectrum of skills working on a project as whole from concept to completion, asking for help when needed.

The Noble Robot:
Writers: Modelers/Designers/Etc. (those who do the brunt of the actual work)
Editors: Musicians/Texture artists/etc. (those who produce actual assets for the Writers)
Guild Ancillaries: Anyone who has helped out a writer in any way on a completed age.
[/spoiler]

From the 18 August Meeting Chatlog:

[spoiler]
Question III.4: What are the different skills that a GoW member could have?

Marein.: 3D modeling skills, programming skills
Paradox: Artist, Builder, Musician, Coder, Storyline
Luetwo: think we need a private way to communicate and leave messages for each other
Marein.: Music skills...
Dovahn: Ability to make 3D models.
SteveDenton: Concept artist?
Metaigahn: in general, everything above, but one can also be specialized in a team...
Marein.: Luetwo: That could be done with a private forum section
Dovahn: So artist could be anything from texturer to concept artist.
Paradox: Concept Artists to design Ages and make textures, Builders to build it in 3D, Muscicians to add sound, Coders to write Python, Stroyline to do... storyline
Paradox: And some post-process people to ensure that it all gets put together
Dovahn: I think there would need to be a specific "texture" job, because it is very broad.
Marein.: Of course some people could fullfill multiple roles
Paradox: As well, it might be nice to have a small team of testers who view the Age before the GoMa
[/spoiler]

From the 26 August Meeting Chatlog:

[spoiler]
Mar'ith: I would suggest (and apologies if this sounds really obvious) that once people register on the forum, they should introduce themselves and mention their skills (and skill level) so we can get an idea of who can do what and how best to organise writing an age. Also... if we find (for example) we don't have enough texture artists we could then do a recruitment drive.
[/spoiler]

The Noble Robot · **Joined:** Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:34 am **Posts:** 769

1. Which of the following ranks should be included in a ranking system?
b. Rank 0: non member
c. Rank 2: member;
e. Rank 3: organizes and leads an age creation team; (THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PERMANENT RANK, BUT A ROLE BASED ON EACH PROJECT; so i may be a "Rank 2" when taking about age "X", while also being a "Rank 3" on age "Y")
f. Rank 4: liaison to other guilds; reviews ages created by members before passing them to the Maintainers; enforces guild rules; settles disputes; administrators to the UGoW site (referred to as "guild master" or "master writer" or "staff")

2. How does a member achieve rank 2?
a. Automatically become this rank after helping to produce an age

3. How does a member achieve rank 3?
a. Any member that wants to start an age development team.
(UNDER THIS SYSTEM, A PERSON CAN BE A "RANK 3" FOR AN AGE, BUT NOT BECOME A MEMBER ["RANK 2"] UNTIL THE AGE IS COMPLETE)

4. How does a member achieve rank 4?
a. Only rank 1 or higher can nominate and vote for these people.

5. How many people of rank 4 should exist at one time?
b. Three

6. How long does a member stay at rank 4?
c. Six months. (OR LESS)

Department Questions

9. How should departments be organized?
a. There should not be any departments - only age creation teams.

Nateo · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:38 pm **Posts:** 11

1. This set-up looks good, though I don't know if Rank 0 need be explicitly described as a "supporter" so much as just a person, for example, browsing the UGoW website.

Other than that 1-5 are great.

2. How does a member achieve rank 2?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 2.

a. Automatically become this rank after helping to produce an age, perhaps after their contributions are deemed significant enough to warrant promotion (i.e. they didn't just model a chair that ended up being used).

3. How does a member achieve rank 3?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 3.

a. Any member that wants to start an age development team. Though I would suggest that they already be of Rank 2 before being allowed to lead age creation, or otherwise able to demonstrate competence.

4. How does a member achieve rank 4?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 4.

a. Only rank 1 or higher can nominate and vote for these people.

5. How many people of rank 4 should exist at one time?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 4.

c. Five

6. How long does a member stay at rank 4?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 4.

b. One year.

7. How does a member achieve rank 5?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 5.

b. Only rank 2 and above can nominate and vote for this person.

8. How long does a member stay at rank 5?
NOTE: skip this question if you did not choose to include rank 5.

b. One year.

9. How should departments be organized?

b. One department per skill: concept art, modelling, texturing, animation, scripting, sound, story

Hawkin · **Joined:** Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 am **Posts:** 123

I would provide more explanation to my votes, but I'm in a bit of a rush, so I may do so at a later time. See my post in the membership requirements topic for (a bit) more on my time constraints.

1. b, c, d, e, f (the responsibilities and powers of "f" to be determined later, I take it)

2. a

3. b

4. a

5. c

6. b

7. b

8. b

9. b (so if an Age creation team needs, say, a texture person, they go to that department and say, "Hey, we need a texture person," and then they go from there)

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:29 am

Added votes from The Noble Robot, Nateo and Hawkin.

The Noble Robot: I need a clarification from you regarding your votes. You did not choose 1.d (Rank 2), and yet you referenced Rank 2 members in your explanations and had also answered question 2.

So, how do you wish to resolve this conflict? Here are your choices:

A. Add Rank 2; or

B. Change your "Rank 2" references to "Rank 1" and remove your answer for question 2

Seanathon · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:31 am

1. (b,c,f) A Rank2 seems unnecessary and "extra." A member's a member and experience can be seen or documented without a rank attached to it. However, projects need at least one project leader to keep things organized and people motivated. But I don't see this as a separate rank but rather as a role any member who feels qualified may attempt to fill. Also, there's no need for a single Grand Master when several Guild Masters will do as well.

2. N/A

3. (a) Any member who feels up to it may lead a team in creating an Age. If the team decides the leader isn't doing his/her job, they can choose to work under a new leader or for one of them to become the new project leader.

4. (a) Since I vote against a Rank2, this is my obvious answer.

5. (c) In cases of one or more Guild Masters being unavailable, the more that are available the merrier. Five seems like a good number (and of course the significance wasn't lost to the D'ni).

6. (b or c) My opinion changes based on two facts: 1) six months is a long time in the scope of MOUL, but maybe not too long in the scope of work/projects and 2) I'm not sure if there's a possiblity of a Guild Master serving another consecutive six month term or not. If not, one year would be my vote.

7. N/A

8. N/A

9. (b) As far as official structure goes, I support having departments based on general skillsets or jobs. When an Age building team is formed, members can be drafted from each department to form a well balanced team hopefully with enough organization and a decent project leader to produce the pride of the guild: shiny new Ages.

More very good and essential questions. I get more and more excited about the GoW each day.

quahog42 · **Joined:** Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:05 am **Posts:** 152

How complex a guild structure? I dunno.

Why not get a bunch of people, come up with some simple age-building assignments, and test different structures that way? It's worth a shot.

The Noble Robot · **Joined:** Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:34 am **Posts:** 769

Robert The Rebuilder wrote:

Added votes from The Noble Robot, Nateo and Hawkin.

The Noble Robot: I need a clarification from you regarding your votes. You did not choose 1.d (Rank 2), and yet you referenced Rank 2 members in your explanations and had also answered question 2.

So, how do you wish to resolve this conflict? Here are your choices:

A. Add Rank 2; or

B. Change your "Rank 2" references to "Rank 1" and remove your answer for question 2

Yeah, my bad. I meant "Rank 2" each time, and I edited my post to reflect it.

My point with it was that there should only be 3 kinds of members:

1. Supporters/non-Writers (your Rank 0)
2. Standard members/writers (Your Ranks 1 and 2)
3. Elected Leaders (Your Rank 4)

What you describe as "Rank 3" should not exist as a permanent rank, but a temporary title, only relating to an age. The "Team Leader" for an age should still be described as "Rank 2" or simply, guild member.

Ian Atrus · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:54 am

I'm assuming here that 'helping to produce Age' does NOT mean that the Age has to be published; since an Age is a very choral project and depends heavily on the project leader(s), I wouldn't want people remaining cadets for years because they contributed work for an Age that never saw the light of the day (because the project leader left the game, or the design was scrapped, or any other impediment). I'm keeping Cadet as a rank to be left *quickly* by whoever does some significant work.

1. b, c, d, f - project leader is a job position, not a rank, and I see no need for a grand master

2. a - as above, you become a member as soon as you contribute something of significance to a project

4. b - no vote for the slackers like me

5. 5, or any odd number (so there are no ties in voting; if there is a grand master, any even number for the same motivation)

6. a, or if there is a recall vote; remembering the Liaisons, terms of one year or six months would result in more voting and campaigning than actual work done by the elected people

9. b - though I don't think a member should be required to subscribe to one of them; I see them more as groups of people creating libraries of sounds, textures, basic models, etc. that can be used freely by projects of the guild members

Erik · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:15 am

1. c d e f
2. a
3. a
4. a
5. b
6. b
7. -
8. -
9. a

Dovahn · **Joined:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:12 pm **Posts:** 107

1. b) c) d) e) f)

As some have said, the "project leader" isn't necessarily a rank, just a role that someone takes on within an age creation group (just as someone is a "programmer" and another is a "texture artist". It might be (based on community feelings and not actual value) be worth a bit more than the rest. (Whether this is good or not, I don't know)

(and a supporter would not be an "official" member of the guild)

2. a)

3. b)

I'm not sure about this one, but I think that you can't just "step into power", and that an age creation team can form (with a programmer, a modeler, an artist, etc.) and then within the group, they then decide who is going to oversee it. So (and as a revision of my above answer) the leader should be an extra responsibility taken on by someone.

4. a)

5. c)

6. c)

Six months is a long time.

7. N/A

8. N/A

9. a)

So when you sign up, you choose your "specialty" (just a demarcation on your profile) and you can then join a creation teem that is seeking someone of your specialty. I am imagining a website that has the "job openings" listed, and (if you are logged in) you click on one to sign up.

LaReh · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:18 pm

1.c,d,e,f,g.
2.a
3.b
4.b
5.c
6.b
7.c
8.b
9.a

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:37 pm

Added answers from Seanathon, Ian Atrus, Erik, Dovahn, and LaReh.

I also changed question 1.e to have two "sub-answers", to reflect the sentiment that a project lead is just a position and not a rank. Also, I modified question 3 so that it applies to the project lead whether or not you consider it a rank.

quahog42 wrote:

Why not get a bunch of people, come up with some simple age-building assignments, and test different structures that way? It's worth a shot.

That's the plan, quahog! :-)

That's the main purpose of the Unofficial Guild of Writers - to test this stuff out. Once we get a significant number of people (30? 40? 50?) to agree on the structure, membership, home location and other aspects, we'll launch the UGoW. So, what's your answers for the questions above?

Ozwell Spencer · **Joined:** Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:27 pm **Posts:** 14

1. B, C, D, E should be a posistion, F, and G.
2. A
3. A
4. A
5. C
6. B
7. B
8. B unless relected.
9. A as the choice of B would go against single person groups.

Structure of the Unofficial Guild Of Writers

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