[UGoW] Membership Debate, 15 September 2007

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:15 am

Currently in the Unofficial Guild of Writers Membership discussion there are a couple issues which have divided the community. So, I'd like to take this discussion into the cavern for a live debate.

Please join me on Saturday 15 September 2007 at 8 pm Mountain Time (GMT - 6) in the Writer's Pub. Click here for a time converter.

Here's the format for the debate:

For each topic, I need someone to represent each side.
Each side has 2 minutes to present their case without interruption.
Next, I will pose a question to each representative, and each will have 2 minutes to respond.
For a period of 10 minutes, the community will be invited to ask either side a question regarding the topic of discussion.
We move on to the next topic.

And below are the topics of discussion, along with the people who have expressed an opinion on that topic; it is the hope that at least one of these people will be able to attend the debate.

Topic 1: Who is eligible for membership in the UGoW?

a. Anyone that agrees to uphold the mission statement and follow the code of conduct
{katreeny, Ushgarak, metaigahn, LaReh, Dovahn, Eleri, isomorphic, Nateo, Seanathon, Hawkin, Ozwell Spencer, Jojon, chucker, ShadowDude, Owehn, Kolian, TomahnaGuy, Stellaflora, Shorahmin, Eltheras, J'anim Paedet, Montgomery, Narym, Kato}

b. (a) + demonstrating one of any skills needed to contribute to building an age
{Ian Atrus, Paradox, Herohtar, Tweek, Kierra, RenStrike, Tiran, Jennifer_P, Marein}

c. (a) + demonstrating only a subset of skills needed to contribute to building an age (subset = those that result in actual data found in the age files)
{The Noble Robot, Erik}

Topic 2: What should a member of the UGoW be called by the general community?

a. Writer
{katreeny, Ushgarak, metaigahn, Paradox, LaReh, Ian Atrus, Dovahn, Eleri, Erik, isomorphic, Nateo, Seanathon, Hawkin, Ozwell Spencer, Jojon, chucker, ShadowDude, Kolian, TomahnaGuy, Stellaflora, Shorahmin, Kierra, RenStrike, Eltheras, AtionSong, Tayr, Narym, Jennifer_P, Rusty_Russell, Marein}

b. Depends on the skills
{The Noble Robot, Herohtar}

Topic 3: Who should be able to produce ages for the general community?

a. Anyone (members and non-members)
{The Noble Robot, Ian Atrus, katreeny, Ushgarak, metaigahn, Paradox, LaReh, Dovahn, Eleri, Herohtar, isomorphic, Tweek, Nateo, Hawkin, Ozwell Spencer, Jojon, chucker, ShadowDude, Owehn, Kolian, TomahnaGuy, Stellaflora, Shorahmin, Eltheras, belford}

b. Only UGoW members
{Erik, Seanathon, Kierra, Kato, GMRguru}

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Note: if this goes well, we'll have a similar debate about structure at a later date. However, we will not cover structure-related topics (or other topics for that matter) at this debate.

Lehm · **Joined:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:56 am **Posts:** 84

This is an easy topic to answer.

1. Everyone.

2. Explorers. Writers are no different then anyone else. No elistest attitudes.

3. Anyone....now I will caveat this one and say that only ones that have been decently designed be officially recognized. Can't have everyone who makes an empty box flooding the system.

Mystical Explorer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:38 am

All these GoW threads are giving me a headache. Why don't we just find a forum and get on with it? Too much deliberating means nothing gets done in many instances.

Lehm · **Joined:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:56 am **Posts:** 84

I absolutely agree. Only reason I responded to this one was that the topic concerned me. Robert seems to be encouraging elitism, and I just won't stand for that. Remember people are paying to play this game, they have the right to participate...end of story.

Stellaflora · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:17 am

I don't see where the elitism is that ROBERT is encoraging? The orginal topic had more options, but only a few got any votes.

Besides, if you don't want GoW members to be called Writers IC then to be fair you'd have to say the same for GoG being called Greeters, or GoMe being called Messengers etc.

Kolian · **Joined:** Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:04 am **Posts:** 441

Frankly, none of those topics seems contested enough to be worth debating in a formal setting.

Ian Atrus · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:16 am

This thread is for Robert's proposed live event; for the actual polling and discussion on this forum please refer to the original thread.

(And while I'm all for openness, there is no constitutional right to be accepted into a Guild; even if they rarely do so, I believe the GoG council still keeps the right to reject applications and kick out members)

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:02 pm

It is true that in each of the topics presented at this debate, there is a clear majority. So, the purpose of this debate is to give each side its last chance at presenting its case before we close all discussion on membership - and move on with forming the Unofficial Guild of Writers.

If this debate goes well, then we'll hold another one on the most contentious issue to date: the guild's structure.

Lehm · **Joined:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:56 am **Posts:** 84

Apologies to Robert my last post didn't quite come off as intended. I just meant that brining up exclusivity of membership can be a slippery slope. The future guild must be careful...that is all.

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:13 pm

No problem, Lehm! And I agree that membership is a very touchy subject, given the variety of opinions present.

If you like, you can add your answers to the Membership questions on the thread below:

http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12272

Barbarra · **Joined:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 pm **Posts:** 27

Anyone who wants to should be able to join. Almost anyone has skills that can be useful in the creation of ages.

All this discussion is premature, anyway, since I assume that membership, titles, functions, and so on will depend on constraints and conditions that will be decided by Cyan.

At any rate, we don't need a bunch of forums and a bunch of rules. People who want to talk to each other should just talk to each other.

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:36 am

Barbarra: the hope is that once Cyan is ready to support an official Guild of Writers, they can use what we've done in the Unofficial GoW. So, the UGoW is for those of us who want to do something in the meantime - but with Uru: Complete Chronicles ages instead of MO:UL ages.

So, that's why it's important to have the UGoW be the way you want it now - in case Cyan adopts it as official later on.

I agree that we do need to talk to each other - that's why I'm holding the debate tomorrow: to talk about our ideas "face to face". But we also need the forums for all those many, many hours that we aren't in cavern - so that we can still communicate.

Robert The Rebuilder · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:03 pm

Chat log is available here.

Jennifer_P · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:11 am

I feel like we're drafting the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something!

Anyway...

Quote:

So, the UGoW is for those of us who want to do something in the meantime - but with Uru: Complete Chronicles ages instead of MO:UL ages.

Oh..? I was thinking that the UGoW was just the GoW for Uru Live Ages, but awaiting tools and the official Cyan okay. Because I mean, if we're looking to start Age creation on Uru Live, we could certainly begin now without any waiting!

Storyline, puzzle design, 2D in game artwork, journals, concept art, sound effects--you don't need Age creation tools to make those!

And then we'd have stuff ready for when we did get the tools, instead of having to wait until we'd developed it. [/quote]

Tweek · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am **Posts:** 2633

Robert The Rebuilder wrote:

Barbarra: the hope is that once Cyan is ready to support an official Guild of Writers, they can use what we've done in the Unofficial GoW. So, the UGoW is for those of us who want to do something in the meantime - but with Uru: Complete Chronicles ages instead of MO:UL ages.

Having a Guild of Writers working with Uru CC only kind flies in the face of why the Guild of Writers was being added, which is to provide new Ages to Uru Live. If people want to model for Uru CC or use it as a practice area then fair enough but research and discussion about adding to Live and developing guides/tools etc should be a focus.

But then this is something the Guild as a whole should decide upon and not a single person.

[UGoW] Membership Debate, 15 September 2007

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