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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:02 am 
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So, while we debate who wants to be where or what group should be where- just what is it that the DRC/Cyan will be bringing to the table to make any of this worth our while? While I don't mind being stuck with only half the information, stated I am in favor of gathering the guilds, and have an idea why they are doing it this way- what is this organizational exercise really about? Just finding those with similar interests, get to know each other better or to create a current explorer story line that we are all participants in... and has it increased the amount of explorers visiting the cavern between episodes? Will it in the future? Is Dr. Watson's claim that we will need new non-D'ni ages to help solve the current problems enough to bring us together? And have we included all of the explorers that can help us find those solutions? Would we listen more if someone else told us the same thing? Yeesha? Atrus? Who? Should we listen to anyone?

Will it just be tools for the writers to make ages that work in the Uru framework? Or will they just let us develop our own story lines while others are enlisted to build our visions. Will the GOMe get some new KI function or imagers to help them share news? User created notebooks, in game maps- what? Will we need more tools than what we have imagined or less? Have we been looking at all of this with blinders only toward what we can think up or will there be more?

What fabulous secrets are they holding that will make all of this work and still have an impact on our episodes... ? Or are their no secrets- we figured it all out even without all the pieces to the puzzle...

I find it hard to imagine that they would not like the maximum amount of explorers to participate in whatever versions of guilds we end up with. To what benefit would it be to not include everyone who wants to participate and find a home within a guild for all that want to contribute? The only result of that would be for that explorer to feel unimportant and left out and go back to what they were doing or home until the next episode happens if they are still interested. So, why wouldn't we broaden our descriptions to allow as many explores in as possible? And what will the powers that be do- if we do not it on our own? Will Dr. Watson just up and leave again? Will we be satified after all of this to settle for just the status quo from the DRC? What will happen if we are not satisfied?

Even though the cavern is a great place to be- we all know we need to keep the explorers we have and bring in new explorers. Just what is it that they have in mind? While some are getting tired and figuring that what we were doing was just fine or happily going to find different places to gather- who needed all of this? What will be the catalyst that causes us to realize every explorer will need to work together and support from within the guilds and without- despite our different interests and goals. Just giving us guild pubs- cannot. And asking us to support something that does not even half exist- won't be enough.

Anyone else wondering the same things?

Are we seeing the whole picture- and are we dreaming big enough?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:05 am 
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We are all well aware of all these looming curiosities, and you stated them very well, indeed. Do these concerns reach the right eyes, with the right colors? We can only dream....and make the most of what we have.

:)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:07 am 
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I'm not worried about what Cyan will bring to the Guilds.

It's what We will bring to the Guilds while waiting for Cyan that will make them sink or swim.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:17 am 
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From an economic perspective, there's a point after which the more resources they dump into the Guilds, the less useful the Guilds become. What they're going to need to do is try to hit that point in terms of how many resources they delegate to Guild stuff.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:22 am 
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MustardJeep wrote:
I'm not worried about what Cyan will bring to the Guilds.

It's what We will bring to the Guilds while waiting for Cyan that will make them sink or swim.


Are we bringing enough? Can I do more? Going in the right direction? Or just beginning to fade away and lose interest? Do we have enough to work with now? I'm not really worried about Cyan either, but does it come into play while we try and figure out how to make this work for as many as possible? Will the new toys cause us to rethink everything that has been accomplished and reorganize? Will it be easier then or harder?

I'm all for the broader and more inclusive the better- I have made my position pretty obvious- but I am beginning to feel a little out numbered- or sitting among a very silent, invisible group. So, if the We is the most important where are We going to make the changes in our thinking? What can We do to make sure it is the best We can make it? Which one of us, or what group(s) will be Our catalyst to pull this together? How many voices will it take? And where are they hiding? Or are we working with all the explorers that want to be included? I don't think so...

How many times will we have to assure explorers they can contribute? Or tell anyone that no one has excluded anyone even if they heard otherwise- the pub doors have not been locked and we are all still invited in as far as I know. Should I wander through the cavern yelling "Hey guys the party is over here! We'd love to hear your voice too." Or is this it- the grand vision of a new future? Is it the best we can do?

We are letting a number of very hard working people try to get this started, (and I greatly admire their efforts), but they too feel the pressure of trying to do this fairly and gathering the best way they know how. Am I just not seeing the large, all inclusive groups that are willing to all call a pub their home? And are any of my questions even worth thinking about?

In the end - it really doesn't matter what I think- it should be a We think. I am working as hard as I can to make sure the pub doors aren't locking anyone out the only way I know how. But I'm asking these questions because I don't think we are even close. We are not dreaming big enough....

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:04 am 
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@Jenine

Some people have been aghast at this, but it is much simpler to not worry about including everyone.

We have two choices right now, Waiting for Cyans next move, or Putting ourselves out there with all the risks that includes.

Speaking as a member of the Maintainers Guild Supporters I know the Guild Groups shaping up right now are not reaching everyone that is interested. I have gotten a KI mail or two from non-english speaking Explorers interested in participating. I would love to see this include everyone right from the start, with a lot of work we might be able to include many of them, but the burden is on the Explorers to participate. The Supporter Groups for the Guilds are open to everyone, and the moment you make yourself known you'll have a harder time Not Participating.

The [GoMa] - Supporters have a project that is going to start at the finale, I've put notices up here at MO:UL and over at the UO Forums. That is probably going to be it as far as advertising goes until the project officially starts.

I've mentioned that my project is open to everyone repeatedly, but like you said it's surprising people. Still everyone is happy when they really "know" this nice shiny new supporter group backed project is going to happen, and as advertised too.

I've made the choice to push ahead with the projects that I know I can "do" now. I am putting myself out there taking the risks that Cyan/The DRC will with one word wipe it all away.

But the risk does not matter to me; I am having fun. What really blows me away is that while things are starting small other people are already having fun with my ideas. :shock: :D

Eventually participating will only be as hard as working up the courage to say you want in that first time, but until then you have to meet everyone half way.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:21 am 
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@ Mustard Jeep- love your attitude! :wink:

So, I'll go find something fun to do.... and let it work it's self out.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:06 pm 
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I love MustardJeep's attitude too! Right now is the time for the small still voices to make themselves heard.....Get out there and do what you can in your own small way...Make a difference...as Lynnutte so aptly said (this sooooo applies to ALL the people interested in the guilds) "See a need, fill a need." Figure out what is lacking and see what you can do to help fill that need with what resources we have right now... Cyan/DRC will let us know in their own time what they have for us....in the meantime, we need to do what we can. All the guilds have something to contribute to the here and now. We are all looking to the future, let's pave the way....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Fish-sticks

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:57 pm 
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with Tater Tots????

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:00 am 
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Participate. It doesn't really matter where or how so long as you enjoy it. There's so much to do and we have this chance to guide this protean tale to the limits of our imagination.

So, do as Jenine says: dream bigger, and more often.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:36 pm 
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Aww, man- they already gave you the clues! I wasn't paying attention and it was right in front of my nose...

Dr. Watson said many, many things in his speech. Aside from the we need to work together and all that, he said we need new ages to solve the bahro problem. That Yeesha has not been able to find an answer to the problem. He was very specific!

So - what about this? The creative writers will need to develop story lines that would focus on how to solve the bahro issues. These stories would be presented to the DRC or whoever by the guilds as possible solutions. Some of the stories would have possibilities and they would get approved for the next step. Others would get sent back to the drawing board to refine the stories further and be submitted again or new ideas to replace them. The age builders would be able to start developing the new ages that were approved and the process would beginning with the maintainers coming in to check and the cartographers mapping and the messengers presenting the back story and explorer episodes when it became time...

If I was Cyan- this is the way I would do it. Thoughtfully and methodically and with a given structure. They would make you really think through a story before it would get approved for production. They hold the direction and can mold the tools to the stories. Make the guilds work within the game and pull everyone together. Solved all of my many questions at one time! Keeps the main frame of the work in the cavern. Teamwork, Teamwork, Teamwork!

Still think you all are dreaming too small! and boy sometimes I can overlook the things right in front of my nose... sorry! Took me two weeks but I got to it.... If you knew - why didn't you tell me before?

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