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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:04 am 
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Axel, I agree with everything you said and multi-player solutions SHOULD be optional.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:14 am 
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The stranger wrote:
Can't anyone get along with the game and accept it as it is?! This is what I got to say: Cyan World gave us the best they could.And I think it was more than I hoped.We got both new and old style content.

Nothing personal, Stranger, but I was afraid of a post like this. It's whitewashing all the problems we just agreed were very important to discuss.

The stranger wrote:
AND,I think the pods journey was GRAET.I had great time figuring out the whole map thing.I felt like I'm actually doing something.So,for me,yes,the pods were one of the better things we got this year.

The pods were a big time sinkhole to keep people occupied. There's no real reason for the portals or the rewards or why to get them, except that "they're there." Buttons that make animal calls, power switches. Not to mention the fact that we weren't able to solve the pods upon their release because they didn't all appear at the same time and without the map the puzzle is unsolvable.

The stranger wrote:
AND,jalak dador was a fun age too.Many people complained there is no puzzle in there.So? the spyroom has no puzzle.Teledahn's city office has no puzzle.The whole idea behind this age was very nice.

Jalak was terrible, I'll qualify this statement which the words "for Myst" it might have been fine as some desktop game. Yes, I'll cite "no puzzle" as a #1 reason, but you can't compare an age centered around an episode to a closet of a spyroom or city office which never had puzzles. #2 This would be the first time that a full age was introduced for no reason other than that dreaded word "sandbox". Meaning no solution, no rewards, no context. Jalak is directly responsible for getting lots of people one piece of straw closer to breaking that Bahro's back.

The stranger wrote:
AND,minkata was amazing.Cyan Worlds really put some efforts and it came out to be a great age,with a great puzzle,a great age and a great music.

I'll give you Minkata. It was a fine level, the best thing they're done all year. The only quick problems I had is it was advertised as bigger that any of the other ages. Truth? yes. Trickery? a bit. There's only one fundimental puzzle in Minkata. Follow the coordinates to the cave; change to night; follow the correct constellation. Rinse and repeat until you have a portal to take you to another silent Bahro cave to get your raspberry-filled full stone donut.

The stranger wrote:
AND,the story was amazing too! I really wanted to be in-game when the bahros were in the cavern (though I saw one in the little time I was playing),or when weely died (I mean,I know you all sad for the death,but I still think it was a great move in the story) or when...when...there were many other good things,anyway.

I also think they've failed at storytelling at so many levels, it's unfair to name them all, but let's give it a go. No voices, chat logs only. If you're lucky enough to be online during and event, don't plan on moving or trying to take a picture or the lag will throw you clear from the server and you won't be getting back on until it's all over. The story mainly consists of them attempting to make us care about NPC most of us didn't know well. I don't ever feel in danger in a game where I can't be killed, harmed or set back in any way. Then there's the exciting political manuverings of the DRC it makes me pine for C-Span. And finally a war that we know is not going to scratch a brick of the ruins or affect us at all since the Bahro took the war out of town so everything can go back to looking before anything began.


I know people love to defend the game. I love the game and teared up when I signed into Bevin for the first time since the shutdown. It all goes back to Axel's original inspiring post which nice people a bit, but then centers on hope. We hoped many years ago that URU would work, but it was soon shutdown despite Rand fighting for it for a while. We saw rumors about this revival and hoped it would happen. Shocked but happy we got GameTap accounts and signed on to play. We were (and so still are toooo) forgiving of glitches or anything, we were just so happy to have the game back and with funding which meant hope. We were fed lines about how our adventures would merge and this "living breathing world" would be affected by us personally. Another note of hope floated through our heads "this is going to be amazing when all the new features are implemented". But they never were, we made a trial of hope that brought us this far, but it's not going to work like that again.

I think Cyan/GameTap knew early on what they could and couldn't do. It wasn't meant with malice, but I don't think they adjusted our expectations in relation to their limitations. We've slowly dropped our expectations so much that now forming these guilds and doing a lot of the work ourselves is starting to sound preferable. It's what makes us defend the bad choices and lack of proper planning to start this MMO off on the right foot. This silence from both companies either means they've already decided to pull the plug on URU or they are having some intense contract debates. I read that Cyan is hiring more staff for non-Myst related programming and with GameTap holding the financial advantage the outcome may just be that GameTap wants to invest their money other programs with a better chance of profit.

In the end, I'm still trying to mantain that hope that I had when I first heard that URU was back online. I hope that what we have now can be made into something that more closely resembles Rand's original vision for the game. Having reached the new year with no contract, I believe that the game is essentially over for now. If things do get worked out somehow, then we're probably looking to April/May before they schedule another episode. And if the Hollywood writer's strike continues, it is said that writing for videogames could be affected. I don't know if that affects the involved parties.
All that aside, I still hope that things work out and we can see a lake so bright we need to find a well hidden pair of sunglasses. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:22 am 
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Sorry you are disappointed. I have to say though that we have not received less than promised. We were promised exactly what we got this first season.
It really wasn't enough, but I didn't expect it to be.
As for season 2, if you listen to the latest podcast (December) you will see that Cyan and GameTap are still in negotiations. I really hope that there is a season 2. I've grown a bit board with the other games on gametap and really don't know that I will renew if there is no Uru online for 2008.

Perhaps what they need to do is create another large age like the city and open it up with puzzles a bit each month and also have a few new ages well during the year. I can only hope.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:24 am 
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Thanks Chuckles, With your help I just found it. :oops:

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[spoiler]I thought it was Nexus only.[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:15 am 
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greypiffle wrote:
I have to say though that we have not received less than promised. We were promised exactly what we got this first season.
It really wasn't enough, but I didn't expect it to be.


Agree Grey and I was there to hear it live right from the horse's mouth, We were told off the bat not to expect too much, in fact very little in the beginning.
All in all, I have enjoyed the season for I did not expect too much, my only hope was the game would survive and will continue to do so. One thing we must remember though, it is up to we the fans to make URU a success. I am sure by us being unhappy and overly critical does not inspire Cyan and GameTap, nor does it make fellow players comfortable.
I am very sorry to hear there are those of us that are that unhappy with the game as to leave it, I don't quite understand why, for as is, there is has so much to offer. I played UU for two years, not one single addition was made, we created our own fun and there was a tremendous unhappy roar when it closed. Anyway, I am paid up for another year, there are over a thousand games to choose from and I just hope my very favourite one does better in the months to come.
Grey, always enjoy your input :) Cheers, Mur.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:18 am 
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Quote:
I have to say though that we have not received less than promised. We were promised exactly what we got this first season.


Well... sort of. The fact that there *was* a "season one" is itself a shortfall.

When Cyan went over to episodes, in May, there was a lot of debate about it. Their position was "We're producing at the same rate as before, but we'll release it all during one week per month." That went over okay.

That turned out to mean "five days per five weeks," but that wasn't too much of a jolt.

Then it turned out to mean "five days per five weeks through October (plus a two-week delay), and then we stop releasing." That's a cutback. It's not rearranging the content, it's a freeze. No, they didn't *promise* us new material every month (because they're not idiots), and yes, you can have a long (if deeply speculative) debate about what benefit or need there is for the hiatus. But a hiatus is there, and I can't call it what they originally promised.

...and now I am going to log in, because posting negatively about Uru is a bummer, whereas hanging out *in* Uru reminds me of what I like about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:33 am 
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Well, I do have to agree about most of what was said in this thread. I will have to stick with Ahnonay though. I personally found it to be great fun in multiplayer, and a fulfillment of what was probably the original vision. I won't say that my view is objective though, since I happen to be one of the few that was standing around in K'veer the moment Yeesha appeared, and however much I'm about to say along the lines of how immaterial and irrelevant the story was, that made me very exited. 8)

The point about the lack of effect on us still stands. We strongly suspected (if not actually "knew") that the Bahro "war" would not harm one hair on an explorers head other than NPCs, and that there would also be no physical consequences such as structural damage, which would have made it feel more immediate. I believe that making the whole thing more removed from us would have made it more engaging. Previous Cyan games told their story by having the player discover what happened in the past through a sort of 'seat of the pants' archaeological expedition, culminating in the surprise choice, the ability to affect the final outcome, which we would pass or fail based on how much we learned on the way.

The problem here is the persistent world. When the world is persistent, and every action you make actually happened, you can't just fail and retry from your last save, so things that can have an actual impact on your world have to either be put on 'rails', so you can only make the right choice, or be removed altogether. (actually, there is a third option, being the final outcome be a sort of sum of all the actions taken by all the explorers, which is the principle behind the pellet dropping and great zero calibration efforts)

As for me, my decision time has already rolled by, and my account is currently expired, but not deleted. I am continuing to stick around though, and will probably come back in sooner or later, and definitely will jump back in the instant there is some solid info about the future. Meanwhile, there's quite a bit being done at the Guild of Writers, which is where most of my Uru energy is going at this point.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:16 am 
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I, too, mostly agree with Axel, but I have not chosen at this time to end my GameTap subscription. However, if not for the additional content I receive through GameTap (specifically the Sam & Max episodes), I think my position might be more in line with Axel's.

However, I have one counterargument.

I still suspect the appearance of Yeesha so soon after the release of Ahnonay was not the way the Episode was originally planned... that is, I believe Ahnonay was intended to be released during "Deception" (it fit the episode title a lot better than the Guild Pubs). There was ample evidence to support an earlier planned release of Ahnonay that could have given players a full month (or more) to complete that Age and not feel left out.

But... I'll admit that I'm running out of energy to be an apologist for Cyan. Only a Cyantist can step up and set the record straight. I wish that one would. It might at least alleviate this one concern, the straw that broke the Bahro's back as Axel has termed it, because I know this has been a deal-breaker for more explorers than just Axel, and I think it's sad that we're losing players who might otherwise be convinced to stay if they were only given the right reason.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:18 am 
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One thing I have to say about this is that Cyan have nearly 4.5 months to get up and running. Maybe they need outside help, get a better server & get another large company to give them joint funding with Gametap. Meanwhile give us something to make our own stories. Dunno what they could give us but they need real motivation and need to do what they did with Myst and Riven. Think outside the box.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:33 am 
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I'm not telling to anyone not to leave.I understand,but I speak for myself.

I think about it,unlike you,as a whole game,and not episodes.

I'm not saying:

"This epiode was LAME! jalak is stupid and the worst age EVER!"

and later:

"This episode was better then the other one! but the pods have no puzzles! I'M LEAVING!"

I'm saying that in this year we got jalak dador,minkata,eders,pods,new story...

So,for me,this game is NOT lame.It's very,very good.I didn't expected allways old style content: puzzle ages.Remember that the whole point is EXLORATION,not PUZZLE SOLVING.We got to create games in an ancient d'ni arena,is it not enough?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:46 pm 
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For me the final straw was the way we were told about the season final.They could of said,hey we are out of money and need help with funds.Instead we got a big long streched out let down! Im not used to being played for a fool and I don't like it. I car pooled with a guy once, when it was his turn to pick me up for work he was afraid to tell me that he didn't have the gas money to come by my house,so he shut his phone off and went to work with out me and told our boss, he hadn't seen me.I showed up a hour late feeling like a fool.thats how how this game has made me feel.Waiting a long time for a big let down. Other online games have lots to offer ,so im thinking of burning this bridge for good also.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:17 pm 
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I'm not an easy quitter. If one route closes out I'll go looking for another... if I think the destination is worth working on. Uru, I thought, was worth the effort so I became a small-time impresario of musical events to give people one more excuse to log in at least one more time.

Now, though, like a tire with a slow leak, i'm pretty well flattened. Why? For me the answer is simple: no story. I played "Myst" because of the story; I felt as if I were inside a book, and I've always loved reading. "Riven" was even better, and the other games added to the story structure of D'ni and its people.

What has the last year of Uru Live added to the story? A very few small trees marking a nearly invisible line through a year-wide desert. Most of the few trees there are seem to have grown from the original roots. Things happen for no good reason and there is no way to find out more about the story behind them. Now we don't even have the trees, spindly as they were. We look ahead into more unmarked sand.

Cyan's people have been functionally silent. For the last two years the long-term players mentioned a few posts above have been playing on sizzle for the promise of steak sometime. We, the Explorers, can only make so much story ourselves because Cyan has all the notes, tools and ideas locked up in a cabinet that's purported to hold wonders. Where are they? Where is the news of Season 2?

Silent sand, spreading to the horizon. Is it worth the walk? What's the point if all there is over the next dune is more dry sand?

I re-upped for the coming year through Gametap. I'm paid through November, even if I never enter the game again. I hope some good reason to do so comes along. I'm tired of making the reasons myself. I think player-made content is a very good thing and there needs to be room for creativity in the Cavern. That's still an embellishment upon what should be a rich, story-filled environment. That's what Cyan is advertising, after all.

The old-line players I remember don't play any more. The new players come in from Gametap, blitz through the game and then leave, never to be seen again. Cyan, where is the story?

Episode 10, January-March 2008: Haemorrage.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:27 pm 
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raistlin75 wrote:
The stranger wrote:
AND,I think the pods journey was GRAET.I had great time figuring out the whole map thing.I felt like I'm actually doing something.So,for me,yes,the pods were one of the better things we got this year.

The pods were a big time sinkhole to keep people occupied. There's no real reason for the portals or the rewards or why to get them, except that "they're there." Buttons that make animal calls, power switches. Not to mention the fact that we weren't able to solve the pods upon their release because they didn't all appear at the same time and without the map the puzzle is unsolvable.


A common assumption seems to be that every Age has to have a puzzle, every Age has to have this big underlying concept to it. I'm afraid that isn't true, there will be Ages that don't have puzzles, Ages that are just Ages for pure aesthetics. The D'ni did not make every Age a mensa challenge.

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AND,jalak dador was a fun age too.Many people complained there is no puzzle in there.So? the spyroom has no puzzle.Teledahn's city office has no puzzle.The whole idea behind this age was very nice.

Jalak was terrible, I'll qualify this statement which the words "for Myst" it might have been fine as some desktop game. Yes, I'll cite "no puzzle" as a #1 reason, but you can't compare an age centered around an episode to a closet of a spyroom or city office which never had puzzles. #2 This would be the first time that a full age was introduced for no reason other than that dreaded word "sandbox". Meaning no solution, no rewards, no context. Jalak is directly responsible for getting lots of people one piece of straw closer to breaking that Bahro's back.


I'm afraid that "for Myst" doesn't qualify the statement, Uru isn't Myst, Uru is Uru, situated in the universe of Myst, but more of a spin off. Holding things in Uru up to Myst is an unwise choice as they are different kettles of fish.

Personally Jalak was one of my favorite Ages.

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The stranger wrote:
AND,minkata was amazing.Cyan Worlds really put some efforts and it came out to be a great age,with a great puzzle,a great age and a great music.

I'll give you Minkata. It was a fine level, the best thing they're done all year. The only quick problems I had is it was advertised as bigger that any of the other ages. Truth? yes. Trickery? a bit. There's only one fundimental puzzle in Minkata. Follow the coordinates to the cave; change to night; follow the correct constellation. Rinse and repeat until you have a portal to take you to another silent Bahro cave to get your raspberry-filled full stone donut.


I'm curious as to what would be an acceptable puzzle and reward?

I think it is worth thinking of Uru not as a game, but as a real place for a moment, Cyan has crafted Uru to be "real-life" as in people are there in D'ni etc. So if we were in a D'ni Age, modified by Yeesha to teach us about something, would it make sense for there to be an epic fireworks display, cake, and presents for completing a puzzle? No, getting something smaller and getting knowledge would make more sense (in terms of Yeesha's stuff). Same with D'ni puzzles, the puzzles like in Gira are not really puzzles for puzzles sake, its more getting around an obstacle like you find in daily life. I'm not saying never think of it as a game, I'm just saying it's worth looking at all the angles, "The Whole" as Ti'ana taught Atrus.

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The stranger wrote:
AND,the story was amazing too! I really wanted to be in-game when the bahros were in the cavern (though I saw one in the little time I was playing),or when weely died (I mean,I know you all sad for the death,but I still think it was a great move in the story) or when...when...there were many other good things,anyway.

I also think they've failed at storytelling at so many levels, it's unfair to name them all, but let's give it a go. No voices, chat logs only. If you're lucky enough to be online during and event, don't plan on moving or trying to take a picture or the lag will throw you clear from the server and you won't be getting back on until it's all over. The story mainly consists of them attempting to make us care about NPC most of us didn't know well. I don't ever feel in danger in a game where I can't be killed, harmed or set back in any way. Then there's the exciting political manuverings of the DRC it makes me pine for C-Span. And finally a war that we know is not going to scratch a brick of the ruins or affect us at all since the Bahro took the war out of town so everything can go back to looking before anything began.


I must agree the story lacked, Scars had the strongest story, but then it all took place on a stage without influence as such from the community. Which has been a problem all year, its like watching a stage show, not being able to join in like you used to be able to. There was involvement to a degree but no where near what could and should have been.
Back story was also an issue, Ages and area's were plonked in "here enjoy" to paraphrase Cate. There was no depth no history no back story to them.

A lot of the mystery of old isn't there any more.

I like Uru, it has always been my favorite but there are issues that do need to be resolved I feel.

Personally I'd like the episode format to go, I've never liked it and I never will, it's counter productive. It was put for people to catch events because they missed out not knowing what happened. Now people miss events because the place packs and you can't get in, it solved nothing the problems are still there. Instead things just stop at the end of the episodes course....kills any fan made stuff going, cause everyone just leaves the environment freezes until next time, it has no realism to it any more.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:31 pm 
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Lord Chaos wrote
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Episode 10, January-March 2008: Haemorrage.


I agree with him 100%

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:23 pm 
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So basically we've been steered from "cautious optimism" to "hopeful pessimism". That's not good.

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