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 Post subject: Guild of Dreamers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:39 am 
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How about the "Guild of Dreamers"?

Cuz thats about all you can do here in Uru.
Even if your Idea is stamped IC. It still has to go through the Canon committee, Linguists committee, Historian council, D'Ni&A Testing, Blah blah blah. By the time your Idea gets through all the critics, Spell checkers, and Grammer Police, its nothing more than Bahro Liver Patte.

Some fantasys are best left unimagined,
And some kitchens run best with only one Chef!

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Last edited by D'Neile on Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:01 am 
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@ D'Neile:
The Imaginists would not have to go through any canon-checking. What they are doing is encouraging ICness; not role-playing necessarily, just acting IC. No one needs permission for that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:11 am 
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Gorobay wrote:
......

Where did he say they would be playing OOC?

From the bottom of this post...
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewto ... 508#265508
Quote:
But I just can't see an IC function of the Imaginists, or even a need for any kind of organizational *structuring*

If it ain't IC, it has to be OOC, yes ???

Me still laughting a lot with my belly dancing on the chair.....Image


Last edited by Artic_Wagon on Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Guild of Dreamers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:44 am 
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D'Neile wrote:
How about the "Guild of Dreamers"?

That's for me...

Here's mine:

If I can be so bold.

IMHO

Not pointing fingers at any one. Not dredging up the past.

An attempt at some clean air.

Some things that will really make all this take-off and really be something is:

Open public areas are just that. Sorta anything goes there. It is a crap shoot. We all have to endure the diversity of the community in these public places.

With the hood instances you will have almost everything to yourselves. Having our own hood instances, there should no problems.

Refrain from openly being critical of other’s versions of IC and or OOC in open public areas and the forums.

If some one stumbles into your space, please be nice and courteously inform them of what is going on and give them a chance to ramp up and or just sit back and or watch and or learn something and or link out and or move on.

There are some incredibly knowledgeable folks here. I learn something new every time I read here and listen else where. Share that knowledge and help others to realize wonders.

Intolerance is our doom. We need to embrace the diversity of the community for this game to survive. No one or two groups can support it. It will take all of us.

On a personal note:

I hope we have a diversity of shards. Cyan’s one and only of course and a broad spectrum of First Cabin IC to the purple haired green skinned. All playing our brand of URU and livin' the DREAM.

"What do I want to do tonight, hmmmm" looks down the menu (remembering the'D'ni Network', ‘URU Locator’, ‘UU Shard Directory’) “OH! WOW man look wutt’s happenin’ over on 'Comedy Night' ……….”

VUROOOooommm …… (linkin’ out sound inserted here)

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:11 pm 
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very much so, semp. These are things I want to make sure are clear:

No lines should be drawn as to IC and OOC space, unless designated by the individual hoods. Public spaces can be either, you can't force it... and there's ways to be if you are one, and come into a space that is the other

You can't make someone be either, and there are ways to politely interact, without problems.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Ian Atrus wrote:
It's going to be a hard battle, though; apparently, pretending that the environment around you is real is hard.

Really? Is this a serious or facetious statement?


It's serious. I noticed a lot of people really had a hard time with the concept of being IC in Uru, or even just half-IC. Even after explaining that it had little to do with role-playing, and it was just about pretending that the Cavern was real, the usual reaction was of bewilderment or something on the lines of "that's too much work, I'm just here to play".

That's not to say I want everyone to play IC. I slip between IC and OOC all the time, depending on the crowd and the mood, and if someone doesn't want/like to play IC no one should force him. I just find it hard to understand how anyone could find being IC difficult.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:49 pm 
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What Ian said. Getting people to grok the idea of immersiveness, or playing environmentally, has been really difficult. Either they didn't quite get what was being talked about, and/or they confused it with 'roleplaying' a character.

S'part of the drive behind this, to get the people who can do it, to keep doing it, where they can be seen, so that others can learn by example.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:06 pm 
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Okay, I get it, now. It makes more sense when I understand that you were talking about other people. And, yes, I agree, so, again, this is a great idea. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:02 am 
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Gorobay wrote:
@ D'Neile:
The Imaginists would not have to go through any canon-checking. What they are doing is encouraging ICness; not role-playing necessarily, just acting IC. No one needs permission for that.


WOW, guess I am confused still after 3 years of this debate. Guess I can't comprehend how pretending to be In a Real Cavern, or are you saying the Imaginists are "Acting" as if your pretending to be in a real cavern, Not the same as Role playing? Actors have a script I guess. Role players pretend they are something they are not.

So tell me. If John Q'canon says he's Mr Farmer Dood who grows flappers on the side for extra income. Is He IC, Role Playing, Acting a part sanctioned by Cyan, or trying to pull the wool over yer eyes? And can he do it with out someone saying it's not canon, cuz the Teledahn police have laws protecting the flappers, or Douglas Sharper is the only person allowed to keep them in captivity? I have seen first hand people try this to ruin somones fun in this community and it's downright cruel. IMHO it's too close to RL where people just arent happy unless yer miserable.

It's gonna take a serious Psychosis on my part I assume to ever understand the fine line trying to be drawn in this Game/Real place debate. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:12 am 
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D'Neile wrote:
Gorobay wrote:
@ D'Neile:
The Imaginists would not have to go through any canon-checking. What they are doing is encouraging ICness; not role-playing necessarily, just acting IC. No one needs permission for that.


WOW, guess I am confused still after 3 years of this debate. Guess I can't comprehend how pretending to be In a Real Cavern, or are you saying the Imaginists are "Acting" as if your pretending to be in a real cavern, Not the same as Role playing? Actors have a script I guess. Role players pretend they are something they are not.

Hopefully I can try to clear the air a bit here... if not, well, then hopefully I'm not blowing smoke in an un-appreciated direction.

Role-playing would be taking on a character and "performing" in the game in some way. J.D. Barnes, Echo McKenzie, and (less spectacularly) Sydney Austin were all role-players. They played parts and contributed to the collective fiction of the game's story.

In-Cavern is simply treating the game world as a real place, and behaving like you are your avatar, actually exploring that place. There's no role-playing required to do this, just suspension of disbelief (or what kids like to call "playing pretend" ;)). Playing in-cavern, you would ideally refrain from mentioning the game as a game; ultimately it comes down to using in-game metaphors for your actions whenever possible. Rather than saying you were signing off for the night, for example, you'd say you were returning to Relto. Rather than directly referring to the link-in delay in a crowded instance as a server issue, you might simply state that it's taking an unusually long time to completely link into that area. It all comes down to perception and terminology, and admittedly, while it's fun to pretend, it's not something that everybody wants to do.

Now, IC has its limitations, and players should ideally be flexible enough to recognize when being IC is detrimental to the experience of others and react accordingly. For example, a new explorer asking how to change their screen resolution should be given a straightforward explanation of the process, even though doing so requires "stepping OOC". They shouldn't be met with the text chat equivalent of blank stares and "I don't know why you have a screen in front of your face down here"-type responses.

I'd say that role-players are more able to avoid stepping OOC because they're actually performing as part of the game world, but the number of video game characters who have told me to press the B button to save my game has sort of weakened any case I might have there.

Speaking from the perspective of a former ResEng, it was often a fine line to ride when it came to being in-cavern. On the one hand, I was a character in the game and was expected to act like I was actually in there, not in front of a computer screen in Spokane. On the other hand, a lot of my responsibilities included doing things that were obviously OOC, like getting people unstuck from walls and telling people how to use the game menu to get help. Whenever possible, I was simply myself, working for an organization that didn't exactly pay me top dollar, dealing with a constant barrage of questions from other people who had found this strange underground cavern. I even got clever when it came to telling people how to do OOC things like using the game menu by telling them to press buttons on their "KI-board" to access the various functions like contacting support. However, if asked a pointedly OOC question, I'd give up the rouse and give a straight answer. In a sense, I was doing all three things - role-playing as a ResEng, being IC as myself, and stepping OOC to answer technical questions - every time I logged into the game for my shift... so just because someone might choose to subscribe to a certain style of play doesn't mean it's the only way they are allowed to play the game.

Okay, that's more than enough smoke-blowing from me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:01 am 
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Great explanation, Alahmnat!

My first experiences in the cavern were in the city watching people get up on the invisible ledge over the railing on the Great Stairs and then in the GoG Bevin where they were almost strictly OOC. It wasn't until I started hanging out in the Beginner's Bevin with the ResEngs that I picked up on IC speak and found out how much fun it could be. The ResEngs are a good model to follow because they would set a good IC example, but at the same time, allow for OOC. I think the purpose of the Imaginists is to simply provide more of this kind of atmosphere.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Kinda why I posted the IC/OOC article - http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2252


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 pm 
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And all great explanations. Pardon my previous rant. It's just personal experience blinding my path.

Maybe when Cyan develops the first portable Holodeck, IC will be more "realistic". Ha!

I think most people are IC to some degree. They want the "Suspension of Disbelief".
It's not difficult at all to "pretend" the cavern is real, actually it's kinda boring if you just leave it at that. To just be here and not affect anything or have a real place in the community. And honestly not everyone can be part of the Game/Cyan storyline core operation.

I think the foul up comes when Joe Blow comes in believing he is in a real cavern, and wants to run his own Flapper Export company. And gets bombarded with why their way of playing isn't part of the storyline, or insulted that their play is stupid or makes no sense.

I don't think IC is incomprehensible. I guess the reality for most people is they do have that OOC moment and need to know it's ok to be human, and are living in the Real World too. Some bastions of IC have IMO just made it unfun, or worth the effort. So they just do their own thing and say "darn the Ship".

I hope this time If MORE takes off. Finally the day of "IC Ignorant" New comers, joining, and getting bashed to bits by the IC police will be over. And Hopefully if the Shard thing works out. IC can have their own place, and it can be expected that everyone is leaving their keyboards on the surface when they come in. And that Joe Blow can live in peace making a sucessful living off his Flapper exports, and Homemade Shroomie Sauce Secret Recipe . :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:04 am 
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That is a truly snazzy explanation 'nat... and the OOC/IC document is upon the site, too.

That's part of why I've been using the term immersive or environmental instead of IC, IC has some assumtions of roleplay with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:12 am 
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I think that this guild is great as long as it is of the same level as the Guild Of Reptile Trainers. The minute this Guild starts to try to be official and control people outside it this situation becomes a nightmare.

To clarify:

As soon as this stops being a IC "group" and starts trying to be a major guild... then this is not fine (with me at least).

I think that It'd be nice to have some groups that aren't "guilds" because don't you think some people from other guilds would like to join? Having multi-guild membership demeans the Guild system put forth by Cyan. IMO

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