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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:52 pm 
zander_nyrond wrote:
No-one is confused here, Regnad, except apparently you.


I didn't respond to you, Zander.

Several people have attempted in different ways to break the cycle of confusion that has devolved this topic into a cloud of meaningless and fragmented arguing that contains little if any real joy.

Calem’s discomfort is real. His question makes that clear, yet he immediately dives right back into the same cycle again as if it will produce a different result. He is blind to his own confusion.

Only a person who is similarly confused, would see my response as trolling behavior. A troll seeks to instigate emotional and irrational arguments that have no purpose other than the argument itself. I attempted to show a way to bring peace to one that had already emerged. I attempted to do it in a way that hadn't been tried yet.

If you have a personal problem that involves only me, then It would be more appropriate to address it privately.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Time for post #2 to this nine-page thread.

I'd like to see the community build a team large enough to make a pipeline worthy of Cyan's best and biggest for large expansion packs. This is the kind of scope individual efforts cannot hope to match.

I'd like to see individual efforts build the potential for Uru to become a showcase for great talent to be recognized. This is something that a pipeline will diminish and dilute.

One does not preclude the other and they can be synergistic if you let them.

P.S. The sheer energy that Jennifer has exhibited and devoted in a positive way to these things just about everywhere has always amazed and impressed me. I get a sense from everyone in this thread that time spent convincing the inconvincible is wasted potential of time better spent doing something productive. And that time is better spent on the people who come willingly through outreach rather than making them come through the quasi-religious ferver of evangelism or prosthelization and the promulgation of a "right" or "wrong" way of subjective things.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Calem’s discomfort is real. His question makes that clear, yet he immediately dives right back into the same cycle again as if it will produce a different result. He is blind to his own confusion.


Wooowww... I'm not sure how you gleaned that from one sentence, but ok...

I'm not confused. I said that because I really don't enjoy arguing about this, yet I feel it is important enough that some of the major misconceptions here need to be cleared up, and nobody else seems to be getting to the heart of the matter, so I'm trying to.

Of course, JWPlatt kind of just summed up what I was going to say, so...

To sum it up even further: Jennifer, you've spent a lot of time here, and it's obvious that your goal is to convince people to 'join a team'. It's also obvious that we're not interested. Why not just say what you have to say and let people choose for themselves?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:57 pm 
Regnad Kcin wrote:
zander_nyrond wrote:
No-one is confused here, Regnad, except apparently you.


Only a person who is similarly confused, would see my response as trolling behavior


Oh, I wasn't just talking about this thread. I call it as I see it. I just recently found out its true name.

And as Calam said, we are not confused, and there is nothing in this thread to suggest that we are.

Calam wrote:
I really don't enjoy arguing about this, yet I feel it is important enough that some of the major misconceptions here need to be cleared up, and nobody else seems to be getting to the heart of the matter, so I'm trying to.


I think we're all getting to the heart of the matter from our own separate directions. We're all saying much the same thing--that the title of this thread is not actually a true statement, that there are nine and sixty ways of Writing Ages and every single one of them is right (Kipling), and that we're not going to be convinced that any particular way is wrong, or will not by its nature produce popular and successful Ages, till we've seen how it actually works out in practice with MORE. It seems to be one thing that most of the people who post regularly are in agreement on. And it keeps needing to be restated because Jennifer keeps rearing up titanic edifices of argument aimed at countering what we're saying. It's a pain, but it's worth doing, so that nobody coming in cold gets the wrong idea. If they also get the idea that this forum is full of tenacious, eloquent and sometimes brilliant disputants who enjoy defending their diverse points of view (and then there's me...) well, that's no more than the truth. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:47 pm 
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I post just to debate with Jennifer. She's a good friend of mine that I've worked with in MOUL with the SR (Subterrainian Restorations) group, and had a lot of fun.

Jennifer is a very talented young lady with a brilliant imagination, and has helped a multitude of people (yes, even soloist Age Creators) over at the GoW forum, especially with her Blender Classroom.

I debate with her so that she doesn't have to go out and Moose Hunt too much! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:18 am 
Oh, agreed. I don't know her as well as you, Andy, but it's obvious from Jennifer's posts that she is as passionate about Uru as we are, and that's more important than a difference of opinion on ways and means.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:30 am 
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zander_nyrond wrote:
Oh, agreed. I don't know her as well as you, Andy, but it's obvious from Jennifer's posts that she is as passionate about Uru as we are, and that's more important than a difference of opinion on ways and means.


Well said, z.:)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:42 am 
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zander_nyrond wrote:
I've been the one who was right (and nobody listened to me) when we put out the issue of the school newspaper that got us closed down...

Zander, please tell me what you published that got the paper closed down. Please? :-)
Are schools a "Free-Speech Free Zone"?

This whole thread is just trying to convince people on both sides that they don't have valid points when they do. It's sort of what the people go through who vote for the 3rd party like the Liberterians or Independents in the presidential election. They're told they're "throwing their vote away" and "helping the other Republicans win", but if what your beliefs aren't represented by the 2 major parties then it becomes a matter of voting in the lesser evil. If someone feels they're better on their own, they should be shamed into a big group "for the good of the community". The best thing you can do for any community is to hold fast to what you believe.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:46 pm 
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Regnad Kcin wrote:
Calem’s discomfort is real. His question makes that clear, yet he immediately dives right back into the same cycle again as if it will produce a different result. He is blind to his own confusion..

Isn't that the definition of "crazy" - to do the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result?

So, you think Calam is... ?

tsk, tsk, tsk

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:09 pm 
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darn, darn, darn!

This wonderful young woman has, in some of her opinions and feeling expressed exactly some of the points I have been trying to get across but not quite being able to vocalize.

Now, yes, some of them turned into reactionary arguments, which is what will happen when you have argumentative posters who will post centrally contrary posts for the sake of contrariness. However, the emotions she had riding behind the points were valid - she felt that a group effort would be worth more than a lone effort - and got rewarded with the "well, look at Eh'ko" card that I got. Now, yes, the tree-and-pool age is VERY pretty and yes, it is a great project. However it was both hard to find in these forums and it seems to have died.

Now, thankfully, she hasn't been scared off or put off - the ERC age is being constructed in the Guild of Writers forums as we speak (and, no that was not an invitation to the peanut gallery to resume their flinging). However, what it is illustrating is that even if people are asked for opinions or help they give only the vaguest yes or the most diffuse form of No that I have ever seen.

Now, the Genesis concept was to be an Age celebrating the new Era of Uru. The ERC age is celebrating the will of people to collaborate. I will have to approach Jennifer about it, but I feel that if we have constructive criticisms and advice from the community it could truly a memorably beautiful and entertaining age - one that could be showcased as the reinvention of Uru as a whole to draw inn new blood.

Retorts? Arguments?

Shevek


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