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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:54 pm 
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There has been much talk about the flaws of Uru and its live versions. To me, much of this is about things that aren't flaws but design decisions. Myst just isn't like most of the mainstream games, and the attempts at various times to bring these games closer to the perceived mainstream were, to me, failures. Myst 3 had that nutty story of the guy with the hammer I was supposed to let go free. Myst 4 brought back the brothers I never wanted to see again, in an attempt to put some "action" in the game. Myst Online brought us the phony Bahro war (phony to me because it just popped up out of nowhere).

What was missing in all of these was the sense of connection with the deep history of the D'ni. I doubt there will ever be a large number of people playing a game just to uncover a story, but to me, playing Myst and Riven was like being inside a book. No other game has done that. Perhaps no game ever will again, but I'd like to see this aspect come back. In order to do so you need a writer of a coherent story and then people to produce the Ages in which that story is presented. It's a lot of work, and likely not to appeal to large numbers.

Who will know until someone tries? The problem is that it will take a lot of money for what is, in many ways, an art project.

I would drop Guild Wars in a minute if such a game came to be. I'm tired of GW's lack of sensitivity; the ony way to advance is to kill things. I'd rather make things, even if it's only designs with cones.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:46 pm 
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I finished the podcast last night, and the part that really got to me was at the end; that they are giving up on the podcasts after the next one because they really think it is a lost cause. That was the biggest bummer of the whole 'cast.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:14 pm 
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biggest concern after hearing the latest episode was that it sounded like they were loosing hope. And if hope is gone, why make a podcast for it? And if the TCT goes, the community will have been dealt a huge blow, and Uru will die even more


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I finished the podcast last night, and the part that really got to me was at the end; that they are giving up on the podcasts after the next one because they really think it is a lost cause. That was the biggest bummer of the whole 'cast.


I like the TCT podcasts and having just heard the last one, I agree with a lot of what was said in thier "chatterbox" - although much of it has already been discussed to death already and I don't think there was anything new to be added to the arguements.

However, I found the fact that it was suggested that Cyan should give up on Uru, a little disturbing. I feel strongly if MORE gets off the ground, it could become a viable money earner for Cyan. If the Myst Movie goes into production, it could be used to generate and sustain interest in the Myst universe, that in itself could create a demand to expand the Myst universe in some way and maybe reboot the franchise in some direction...books, films, games. Who knows?.

There isn't much Myst stuff around at the moment and gradually there may be less and eventually there could be none.

With the decision to cut TCT podcasts, I feel a big slice of what little there is, is going. Ok, so there isn't a great deal to say right now, but I would prefer some periodic podcasts now and again, than basically flushing away what little piece of the Cavern there is left.

It seems more and more people are giving up and this is something we really don't need right now.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:22 pm 
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If they want to stop their show, that's okay. It's really a lot of work when you have no hope, as they clearly do not. It was done on their time, their efforts, and their talents. We can't demand their time, and shouldn't. And I'd rather it not continue if they're just going to do things which are not about "the Cavern today" and distribute the pessimism. We listen to TCT because of Uru. There's not much point in having a show about all the other MMOs because that would be a different show about everything but Uru. That much is understandable about their decision.

But to broadcast such fatalism, like intentionally spreading a disease, is bad. And it's terribly premature. But it's bold, and they'll either be seen in retrospect as realistic thinkers or outrageous fools. Realistic or not, they're taking it upon themselves in the moment to speak for Cyan when they categorically state, by word and by deed, that Uru will not be back. Cyan has not spoken. I wouldn't expect them to speak for at least several months. The signs I see are of a possible future not before the beginning of 2009. Ironically, that could be shortly after TCT has given up their ghost. I look forward to what they might have to say for themselves in their return broadcast.

As for the final broadcast, this two-episode setup seems too much like a eulogy and a wake for me to be much interested. What was it Mark Twain said? Yeah, you got it.

I should also point out that the TCT shows are off topic to the title of this thread. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Very well said, JW.
Each of your points was on the mark.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:33 pm 
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There has been much talk about the flaws of Uru and its live versions. To me, much of this is about things that aren't flaws but design decisions.


For me, these are "design flaws". The story wasn't well connected and acted. The content wasn't at the quality we hoped for.

But I stay here, in hope that something will happen.

So, TCT are going down? another death to MOUL. 10 more members leaving (yes, I know they are not leaving, but I bet that without TCT there won't be a lot..).

I refuse to give up because I can see what myst online uru live can be.

You know, in the last months I was really bored, so I wrote, bit by bit, sort of a "walkthrough" for how I wanted MOUL to be. Today I finished the part of the path from the surface to d'ni, until you reach the 'hood. Maybe I'll post it?

Back to the topic, I couldn't say it better than ghame.

It seems more and more people are giving up and this is something we really don't need right now.

I'll keep waiting for something, I guess.

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Last edited by ThedStranger on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:08 pm 
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Well, considering the implied message of the thread title, I know it's not directed at me as I haven't lost mine, however, it spurred an idea: perhaps now would be the time to be drawing together the community from the various fractured groups out there i.e. Second Life and bringing them back here. We know they're out there - we sent them there, so perhaps Cyan could use the added enthusiasm from some departed community friends and get them interested in some other Cyan products to give a boost and perhaps one towards take MORE off suspension!? ;)

TG

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:45 pm 
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You read my mind TG. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:59 pm 
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I'm surprised no one from TCT has weighed in yet, so I'll throw in my tuppence. (Edit - oops, I didn't realize this is the same thread I commented in before...) One of the main reasons we're closing TCT isn't related to dying interest in Uru, so much as a dying interest in TCT itself. The few of us left on the staff are still nuts about the podcast. It's been a true labor of love for the last 3+ years, and we love what we do. But our own numbers have been dwindling, to the point where only six of us contributed to Topside 4. The reduced numbers, plus our busy school and work schedules, have suggested to us that maybe it's time to hang it up for a while.

And ironically, TCT was born during UU, when Uru was in a static state and its future was unknown. We created TCT as a means of inspiring the community and fanning up interest in the Cavern. In UU we all had to pretty much create our own entertainment, and TCT was our outlet. We're all thrilled that it's still around after three years, and it means a lot to us to see posts like the ones above. One of the funny things about podcasts is that you can throw your heart and soul into them, but once they're out there, you just have to assume that folks are enjoying them... or for that matter, even listening to them. Hearing real feedback is huge, and we actually don't get very much.

The TCT team is by no means breaking up. Our forum will remain active indefinitely, and personally, I'd love to keep contributing to online audio in some form. I'm hooked. And actually, we've maintained in some online chats amongst the staff that should Uru come back, in any form, TCT will be there to support it again. Realize that we're not quitting TCT because we want to! We'd really rather not. We've worked very hard to build our podcasting skills, and I have to admit that we're probably our own biggest fans. But as a news reporting and entertainment product, we agreed that we didn't want to repeatedly broadcast the same depressing news until Uru comes back, which could be a long time, or until an official shutdown is announced. The forums are doing a fine job of covering the doom and gloom aspect, along with the pie-in-the-sky proposals contingent. We didn't want to go there, and at the moment, there's not much else to do.

So yes, the curtain will come down on TCT after Topside 5. We have some great ideas for the last 'cast. It will be a tribute to Uru, Cyan, and TCTs past.

And again, if Uru comes back TCT will be there in a heartbeat.

"For The Cavern Today, this is Mowog, signing off!"

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Last edited by Mowog on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Thanks Mowog! That is a very good reason for halting the podcasts. I never missed listening to them, and I thought I had all of them, but I seem to have misplaced some of the early ones.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:29 pm 
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Thanks Mowog! That is a very good reason for halting the podcasts.


Fair enough, I can sleep a little easier knowing the full story beind the TCT closure is a resource & time thing. Those guys have done a great job and I look forward to these podcasts coming back at some time in the near future. (not to mention return of Uru, of course)

But listening to it and not knowing the full reasons behind closure, really does paint a very bad picture of "Cyan should finish Uru" followed by "No more podcasts" - which is going to provoke some strong reaction by those who feel that a significant part of (whats left) of the Cavern is giving up and walking away - which now reading Mowog's post was not the intention and maybe a little of "why" the podcasts were being closed would have taken the sting out of it and not left a bad impression.

Time is going forward, the community is getting thinner. We need to cling on to what little is left or Uru will just evaporate into obscurity.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:14 am 
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Time is going forward, the community is getting thinner. We need to cling on to what little is left or Uru will just evaporate into obscurity.


That's exactly what I (and hope everyone else) will plan on doing. I've been working very hard with the Guild of Writers, who are making amazing progress. I hope the guilds may help keep others together as well. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:53 am 
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I know Cyan is going through tough times right now, which as you know has caused MORE to be held indefinitly. However, I do not think, at all, that this is the end of the road for any online form of Uru. If it were, Cyan would have made it pretty clear that Uru Live won't be returning. But they didn't. They said it was put on hold, not thrown in the trash. Plus, if they were going to trash it, they might have also had this whole forum taken down, because why advertise a game that is never going to exist? It costs money, which has been very tight on Cyan lately.


Sorry, but no thanks. Uru is a game. I have more important things that deserve my dedication and daily attention. If it's on hold, then I'm going to treat it like it's been canned. I check the forums on occasion because it still interests me. Cyan isn't planning to trash it. They'll probably bring it back eventually. But how long am I supposed to wait? Furthermore, what am I even waiting for? Should I sit around being enthusiastic for another year in hopes of something I have no guarantee will happen in another year? And then what? We get an announcement that Cyan has picked it up again. Which will be followed by another 6 months of silence with the occasional blurb by a Cyan employee on how little progress they've made.

By the time it comes back I will have had way more waiting than I can handle. I've been waiting for something to happen pretty much ever since MO:UL was announced. First it was the launch of beta. Then it was open beta. Then it was long gaps between anything happening in-game. Then it was waiting between episodes. Then was waiting during episodes. Then it was the wait between Season 1 and the hoped-for Season 2. And then the long wait after it was announced defunct. And then the wait for the announcement that Gametap was giving it back. And then the other long wait for signs of moving forward.

And then finally the announcement that MO:UL is on hold and we'll have to wait for an undetermined amount of time before we can do...guess what... More waiting. Each period of waiting has been followed up by bigger and bigger disappointments.

Enough is enough. Goodbye, Uru.

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Last edited by Calam on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:53 am 
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On the TCT podcasts - what I think would be neat is to do something like a TCIE - The Cavern in Exile. The idea would be to focus on wherever there is a community, wherever people are gathering and doing some interesting stuff. Perhaps you could do something on the in character Uru blogs, the ages being created (solo player game) and the various groups in other online worlds. This is not TCE - it's the online world in exile, so it's different. The idea is to find the community where it is - the whole diasphora thing. I don't think you can get people away from their other online worlds and other pursuits, but you can focus on the idea that, wherever they are, they take a bit of Uru with them.

This is suggestion for anyone who thinks it's a good idea and has the time, desire and inclination to do it. I know that many of us are super busy now, so no pressure at all - just a thought.

Also, as far as I can tell, the people involved in other online worlds periodically come back and check to see what's going on. They either come back here or come back to their favorite Uru forum, such as Uru Obsession - so they will be up on any news.

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Last edited by mszv on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:18 am 
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mszv wrote:

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On the TCT podcasts - what I think would be neat is to do something like a TCIE - The Cavern in Exile.


An excellent thought, and one we've already discussed at length in the TCT forums. In fact, my latest Mowog Thought was intended to be the first of several such features covering the Uru community in Second Life and what it takes to become a part of it.

But since I recorded that piece, a funny thing happened... I played Uru ABM again. And after getting used to SL, the worlds of Uru looked simply magnificent in comparison... to the point where I can't get all that excited about going back to SL, even though I know I should. There are plenty of good people there, but it's just not Uru. Plus, we're watching our budget at the moment as our son finishes college, and I'd rather avoid the expense of getting more deeply into SL.

Mowog

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