It is currently Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:41 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 453 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
I think whether one watches the video or reads the transcript they come away with different impressions.

In the video I think it is clear Rand is speculating and dreaming... In the transcript are the words 'LIKE TO' ... which fits with the context of his delivery style at the time and supports the non-definitive nature of his rambling. His saying ‘still have Open Source…’ seems to indicate that yes they are doing open source. Why you choose to decide his use of open source means something drastically different than the standard definition seems irrational.

Later saying that he thinks sever and related need to be kept together would also seem to indicate that open source will be client, server and Plasma or game design tools.

Trying to assign motives and absolutes to someone speaking off the cuff and obviously trying to recall what had been decide some time before then claiming that this proves he is not going to release any open source because he says ‘keepers’ … is just not sellable here. He or Mark said similar things about the source earlier this year. Cyan has always wanted to maintain the source code main branch. So, that part is nothing new. Statements in between then and this by Rand and Mark have been consistent with what several are trying to get across to you.

How they filter fan content is about how they control what goes on the server they would –like- to run. That really does not prevent fans from doing as they choose on other servers.

Until Cyan actually does something and releases something we cannot settle this point. Several of us did not see/hear what you seem to take from reading the transcript.

I disagree with Anaerin that anything implies they –will- be running a game server. So, far other than a server to distribute MOUL content they have not said what they would do. Rand only said they would –like- to run a game server. I think he made it clear all of this is dependent on circumstances at Cyan.

The way he rambles and his thoughts wonder we can’t really know what is in his head or its final form when it does time to actually do something. I think much of this is speculation and dreams on his part and his intention is to keep options open.

I would much rather know how the MagiQuest project affects the open source timing.

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am
Posts: 4134
There are two good orientations for Open Uru to go, in my opinion. One:

Cyan's server/shard (similar to D'mala) is "official" and has all the complicated vetting of content, etc. All Ages/code changes to this shard would have to go through Cyan. This allows Cyan to be able to quickly release content if they so choose, and also allows a "safe" place for those users who are uncomfortable with fan-run shards.

Fan shards are "unofficial" and standards are looser and based on each shard owner's opinion. Some would be more like Cyan's, others would be much more experimental. These would be for tests or small groups to enjoy their own world, set their own rules, and be more open to unconventional ideas.

Two:

Shards would all be fan-run, but they could choose which Ages were to be available on their shard, decide the rules, etc. Cyan could have their own Age data server where Cyan's own Ages are hosted for shards to download. If Cyan wanted to make content, they could put it up on this server (this could also tie into a pay-for-download of the Age for offline use).

Personally, I like the second option. Cyan makes money selling the individual Ages both to the shard owner to put on his/her shard, as well as to the player for online access and offline use.
I agree with jmdogett, though, that what Rand described is not open source. The server, client, and tool codes must be released in order for this to be called Open Uru. Otherwise, it's just the old UU with a couple new Ages in them once Cyan filters them. Personally, I want to choose which Ages I see, not Cyan.

_________________
-Whilyam
Cavern Link:My IC Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:07 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6231
Location: Everywhere, all at once
So you can see, jmdoggett, that yours is just one interpretation among many to come and not so absolute as you might wish it to be. I believe your interpretation is wrong.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:33 pm
Posts: 45
Look Rand didn't answer a question about a code repository. He was asked specifically about the server code. And I WOULD turn my nose up at them running that. I desire to build my own universe out of the entire OS code. Yes, I did desire to run MOUL too, but that isn't gonna happen. If it was he would have simply said "Yep, we are releasing everything listed on the website. We have to yank out a couple pieces we don't own."

Gee that was easy.

But that is not what happened. Like I said, I've seen and heard that song before. What I think happened is they changed their minds about what they wanted to OS. I dont have a problem with that, its their work. What I have a problem with is them dancing around the issue and not being clear, precise and timely in putting out information. Twice he said what they want is content from the community.

Rand presented in his own way notification of Cyan's change of plans. I'm not interpreting anything. What he said is very clear.

I don't have anything else to say on this subject. If you want to kid yourself into thinking they will release everything OS, more power to you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: Israel
jmdoggett, I think you are really looking into the whole thing too seriously. When I, and many others see the video, it appears that all that Rand is saying is that they will release the source, but they would love to be in the business. And if I analyze it, look deep into it, try to learn it's deeper truth... I find there is non. All he said is that they will try to be around in Uru, open their own server maybe. That's where I would stop, because it makes sense to stop here. But we could take your way... so let's look a bit more... oh! he said "server" and "us" on the same sentence! they will never release the code! they lie!

It doesn't work like that. They didn't lie yet. All Rand said is that they would love to open their own server. He said *nothing* about not releasing anything they said they will, or messing with other people's servers.

Or maybe he did? he could mean that. You may be right. Maybe they lied, indeed. But until we see something like a statement of "we will not do open source and keep the source", it's too soon to shout "they lie! they lie!".

Beside, even if they will not release the source (even to several people and not the whole community), which will indeed be sad, I don't think it means they lied. They usually said that they "hope" to release the source, and when they didn't, well you got to understand a company as small as Cyan Worlds cannot put everything they want to action, and even if they don't write that they "hope" to release it, you still got to take it as this. It's not Ubisoft. Anything can happen. It appears that you are the one taking Rand as "Lord Rand". It may come out, it may not. Time will tell.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:20 pm
Posts: 303
jmdoggett wrote:
Look Rand didn't answer a question about a code repository. He was asked specifically about the server code. And I WOULD turn my nose up at them running that. I desire to build my own universe out of the entire OS code. Yes, I did desire to run MOUL too, but that isn't gonna happen. If it was he would have simply said "Yep, we are releasing everything listed on the website. We have to yank out a couple pieces we don't own."

Yes, he did. To copypasta from your very own quote not so long ago in this very thread:
Rand wrote:
...so we still have no other plans other than to do Open Source and like to move it out there

jmdoggett wrote:
Gee that was easy.

But that is not what happened. Like I said, I've seen and heard that song before. What I think happened is they changed their minds about what they wanted to OS. I dont have a problem with that, its their work. What I have a problem with is them dancing around the issue and not being clear, precise and timely in putting out information. Twice he said what they want is content from the community.

Rand was trying to clarify there current position. It can be broken down like this:
  • We are still doing Open Source, however
  • We have third-party code within the source we can't distribute
  • We also have paying work we are doing
  • Therefore, Paying work takes priority, followed by removing all third-party code we don't have the legal right to distribute/open source, and finally releasing the source to the community in a complete and working state
  • Sometime in the (near) future, we would like to run our own game server, which may have approved "community" ages on it
If they don't release "working" source, it will be very difficult for an outside developer to debug and write back in the third-party libraries they have had to write out, thus they want to release a "ready to compile" package that can then be worked upon.
jmdoggett wrote:
Rand presented in his own way notification of Cyan's change of plans. I'm not interpreting anything. What he said is very clear.

Evidently not, as you are misreading the "very clear" statements he has already made.
jmdoggett wrote:
I don't have anything else to say on this subject. If you want to kid yourself into thinking they will release everything OS, more power to you.

I'm not kidding myself, or anyone else. They will release everything Open Source. They have committed to that wholeheartedly, and when they have the time and resources to do so, they will. It is just that there are some minor technical and monetary issues they need to overcome first.

You seem to be misconstruing far to much from the "We want to run a server", reading it as "we want to run the only server", which is not the case at all.

_________________
Avatar: Anaerin
Ki: 118686


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: Israel
Quote:
You seem to be misconstruing far to much from the "We want to run a server", reading it as "we want to run the only server", which is not the case at all.


Exactly. Rand was very clear: they want to run a server. Does it mean they will shut down all other servers for their own? no, he didn't say that. All he said is that they want to open their own server. Very clear. If they would want to shut down our servers or not release the code, they will say that.

However, I'm not so sure they will release Uru. They may, and they may not. It's too soon to be sure they will just because of several things they said, just as it's too soon to be sure they won't release it just because of several things they said.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:46 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 12:55 pm
Posts: 9852
Location: Luton, UK
And if Cyan does eventually run a version of their own, we will be back to the original MORE.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6231
Location: Everywhere, all at once
MORE would be a subset of open source. MORE did not include source except the plugin. Open source includes all server, client, and tool code.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:05 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 12:55 pm
Posts: 9852
Location: Luton, UK
Ok, a modified MORE.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: Israel
Personally I hope Cyan Worlds will run their own "official" server, while releasing the source and letting us open our own server, where we can make what we want, as long as we follow rules that follows the canon. In case they want a monthly fee, they will have to ask for the fee from all payers, in all servers. Also, I would like to see Cyan Worlds letting *several people* open their own server where they can mess up with the whole thing, even with the canon, as long as they don't go above, let's say, 30 people in such a server.

It would be "the perfect scene" for me :) .

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:45 pm 
"Tell me if any of this sounds familiar: Let's list our ten favorite episodes. Let's list our least-favorite episodes. Let's list our favorite galaxies. Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes. What Romulam would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why? Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians... and then let's do it again. --- Joshua Lyman

A few years later and I still laugh out loud thinking about that quote...


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:10 am 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6231
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Sometimes backwards Nick Danger needs an interpreter. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to beg him for intepretation because no one else can manage it. ;)

However, here's a more full quote to help us along the way:

Josh Lyman, fictional character of West Wing wrote:
I'm a fan. I'm a sports fan. I'm a music fan. And I'm a Star Trek fan. All of them. But here's what I don't do. . . . Let's list our ten favorite episodes.Let's list our least favorite episodes. Let's list our favorite galaxies. Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes. What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why? Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians and then let's do it again. --- That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish. --- And I don't have a problem with that except that you can't bring your hobbies into work, okay. . . . Except on Star Trek holidays.

I've bolded the point I think Nick is hoping we'll take away from his post. I'm just trying to make it easy on Nick, folks.

That, and I happen to be a Star Trek fan AND a Cyan/Myst/Uru fan AND a MagiQuest fan AND an Open Uru fan.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: Israel
I didn't really got your point, kcin. Are you saying that we are just around here, talking about things even though we don't really have anything real to play? well, if there's anyway you can help uru come faster, I'll be glad to see it. But what else can we do? we wait for uru. It may come, it may not. But we wait to see what happens. Not a lot to do.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 1451
Location: The Cleft of the Rock of Ages
The stranger wrote:
Not a lot to do.

Want some pop corn? :)

_________________
Ethan the Bahro Boy - MO:ULagain KI# 4988
---Blessed are those who laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused---
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 453 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: