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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:37 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:48 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:26 am 
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Last edited by Rudolfson on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:04 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:46 pm 
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mszv, you totally don't get it :roll: You condemn Cyan for not being capable of running their own game, surely you must have a better idea then. What are YOU going to do with Open Source? Or are you just going to make another 1700 posts complaining about Cyan and everything they did WRONG? You always talk about "being a good fan" vs "being a bad fan", in fact we have no opinion on the matter. You can be anything you like. However, it is cheap and easy to constantly complain and post self fulfilling prophesies, but what are you going to do to IMPROVE the situation?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Negative posts… those are what get issues discussed and problems solved. Posting glowing praise and listing the wonderful points of Uru and Cyan is nice but what does it accomplish?

Negative is not well defined here. So, it is hard to say Murry is right or wrong about nature of mszv posts. But looking at the first page of (15) (the fair minded reader should click and check it out) I would have to disagree with Murray. I only see one negative post (my idea of negative) from Murray in his first 15 and that is directed at mszv. Claiming that mszv made 1700 posts complaining about Cyan is over the top and certainly he did not get to ‘everything’ they did wrong… If one really wants to read negative (as I think Murray means it) in regard to Cyan for perspective, I can recommend a couple of forums and some posters. One should also note some of the most Cyan …negative… posters are big contributors to Uru and open source.

Asking mszv what he is going to do about helping Uru/MOOS/whatever is a good question for us all. I’ve posted where my interests are in regard to MOOS, what I have done to explore them and what I am waiting on and what I’m doing while I wait.

I can’t blame mszv for not trusting Cyan to run the game servers. The wanting to control content comment could be confusing to many and I think it is ambiguous. Especially if one did not watch the video. Every Uru server Cyan has run has shutdown. UU servers closed at Cyan’s …request. So, that one would become gun-shy and ask do you trust Cyan to run the server is not a condemnation or put down unless one wants to take it that way. Not wanting to be restricted to Cyan control of content is a desire shared by many.

Attacking mszv or any forum member rather than the points of their post is counterproductive and far more negative than debating the merits of the issue.

Rand was speaking off the cuff. It was not a planned speech, afaik. So, I think mszv wants more from the words than Rand put in. It annoys him that the words are somewhat ambiguous. In context Rand wanting to run the servers and control content came across to me as a desire not the plan, which the later seems to be what mszv has taken away.

While Cyan has said there will be limits on what we can do with characters and content created by Cyan, how much of the fan created stuff do we want Cyan controlling? I actually think the fans will do a better control job than Cyan and have a good deal of compassion for new age writers. So, I prefer fans controlling the fan content. That is not condemning Cyan. That is putting up fans. But one can look at it the other way around.

I too am shy of Cyan running the servers, unless it is in addition to fan run servers. I did not get that Rand was excluding those fan run servers. I was not even positive he meant a game server and thought about several possibilities. But several others seem to have gotten that it would exclude fan run game servers. So, Rand could have been clearer. But, again it was impromptu.

We will know when they do or announce something.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:53 pm 
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The amount of combined vitriol and ignorance being thrown around here is terrifying. This community, once large and thriving, has dwindled away due to a lack of content and interest, and whenever a new person does stumble in looking for information, they walk right into the middle of a war between people who want to keep Uru alive by actually DOING SOMETHING WITH IT, the people who want to keep Uru alive by RESPECTFULLY LEAVING IT ALONE, and the people who want to keep Uru alive by TELLING EVERYONE TO FORGET ABOUT URU AND PLAY ANOTHER GAME, BECAUSE IT'S JUST LIKE URU, BUT BETTER!

OBJECTION!

We are ALL dancing around on more grey area than there is sand in Minkata, and no matter HOW MORALLY UPRIGHT YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE, there is NO ROOM in this tiny shred of people that remains for this INSANITY.

The last few days, every time I check these forums I just give up, walk away, and don't even CARE about updating the IIMY topic, because sooner or later, someone will find a way to declare that IT IS KILLING URU. I'm going to lay myself bare here and let you all just take your shots at me after the fact.

Drizzle
Drizzle is incredible. It's added flavor, content, and ease of use to a lonely world that we drained of content years ago. Without it, the only options that would be available to most for Uru would be the worn out slice of content that we got back in 2003 and 2004. It's made it easy for people to access fan written ages, as well as doing some light shuffling around of original content, and returning MOUL and adding Myst V stuff for people who already played those games anyway. It's also a pleasant alternative from "OMG ROGUE SHARDS, THOSE ARE KILLING URU!"

Should ABM, To D'ni, TPotS, MOUL and Myst V files be provided to anyone who's never owned them? No, that's just outright stealing. Should MOUL files be provided to people who played MOUL regularly from launch to closure and then deleted them? You figure that out.

Without Drizzle, pretty much all that most people with an interest in Uru would have to do is come to the forums, complain about Uru not being MORE, Open, on Second Life yet and bicker about how wrong everyone else is.

Rogue Shards
"Rogue Shards" are often referred to as the "SOME" we get before the "MORE". They're pretty cool, because most of them allow for what's essentially Until Uru again... no new content, except for some fun screwing around on the admin side. But some of them also allow access to fan ages, allowing for multiplayer quality assurance and testing, which given how important fan made content will be in MORE/Open seems like a pretty great thing too. Besides that, when MORE or Open were to happen, anyone who wouldn't happily pay a fee to move to the "real deal" PROBABLY isn't someone who would have bothered to pay in the first place.

Should "Rogue Shards" provide free access to ABM/Whatever files freely to anyone? No. That's just theft again. But when people who already have the content are allowed to play together, that seems like a step forward from where we are now.

I have a great deal of respect for CrisGer, because he stands up for what he believes in, so this is NOT a shot at him. But once in the IIMY thread, when there was a flurry of fighting going around in regards to shards, he posted a few pictures of his avatar standing in various places in Uru, and asked "Do we really want to risk losing this?" to which I responded with "I see your lonely explorer in various places, and raise you pictures of crowds of people having fun together." and posted some pictures of some of the larger gatherings in MOUL. Because that's the very definition of Uru. People gathering together to celebrate a culture that they all enjoy and support.

Second Life/Blue Mars/There/Flavor of the Year
These all SUCK so far. This is only applicable to my experience in Second Life and There, but as well implemented games and worlds? They're pretty awful. I love the concepts behind this "everyone builds it themselves" games, it's been something I've wanted since I was a little kid. There's nothing wrong with these worlds either, since they provide alternate places to gather and enjoy each other's company. That's why I originally went to Second Life, to spend time with people I'd not be able to see in Uru anymore. Same with There.

No, the reason I make this declaration of SUCK is because of the growing number of people who feel as though they've learned some HUGE SECRET OF SUCCESS from these games and the way the graphics and physics engines work, as well as the programming languages provided. You can learn some basics of programming from Second Life... the stuff they make there is well beyond my limited knowledge of program code... but then when huge DECLARATIONS OF TRUTH appear about how THIS GREAT IDEA will REVOLUTIONIZE URU, it just leaves things in a state of shock and confusion, as to why you'd want to make the already slow and broke Uru run any worse than it already tends to.

But you know what? Those games still have their place. They still do amazing things, and let people play together as a group again. Just don't raise them up to be anything amazing, when they tend to be far below industry standards. Maybe Blue Mars will change that, there seems to be a lot of potential there.

So what's the point of all this? IT'S ALL GREY. ALL OF IT. We all have to make our own decisions at this point, until Cyan provides a way to do things "right", and given their current situation, that COULD be NEVER. I certainly HOPE that something happens, you should know at this point that I'm still clinging onto that. But right now, our alternatives are largely "Hey, let's do something with Uru" or "Hey, let's complain about Uru".

There's no right to jump on mszv, she's got plenty of reason at this point to doubt Cyan's ability to make MORE happen. Sophia and Murray shouldn't be attacked for their support of Cyan, either, because despite constant fumbles with Uru and Cosmic Osmo: Hex Isle, they're built a lot for us successfully.

If we break this community up any further, instead of holding together for people to rejoin us so we can grow again, there's going to be so few of us, that people will come back, see empty spaces, and leave again. Everyone here loves Myst and Uru, just in different ways... so let's try to focus on that main part. And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Well put Vid, you have expressed what I had been thinking of these threads and posts but was unsure how to put it into words.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:03 pm 
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My post was longer than yours, vid - measured vertically.

:P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:08 pm 
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JWP, oh come on, save it for the men's room! :)

Besides, you stuffed yours with quote text! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Don't make me whip out my post count on you, vid. I'm not afraid to use it.

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