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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:55 pm 
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semplerfi wrote:
We are not allowed to talk about the changes needed to get to that goal. When anyone tries the threads and or posts are deleted. :(

Only here among all the places in the world, and people can find, and have found, other ways to help Cyan and prepare themselves for open source without stopping their private work.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:23 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
semplerfi wrote:
We are not allowed to talk about the changes needed to get to that goal. When anyone tries the threads and or posts are deleted. :(

Only here among all the places in the world >>>>> snip

Here is the only place these issues can be solved because this is where they originate. No talking about it anywhere else is going to affect and or change anything here. The change has to come from here.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:59 pm 
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I wish open source were here too. Then terms like 'hacks' would be instantly transformed into 'patches' and people who were 'hackers' transformed into respected "developers.'

But, well, you can curse, shake your fist at the sky (or the mods, or Cyan) or you can do something else. I'm doing something else. It helps the blood pressure. ;) Frankly, there's more to life than allow oneself to feel bad when here. That hands over too much control to others.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:21 pm 
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I am not talking about open source not being here. Legally, right now, that is a no brainer. :P

Good advice, for those that need it. :wink:

For your information I do not curse, and or shake my fists at the sky or anything else, I do not have high blood pressure, I do not feel bad and lastly I give my power away to no one.

If anything, I am disappointed with this forum and how it affects the community. This does not mean I will walk away disappointed, this means I have a challenge and I will keep at it till something is done about it...

URU, Semper Fidelis...

[For those that do not know: 'Semper Fidelis' is the United States Marine Corps' motto "Always Faithful" And yes I am a former Marine.]


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:37 pm 
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I have a challenge and I will keep at it till something is done about it...


All in our own way :- )

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:18 am 
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I’m not going to talk about loyalty, or lack of it, nor about legalities. We all know that Uru is Cyan property, and that they have all the right to be careful with their brainchild. I want to make a simple statement: Uru is the product of a specific group of people, under a specific creative leadership.
I can like this product more or less, but this fact remains. I can think to be able to modify, expand or better it, but the instant I change it, it will be no more Uru. It’s the above-mentioned people and creative leadership that make all the difference.
Of course, is entirely possible to make a new game, a new storyline and create a new fictional universe that is better than Uru. But it’ll be another game, another work of art. I cannot write a Stephen King’s novel (just to say a name), only another novel, worse, better or the equal in quality, but different.

I’m not saying that fan-age don’t have merit. I’m working on one, and it’s a very positive learning experience. As JWPlatt wrote, doing something helps. If, or when, open source will be released, we’ll surely see and play many of those fan-ages, but they’re will not be Uru. They will be my or yours work, my or your dream and vision, but not Uru. Some of that stuff could conceivably become Uru, but only if Cyan is involved in the process, and with the guidance of the above-mentioned creative leadership.

For this reason, I hope that Cyan will be able to maintain control over the whole operation. The strictest this control will be, the better for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:02 am 
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Clat said: If, or when, open source will be released, we’ll surely see and play many of those fan-ages, but they’re will not be Uru. They will be my or yours work, my or your dream and vision, but not Uru.


No offense, but this comment makes no sense. User created ages within the open source Uru are Uru. Uru is not just a game it is a community. The creative and collaborative efforts of all members of that community are Uru. I think that you are looking at Uru with tunnel vision and are not seeing just how much it encompasses. A part of Uru going open source is for users to create and add their own content and to share and experience that content with others in the community. In doing this the game does not become something that is not Uru. Try to look at it like this, all fans of Uru are D'ni citizens. Those citizens are involved in their respective guilds. So naturally there will be writers, maintainers and so on. Cyan will more or less be slipping into the guild masters roles, taking a back seat and watching the new guild members steer Uru forward. This doesn't change Uru, if anything it enhances and keeps it alive.

I look forward to an Open Source Uru, with the community in control. It is there I think Uru will achieve and follow its destiny so that fans truly become D'ni citizens and can take part in that society and help it to flourish. After all wasn't Uru created to allow myst fans to enmesh themselves further into D'ni history and culture, and as results become members of that community itself.

Please feel free to correct me if I misunderstand the intent and meaning in your statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:32 pm 
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I think it depends on what you consider Uru. In the most conservative of terms, Uru is what Clat is talking about. Strictly Cyan's Ages only those made by Cyan. The looser definition is what I consider Uru, a community, a set of common personality traits. I don't agree with the more conservative definition because Uru wasn't made by JUST one group of people, etc. Teledahn was made by one set of people. Some of those people worked on Kadish, but one or two may have been working on Kemo or didn't put the same effort into one project that they did on another.

Even ignoring that, the general community's sense of what Uru is changed back in Until Uru. It rapidly changed to survival, people being able to host their own servers and keep the candle burning. There are groups of people, like myself, who have never experienced an Uru before UU. Depending on where you went in UU, there could be non-canon things going on thanks to the AdminKI (the lake turning red, shroomie flying over the docks, etc.). This changed Uru for a lot of people, and was the norm for people like myself who came to Uru during UU. Uru was no longer "Myst Online", but a gathering place. We were there, for the most part, to enjoy Cyan's Ages, but also to enjoy the company of our friends.

I look forward to a diverse Uru. A Cyan shard/server for those who want that, a crazy shard for those who want that, personal shards, etc. I would like to see a per-Age payment system in which Cyan would produce maybe an Age a year and have explorers pay a fee to download it, after which they could play it on any shard. I would like to see fans able to submit Ages to ALL the shards for approval (each with varying requirements). I think when you give this community's diverse personalities room, we work together well.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Dragonfetch wrote

... User created ages within the open source Uru are Uru. Uru is not just a game it is a community. The creative and collaborative efforts of all members of that community are Uru...
I look forward to an Open Source Uru, with the community in control...





We are talking of different things. Community is a beautiful thing, but has nothing to do with creativity, which is an individual quality. Even in the case of teamwork, like movies or like Uru ages production, there is always a form of creative direction. In the case of Uru, we know well who this director was. Fan age will be thought and directed by other people. Those people will try to translate in reality (a digital reality) their idea of Uru game and D’ni universe.

I’m not saying that the result will be poor or inferior to Cyan original ages. I’m saying that it will be different. No amount of words and good will about community virtues will change that fact.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:43 pm 
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I actually agree with Clat. Cyan was the original creator of Uru and thus their vision and perspective of D'ni should be considered "most accurate". Anything they make will look and feel, by default, more authentically D'ni than anything we can ever create on our own. We can come close by imitation-- but ultimately we all don't quite understand D'ni or even the Myst genre as a whole in the same way that Cyan does.

Just look at the differences between Myst, Riven, and Myst III and IV. Myst III and IV were created by outside developers and if you're familiar enough with the original games, the stylistic differences are noticeable. That is not to say they are "less authentic" necessarily, but that they are simply different because they were created by different people with a different perspective on what Myst is and should be. A similar thing will happen with fan-created Ages and areas of D'ni. Some will be closer in design to Cyan's work, and some will be way off the mark. The ones that are more congruous with existing Cyan models will be considered the most 'realistic' by the community.

I have already seen some versions of what Age-builders think is "D'ni". Some are more convincing than others. Some don't seem D'ni at all, and this may be due in part to modeling skills. What it comes down to is this: creative direction can certainly help overcome the differences between fan work and Cyan work, if the goal is to be congruous; but there is no eliminating the differences altogether. They will always exist.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:41 am 
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Clat said...and said very very well....:

Quote:
I’m not going to talk about loyalty, or lack of it, nor about legalities. We all know that Uru is Cyan property, and that they have all the right to be careful with their brainchild. I want to make a simple statement: Uru is the product of a specific group of people, under a specific creative leadership.
I can like this product more or less, but this fact remains. I can think to be able to modify, expand or better it, but the instant I change it, it will be no more Uru. It’s the above-mentioned people and creative leadership that make all the difference.
Of course, is entirely possible to make a new game, a new storyline and create a new fictional universe that is better than Uru. But it’ll be another game, another work of art. I cannot write a Stephen King’s novel (just to say a name), only another novel, worse, better or the equal in quality, but different.

I’m not saying that fan-age don’t have merit. I’m working on one, and it’s a very positive learning experience. As JWPlatt wrote, doing something helps. If, or when, open source will be released, we’ll surely see and play many of those fan-ages, but they’re will not be Uru. They will be my or yours work, my or your dream and vision, but not Uru. Some of that stuff could conceivably become Uru, but only if Cyan is involved in the process, and with the guidance of the above-mentioned creative leadership.

For this reason, I hope that Cyan will be able to maintain control over the whole operation. The strictest this control will be, the better for me.


wonderfully well put.

If one studies Rand's very candid and open and compassionate Q and A at Mysterium this year, he says clearly that Cyan will keep control, will run the main servers, and will work to add more content in the future, possibly as add on Ages and plug ins in line with the main story line that he says they have a LOT of to share with us and that he thinks we will enjoy. I know i will, and I think most of us will...and I am waiting happily and patiently for the return of the Cavern when they have the time and resources to do what they promise to do, let us Return Home.

:)
Shorah and wonderful post Clat. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:24 am 
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What do you mean by "it will work"? how will it "work"? I past, sponsered Uru didn't work, but this one will?

I don't care if Cyan Worlds will open a server. I would like that, really. But don't stop us. At least give *some* of us the code, I don't know how. But give us the freedom to create alternatives, and we will see which one works the best.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:59 am 
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The stranger wrote:
What do you mean by "it will work"? how will it "work"? I past, sponsered Uru didn't work, but this one will?

I don't care if Cyan Worlds will open a server. I would like that, really. But don't stop us. At least give *some* of us the code, I don't know how. But give us the freedom to create alternatives, and we will see which one works the best.




Of whom are you talking when you say: “don’t stop us”? The community? My feeling, looking at various forums is that this community shares a love for Uru, but can hardly be defined as unanimous.

Of whom are you talking when you say: “At least *some* of us”? Do you mean the Guilds? Selected people? And how they should be selected?

Again, of whom are you talking when you say: “We will see which one work the best”? And what if “we” disagree?

I don’t want to polemize, but I think that answering these questions is essential to understand your vision.

As for me, I don’t need that many explanations. I firmly believe that all decisions belong to Cyan.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:10 pm 
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I'm given up interpreting what Rand Miller says, so unclear. I'm still mulling over the odd use of the word of "compassionate" from a previous post. I've generally heard the term used to describe reaction to people who are sick or in some sort of duress. I don't need "compassion" from Rand Miller (eek!) - would just like open source Uru to happen. A person can still hope that we get to legally run our own servers, do the open source thing, all that.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:53 pm 
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mszv wrote:
I'm given up interpreting what Rand Miller says, so unclear. I'm still mulling over the odd use of the word of "compassionate" from a previous post. I've generally heard the term used to describe reaction to people who are sick or in some sort of duress. I don't need "compassion" from Rand Miller (eek!) - would just like open source Uru to happen. A person can still hope that we get to legally run our own servers, do the open source thing, all that.


This may be slightly off-topic, but that weird use of the word "compassionate" is what I have referred to in the past when talking about obsessive fan loyalty about this game. People are sometimes utterly creepy in their devotion and I think it scares people off. Rand's comment are often hard to pin exact meaning to, especially when they get reproduced as words on a screen on a forum. That combined with the community's propensity to over-examine everything (we would never have beaten Riven otherwise) makes for some rather odd conclusions.

Based on what Rand has said in the past and what he is saying now, it seems like now that the company is in a less desperate situation, they are more inclined to rethink the idea of just tossing the game to the GoW and GoMa. It's obvious they want some level of control over it and that's perfectly fine-- frankly I'd prefer it that way-- but it is rather different from the original tone they set when they announced OpenUru. And now we're left wondering what they heck they have in mind.

I'm already wondering how Cyan plans to deal with 'controlling' UCC in the game, and what their criteria will be for what makes it in and what doesn't. It's going to be interesting, to say the least.

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