Open Source Fears

Whilyam · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am **Posts:** 4134

tahgayrahl wrote:

This sure seems like a really contentious issue but I, seeing all this as pretty much an outsider, am kind of confused about what people are really concerned about. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning what would happen when the source is released:

1) We'd have a central, official Cyan shard that Cyan can do their own thing with. We already have this part now with the launch of MOULagain.

2) Other shards for fans to do with what they wish. Whether that be just using the Cyan content, adding their own content, or retooling the game from the bottom up into something completely different.

This way there's something available for everyone. Now maybe I'm completely crazy, but I don't really see what's so contentious about this.

Because I think that Cyan shard should be as open as possible with fan shards doing their own thing (including canon-only content, etc) because I think, since Cyan's shard is most visible, it needs to have the greatest diversity.

DocOlanA · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:52 pm

Oh, for crying out loud, people! That's NOT what I meant and you know it.

It's like arguing American politics in here. I'm not running a witch hunt. Yes, there are other people running hacks of Uru that have fan ages, but none of those have the numbers or support of MOULa. My question to Tweek was legitimate, because frankly I respect his opinion. I've never seen Cyan be anything other than an exceptional company that tries to work with its fans, but I haven't seen everything. It was a question.

Oh no, but it's so much easier to pretend that Doc is part of the Spetsnaz, isn't it? Lots easier than actually trying to reach some sort of compromise on this issue instead of trumpeting your perfect utopia of complete fan dominance where somehow that doesn't become a huge fetid pile like every other unmoderated fan repository on the internet.

Yes. I'm angry. Because frankly I expected better than name-calling from the Uru community.

Paradox · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:53 pm

DocOlanA wrote:

Tweek wrote:

DocOlanA wrote:

Are you agreeing with those in the fanbase who feel they have been treated poorly by Cyan, Tweek? Are you one of them?

I'm not trying to be accusative, I really want to know, because it surprises me that someone listed as a Cyan employee would say that.

Erm no, I was simply saying that there are people who do feel that way, sometimes a box is just a box.

Sure. There are also people who think Myst was horribly boring and killed adventure gaming. But we're talking about reality here, or at least trying to.

So in summary: I reject your reality and substitute my own.

DocOlanA · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:56 pm

Paradox wrote:

So in summary: I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Your reality, personally? Yes, but only after overwhelming evidence that it is not, in fact, real.

Science.

Tweek · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am **Posts:** 2633

DocOlanA wrote:

Tweek wrote:

DocOlanA wrote:

Are you agreeing with those in the fanbase who feel they have been treated poorly by Cyan, Tweek? Are you one of them?

I'm not trying to be accusative, I really want to know, because it surprises me that someone listed as a Cyan employee would say that.

Erm no, I was simply saying that there are people who do feel that way, sometimes a box is just a box.

Sure. There are also people who think Myst was horribly boring and killed adventure gaming. But we're talking about reality here, or at least trying to.

This is an argument how? I'm pretty sure I was talking about reality, here's a suggestion, go PM dustin, ask him how he feels about Cyan and how he feels they've treated the community...pretty sure that falls into reality..

Zardoz · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:02 pm

I'll probably get a bonk over the head from Tweek for mentioning this, but I would also put the liaisons into the category of people treated poorly by Cyan. There was no IC reason or justification for how badly Cyan (as opposed to the DRC) managed the entire liaison fiasco. Certain members of the community (raises hand) didn't help, either, but I will always take that experience as equally important for assessing Cyan's ability to interact with its fan base.

tahgayrahl · **Joined:** Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:59 am **Posts:** 27

Whilyam wrote:

Because I think that Cyan shard should be as open as possible with fan shards doing their own thing (including canon-only content, etc) because I think, since Cyan's shard is most visible, it needs to have the greatest diversity.

Ah, ok. Well I'd personally agree with that, if by "as possible" you mean based on Cyan criteria of canonicity and quality. Ideally It'd be cool to see Cyan working on a one-to-one, case by case basis with creators so both parties can collaborate on the story-telling together. From the stuff I've seen from you, Tweek and a few others I have no concern over whether fan content would seem out of place on the Cyan server

Maybe all you guys need to do is start a thread with screenshots of what you've been getting up to to allay some of these fears?

Zander_the_Heretic · **Joined:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am **Posts:** 278

DocOlanA wrote:

Oh no, but it's so much easier to pretend that Doc is part of the Spetsnaz, isn't it? Lots easier than actually trying to reach some sort of compromise

Compromise? I don't remember you taking one step towards compromise in your insistence that only Cyan can make Uru or say what Uru is. I and others have been pushing for compromise in every thread where this has blown up, and you've basically ignored everything we said unless you could pick it up and use it to restate your thesis.

Compromise is accepting that the other person has a point. If you can do that, then so can everyone else. It's not about rejecting their reality, on any evidence whatsoever, because your evidence will of course support your reality, just as their evidence supports theirs. That's how it works, in the macrocosmic world that is about people and not particles.

Compromise is a saw with two handles. If you don't push with yours, there's no point the other guy pulling on his.

Let Cyan defend themselves for a while. You've done enough, and it seems to be starting not to be fun. This is the time to stop.

Marcus Wheeler · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:09 pm

Alright, I'm gunna jump out of the shadows and give my opinion of where this conversation has turned.

1) Stop using over-exaggerated words (e.g. Anarchist, Maoist China, anti-Cyan, witch hunt, etc.). They serve no purpose other than to be mis-interpreted.

2) Canon is in the eyes of the beholder, unless Cyan proves it wrong. That is my stance, and (personal opinion incoming) the most viable one to work with. Trap books were canon until Cyan sort of retconned that. The ability for linking books to travel with you? Impossible until Yeesha.

Honestly, Cyan has, if nothing else, the power to say what is "true" or "false" in terms of their own canon. Users are going to come up with their own "alternatives" to how the story could go, but whether or not it is true in the sense of being canon comes down to Cyan's ultimate word. If you want to believe one thing over another in terms of what is canon, you're entitled to that. Even concerning Cyan-released information, should you choose. Stop impressing that one thing "has to be" and others "can't," when it is quite possible for things to change when Uru goes OS and if Cyan starts putting more of their own content and story into the game.

3) Can we get back to the "discussion" part of this forum? It has sort of de-volved into a fit of mis-interpretation and yelling that does nothing other than to get people's tempers heated. Let's just drop the current argument and go back to the original points made at the start of all this?

In my personal experience, if you have a question with one particular user, PM them. The minute you make bold statements one way or another in a place where anyone can respond, you open yourself up to criticism and attention you may or may not want.

Mac_Fife · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:09 pm

Mod Note: Over the past three pages people seem to have been forgetting what the Original Post was about and have started plumbing the depths of personal attacks and accusations. That is not acceptable on these forums; please try to stay on topic folks.

Rusty_Russell · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:33 pm

Quote:

We realize that this could turn Uru Live into the “wild west” and lead to many fractured and diverse Myst Online servers.

Doc, you're missing the point. Open Source with Cyan's baby could do anything. If Cyan wasn't prepared to take that risk, we may or may not have had MORE (closed source).

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:59 pm

Rusty_Russell wrote:

Quote:

We realize that this could turn Uru Live into the “wild west” and lead to many fractured and diverse Myst Online servers.

Doc, you're missing the point. Open Source with Cyan's baby could do anything. If Cyan wasn't prepared to take that risk, we may or may not have had MORE (closed source).

Word to the wise... DNFTT.

Frisky Badger · **Joined:** Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:48 pm **Posts:** 746

Paradox wrote:

So in summary: I reject your reality and substitute my own.

I didn't know Mythbusters were into Myst.

IanWatson · **Posted:** Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:31 pm

Frisky Badger wrote:

I didn't know Mythbusters were into Myst.

From this thread:

DocOlanA · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:18 am

Zander_the_Heretic wrote:

Compromise? I don't remember you taking one step towards compromise in your insistence that only Cyan can make Uru or say what Uru is.

Compromise is not the same thing as "saying exactly what you want me to say." I've offered a lot of compromises. Indeed, the only real thing I want is for Cyan to have final review of ages and materials that go into the main MOUL OS server. I mean, think about what I've said. A fan makes an age. They submit it, not to Cyan, but to the fan community. If that community likes it, then it goes for final review, which is nothing more than a review to ensure it doesn't violate canon. If it doesn't, it's in. Very simple process, very easy process.

Indeed, the only way I could compromise more is if I agreed with you entirely.

Open Source Fears

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