It is currently Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:53 pm

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:29 am
Posts: 267
Location: 9201, 604577, 1837
Due to the recent discussions about bots in Uru, I figured I'd get started on a topic here.

Many have suggested they don't mind 'bots, but would prefer that there be some way to easily distinguish them, visually. A standard appearance which tells explorers that the avatar with whom they're speaking isn't a real person.

Now, standardizing all possible bot avatars may seem rather limiting, but I think we can have our cake and eat it too.

Let's say that bots like OHBot are holographic Lattice interfaces recently re-discovered or re-activated. It's the easiest IC explanation, I think. A solution presents itself: if an avatar is flagged as a bot, it should appear semi-transparent and covered in static, like Yeesha's hologram in the Cleft.

This way, bot creators can customize their appearance but still have them look consistently different, signalling they're artificial in a manner obvious to anyone who has seen Yeesha in the Cleft.

Thoughts? Other suggestions?

_________________
Ian Watson
MOULa KI: 00115996

Eyen waxen
3: 7)$]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 388
Location: Tennessee
I think this would be good. Have bots be holographic recordings. We know the D'ni had similar things, so that works.

I'm not against bots. Ever since the IM bots in Majestic (not that anyone remembers Majestic) I've been a fan, and been endlessly fascinated as they've developed over the years into better representations of people. But they need to stay IC.

As noted in the other thread, you can't just put bots on ignore because people constantly play with them when they're around. So I think they should probably be restricted from the public IC areas (except for hoods.) In hoods, of course, set up the bots as you like. It's your hood.

_________________
DocOlanA
KI# 02117319

The Students of D'ni Knowledge!

Next SoDK Meeting: Sunday, March 28, 20:00 (8 PM) MST (10 PM EST, 2 AM GMT)
Subject: D'ni Law and Punishment
Moderator: Ahlehn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:58 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:00 am
Posts: 1669
Location: Lakewood, WA
DocOlanA wrote:
So I think they should probably be restricted from the public IC areas snip... .

Where are the public IC areas?

The last time I looked there were only public joint use IC & OOC areas.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:10 am
Posts: 372
I had posted a couple ideas about how he could integrate OHBot into the story in another thread, of course there are hundreds of ways to do it.

I like the hologram idea better than what I came up with though. :wink:

_________________
BAD is as good as BAD can be.

Visit our new site!

SOUP!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 pm
Posts: 115
Location: England
DocOlanA wrote:
As noted in the other thread, you can't just put bots on ignore because people constantly play with them when they're around. So I think they should probably be restricted from the public IC areas (except for hoods.) In hoods, of course, set up the bots as you like. It's your hood.

In public areas, they should follow the normal rules for IRC bots, i.e. only respond to private messages, and respond privately. IRC usually has an exception for stuff like @find so that you can find the bots in the first place; I don't know whether we would need that.

Also, having the chat window full of bot-chat would be less of an issue if there was some way to make the window larger. And if there was a way to ignore any message matching a given pattern regardless of the origin.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:32 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Posts: 2232
Location: Italy
Holograms are a nice idea; there are already projectors in the 'hoods, so it's not a stretch to believe they could be installed in other places too. Still, I'd keep that as an option among others - some puzzle/quest maker might want his bot to look like a laptop or a D'ni machine, and an NPC would be weird if it looked like a hologram.

'Strict' bots (as in, non NPCs) could also be tweaked so that they appear under "Devices" in the KI list, rather than Age players. Coupled with a different appearance, that would make it easier to find them and/or ignore them.

_________________
Atrus aka Nahvah aka Ian Pertwee aka too many darn names :D
KI# 52953


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:44 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 am
Posts: 2266
semplerfi wrote:
DocOlanA wrote:
So I think they should probably be restricted from the public IC areas snip... .

Where are the public IC areas?

The last time I looked there were only public joint use IC & OOC areas.


What semplerfi said -- there are no public IC areas. Now, you may want or not want bots in the city, but the city is not IC. Some players choose to play IC in the city, some don't. Player choice, always.

What I'd like is to know that an AI character or bot is an AI thing, in a clearly visible but not intrusive way. I'm open to different ways to do that.

_________________
mszv, amarez in Uru, other online games, never use mszv anymore, would like to change it
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 388
Location: Tennessee
I still maintain it's impossible not to be IC in the city, since the game was designed to be us in the city, and since the Myst games and books appear in game. Including, the way I've been playing it, Uru. And lots of people in the cavern play Uru (not me. I see no reason to electronically simulate what I actually do each day. But then I never really enjoyed playing "The Sims" either, so it's not like I'm the expert.)

But seriously. Because of the design of the game there are only two real ways to violate IC. The first is by talking about technical problems with the game, which is generally an exception because I (and I hope everyone) will help with technical problems. The second is because you're intentionally being a mean person/people and trying to spoil the experience for others, and why would you do that? Otherwise... you can talk about anything. Uru is us, in the real world. Heck, Sharper goes on and on about the Patriots. All IC means is that we're not mentioning the fact that Uru is a video game. And who runs around mentioning that they're playing a video game within the video game they're playing?

But yes, I meant the main cavern. Hoods I don't have too much of a problem with, though you should respect hoods whose members say they don't want bots around. But until we can come to an IC consensus on what bots are (D'ni holograms, Japanese robots, etc.,) and make their avatars accordingly (as I noted above), I know I'd prefer not to run into them in Ae'gura or K'veer.

_________________
DocOlanA
KI# 02117319

The Students of D'ni Knowledge!

Next SoDK Meeting: Sunday, March 28, 20:00 (8 PM) MST (10 PM EST, 2 AM GMT)
Subject: D'ni Law and Punishment
Moderator: Ahlehn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:43 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 am
Posts: 2266
Most of the people I know play as if the game was real and not real at the some time. It's a complicated, wonderful way to play. So they might talk about what they have seen in the game, talk about other things in their lives, and even talk about things such as their monitor, their interface, technical issues, textures, all that stuff. Yup, the people I've talked to sometimes talk about playing the game as a game. It's fluid. It's my preferrred style of play in any online world.

You can't impose a playing style -- well, I guess you could try, but do you think all of our players are going to listen?

I'd like bots in the city -- but it's not up to me. I'm happy to express my views, but If this is on a Cyan server, Cyan might have some guidelines on no bots in the city. On other servers, it might be different. The good news -- assuming we get open source and we get different servers, it will all work out in the end. I plan to go to a sever that has good groups of people and the most interesting stuff, also where my friends are playing.

_________________
mszv, amarez in Uru, other online games, never use mszv anymore, would like to change it
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:20 pm
Posts: 303
You could always explain it in a Red Dwarf hologram style. There, the holograms are projected by a "Light bee", a small device that floats around "inside" the hologram, projecting the image.

I'm sure a miniaturised imager (like the one in the Ki) combined with a small floating craft (A micro helicopter-type thing) could be used as explanation for how these "Holograms" are created and move around freely. And the "l'ight b'ee" would provide enough of a physical presence to be able to press and activate buttons and the like.

The only issue then is how a hologram "Links".

_________________
Avatar: Anaerin
Ki: 118686


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
If one can't tell its a bot when talking to it, why does it matter if you know?

If you can tell, then isn't it already pretty well marked?

Since the current bot is just an AV run by software, how is the MOULa/Open Uru software going to know to treat it differently?

If the server operator creates a special avatar class for bots, what happens if someone just signs up a bot, doesn't tell them, and just runs it?
8)
Are we going to implement Asimov's 3 laws of robotics? :shock:

:)

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:52 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:28 am
Posts: 1247
Having a standardized way of knowing a player is a bot is something I don't like. You've got things that fall into different categories.

There's bots that don't chat and perform functions alone. They'd be great under devices.

There's bots that chat to you but are meant to be known as bots. They'd be great with "Bot" in their name.

There's bots that chat to you and are not meant to be known as bots...and they shouldn't be identifiable as bots.They should act like humans and talk like humans. HOWEVER, there should be a command that can be given to them that is a requirement to identify themselves as a bot and list their owner's name and contact info should something go oddly awry. Something like "LIST IDENTIFICATION". bla bla bla.

_________________
Image
Click here to change my signature!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:43 am
Posts: 282
Thumbs up for the holographic bots idea! :D (at least for those that could, e.g., help newcomers)

Has anyone seen "I, Robot" (the movie)? It reminds me of the interactive hologram... "I'm sorry. My responses are limited. You have to ask the right questions."

_________________
Simone - KI#1001138
Please avoid drinking the lake water.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:28 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 160
Location: The Dream Sequencer
Sounds like an interesting idea, though I seem to remember that the static yeesha wasn't an overlaying effect but a separate avatar so it could be a pain to implement. Still seems like a decent idea.
p.s. Anaerin because of the Red Dwarf reference I now consider you to be awesome!

_________________
From the birthcry of our race,
to the mysteries of space.
I'm an educated man,
so you think I'd understand.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:47 am
Posts: 35
[spoiler]
OHB wrote:
Having a standardized way of knowing a player is a bot is something I don't like. You've got things that fall into different categories.

There's bots that don't chat and perform functions alone. They'd be great under devices.

There's bots that chat to you but are meant to be known as bots. They'd be great with "Bot" in their name.

There's bots that chat to you and are not meant to be known as bots...and they shouldn't be identifiable as bots.They should act like humans and talk like humans. HOWEVER, there should be a command that can be given to them that is a requirement to identify themselves as a bot and list their owner's name and contact info should something go oddly awry. Something like "LIST IDENTIFICATION". bla bla bla.
[/spoiler]

I agree with OHB on this topic.

_________________
KI# 00643644
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: