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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:22 pm 
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This discussion was split off from the thread Updated support information in the Information and Resource Center Forum (read only)
ireen, Jan 10th 07, 23:20 GMT+1

_______________________________________

woooowwww..... :shock: :shock: :shock:

That's a tough call, and I know many people will be affected. Out of curiousity, can you outline some of the major considerations behind that decision? I'm sure a lot of people will be put out by this, perhaps an explanaition (however short) would help...

~Rils


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:26 pm 
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It would also be nice to know if the code specific to W2k will be actively removed, or passively left static so that Uru Live might still work on W2k for a time, albeit unsupported.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:43 pm 
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It's an usual practice, when an OS is discontinued, to stop your games from officially supporting it. That doesn't mean that it won't work (I got several programs working on Win98 that do not support it) or that Cyan won't make the odd bugfix or two for Win2K users if time permits it; it's just that, if you have Win2k and Uru doesn't work, Cyan isn't obliged to go and fix Microsoft leftover's bugs to make it work for you. It's a tough call, but an almost mandatory one in the business.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:48 pm 
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lbell,

I (and I am sure others, especially beta testers on Win2K) would appreciate some clarification of your carefully worded statement.

You indicated that there were "a number of other issues" behind this decision. My questions are directed at understanding those other issues better.

By "no longer supported", do you mean that it won't run, or that you simply cannot promise resolutions for some Win2K-specific issues (some parts of the game may malfunction on Win2K and no fixes will be provided)? Can you offer any insight into what problems people running Win2K might face as a result of this decision, if they are not prevented from running the game altogether?

Last, but not least, with the dropping of Win2K support, I think it is important to ask: Has Cyan's position on Vista support changed, or can share any details of your future plans for supporting it?

Thanks in advance for your time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:49 pm 
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ummm- MS is still supporting W2K until the summer of 2007


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Actually...

Windows 2000 moved from mainstream support to "extended" support on June 30, 2005. Extended support lasts until June 30, 2010.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/se ... pport.mspx

I have no idea where pradfah obtained a "2007" date, nor where Cyan came up with "Microsoft has recently dropped support for Windows 2000", as neither is true.

Now... support for Windows XP SP1 ended on October 10, and there is no "extended support" for it. All support for Windows XP now applies only to Service Pack 2.

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean19

So really... I'm rather confused to see Cyan ending support for Windows 2000, but saying nothing about XP SP1, which is where Microsoft is really ending support. That is why I've asked for a clarification regarding the "other issues" that precipitated this decision.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:43 pm 
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Marten wrote:
I have no idea where pradfah obtained a "2007" date


Software updates will be provided through Microsoft Update / Windows Update / Automatic Updates until mid-2007.

Quote:
, nor where Cyan came up with "Microsoft has recently dropped support for Windows 2000", as neither is true.


Indeed, Cyan is completely wrong on this. I don't know where they have this idea from.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:22 pm 
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This really put a damper of my day, as I'm sure it did for many of my fellow diehard 2000 users. But instead of whining and complaining I will concede that it has actually come to a time where the number of 2000 users (regretably) doesn't justify continuation of support.

However I still would appreciate if Cyan answered a few crucial questions(many of which have already been posted here)

1. Is Cyan completely disabling code for 2000 or simply no longer fixing any bugs which arise?

2. Is Beta currently functional(with some bugs) on 2000, or are the compatibility issues so serious Uru does not run?

3. What is the official status of Vista support?

I'm just glad I hesitated a couple days before signing up for the year-long subscription-that would have been money down the drain.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:25 pm 
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Personally I dont 100% trust things that Cyan says. First I think the whole beta testing thing is messed up and they take only who they want. Second I think all they mean by this is that if it works for you on Win 2000 great, then if it doesn't they aren't going to look at bugs for Win 2000. For example sometimes Tomb Raider 3 woked for me when I had Win 2000, and sometimes it didn't; don't know why. However Tomb Raider 3 works fine on Win XP.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:27 pm 
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chucker wrote:
Software updates will be provided through Microsoft Update / Windows Update / Automatic Updates until mid-2007.


Just because I am innately curious, can you provide a link to where this detail is documented? Everything I found says extended support is June 2005 to June 2010. I've looked on Microsoft's website and cannot find an announcement stating that software updates will end in 2007. It sounds strange that "extended support" would mean 2 years of software updates, and 3 years of... I don't know... emotional support, perhaps? :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Marten wrote:
chucker wrote:
Software updates will be provided through Microsoft Update / Windows Update / Automatic Updates until mid-2007.


Just because I am innately curious, can you provide a link to where this detail is documented? Everything I found says extended support is June 2005 to June 2010. I've looked on Microsoft's website and cannot find an announcement stating that software updates will end in 2007. It sounds strange that "extended support" would mean 2 years of software updates, and 3 years of... I don't know... emotional support, perhaps? :lol:


I can't find an English source for the 2007 expiry, not that it has any real relevance to Uru Live anyway. If Cyan wants to connect their dropping of support to Microsoft's dropping of support, they'll have to go either by the standard support expiry, which happened well over a year ago, or by extended support, which won't happen for at least another four years, and is quite likely to be extended yet again.

That said, those remaining 3 years are for enterprise support contacts, updating the knowledge base, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:38 pm 
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chucker: Agreed!

I wouldn't call last year's standard support conclusion "recent", but I suppose we'll all have to hope and wait for a clarification from Cyan.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Just a quick clarification on what 'extended support' means in thje context of Win 2000. As of the end of 'normal' support no enhancements or bug fixes are provided publically. Extended support is a paid for service for developers and business all fixes apart from security are paid for on a fix by fix basis.

My take on the Cyan announcement is that:

1. They maybe aware of a change in MS position on Win 2000 support thats not been made public.

2. Either PhysX or the new sound software (can't remeber the name for the minute) has a problem with Win 2000 that it would not be cost effective to resolve given the O/S is no longer supported by MS for consumers

3. There are some specific game bugs related to Win 2000 which are not cost effective to resolve.

I think Cyan are showing due diligence by announcing this at the earliest opportunity.

My best guess is that Uru Live will still probably run on Win 2000 but their maybe driver problems. So basically try it at your own risk. I'm sure Cyan will have no problems with people providing peer to peer support if they are trying to run the game on this OS just that officially they will not provide any support.

M<arten you not comparing like with like when you talk about SP 1 and 2 for XP. All the fixes in SP1 are in SP2, so why would MS want to support it separately, yes I know there where some issues when SP2 was first released but to best of my knowledge they are resolved know. And in any case as far as Support Packs are concerned support is normally withdrawn once they are superced.

J'ffrey I dont understand your comment about the beta being messed up, how would you know. I'm assuming that since your objecting to the fact that Cyan only take who they want you not part of it. My answer to Cyan only taking who they want is this, its there game and there beta thats there privilledge. But I don't think its true, Cyan are on record saying people are being admitted to Beta in the order they signed up, until someone can show me evidence to contary I believe them.

Bottom line to this is this a fact of life support for O/S's get dropped. In this case we are talking something that was always a niche O/S mainly used by business with a relatively small consumer install base. So I'm not surprised Cyam have decided not to support it just that they hadn't done it earlier. My real concern is the position of support for Vista, we are weeks away from an announcement of a launch date. By next summer if you buy a new PC off the shelf its going to be loaded with Vista. I would personally be much happier now Vista is at RC2 stage if it was officially added to the O/S's being supported so that those of us running RC2 can start officially filing bug reports for it. I would just hate to find next summer that there is a problem running on Vista when the game has got into its stride, is getting rave reviews but anyone with a new comp has problems playing due to insufficient early testing.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Please note that Lbell's edit was after Darkstar's post.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:50 pm 
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Cyan emailed a clarification to me this afternoon at around 2:00PM Eastern USA time:

Quote:
We've mystcommunicated!

Several of our knowledgable fans have pointed out that Microsoft does
still support Windows 2000 - for a price. Thank you for adding that
additional piece of information and for correcting us on that matter.
Perhaps if that were the only obstacle between Myst Online and Windows 2000,
we could find the additional budget needed to cover that cost. However,
the other factors we alluded to - some beyond our control - still
prevent Myst Online: Uru Live from working on Windows 2000, so I'm afraid
our position in this new light is no better. Windows 2000 will not be
supported in Myst Online: Uru Live.

We truly hope that Windows 2000 users can still find a way to upgrade
and join us in the cavern.

Once again, sorry for the inaccurate information.

Sincerely,

Cyan Worlds


FYI....

Dadguy

EDIT: I see that they have already added this to the original post. Sorry for the repeat!


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