Introducing: PlasmaClient!

OHB · **Joined:** Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:28 am **Posts:** 1247

Marten wrote:

I just had an interesting thought. (Maybe someone else mentioned this already but I did not see it!)

Since this open source client currently runs content offline, reading all of the ages from the hard drive and performing only a tiny bit of up-front communication with the Myst Online server...

... does this mean that, as this client evolves, it could be used to single-player test new fan ages being developed, before those ages are made available through the server? I can see how an "offline" mode for the client would be extremely useful for testing purposes.

Why not?! Remember, PlasmaClient is basically just responsible for making things appear on the screen and the background communication protocols. Just because it has capability X or Y doesn't mean it has to be used. That includes sever communications.

Paradox · **Posted:** Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:16 am

On the GoW forum, Lontahv had actually mentioned using PlasmaClient to build a SceneViewer/Preview tool for PyPRP2.

Deledrius · **Posted:** Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:09 am

Paradox wrote:

On the GoW forum, Lontahv had actually mentioned using PlasmaClient to build a SceneViewer/Preview tool for PyPRP2.

That was my initial thought as far as usefulness of this, aside from the obvious replacement client itself. An offline mode would be invaluable for testing, I should think (but either way it requires the netcode I suppose, and offline mode requires both client and pseudo-server).

JWPlatt · **Posted:** Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:34 pm

Two and a half years ago, I suggested on the Guild of Writers forum that it would be useful to create a peer to peer client (like many home games, such as Age of Mythology, do now).

I wrote:

Has any thought been given to integrating a server and netcode module into CC or TPOTS to support peer to peer multiuser play? I don't mean to ask that it work for hundreds of people. I'm aware enough of the load and communication issues to know better. I just mean for small groups of people, say two to ten, to visit the Cavern and other ages together without needing to rely on a single server. And if you were feeling adventurous with your programming, allow node servers for people who have high bandwidth availablity and who can link to another node server with another small group of people.

http://forum.guildofwriters.com/viewtop ... =10&t=1556

It's an old thread and the GoW doesn't want new posts to it, so please observe their wishes. Just refer to it for background if you wish.

The reason I bring this up now is because of this client. Perhaps now is an appropriate time to resurrect the idea of spontaneous or virtual P2P "shards." One of the reasons the idea could not be easily implemented, as Paradox explained, was "the actual code of the .exe cannot be modified." With open source software, that is solved.

Further, and importantly, combined with Marten and Lontahv's idea of a PRP previewer, you're getting into collaborative, ad hoc development tools. That is, an instant shard comprised of clients viewing and testing new ages. Collaborative tools are the evolution of most things and would be especially beneficial to a widely distributed community pipeline.

Ed Oscuro · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:39 am

I just saw this...even if it's not 100% (I haven't tried it out yet) it's definitely a great step in the right direction.

Thanks for the hard work on Uru - multiple fronts - Paladin of Kaos! MOUL Fixer looks great too.

JWPlatt wrote:

Collaborative tools are the evolution of most things and would be especially beneficial to a widely distributed community pipeline.

I don't have anything that I can point to, but I recall reading an article questioning the relative failure of P2P versus promises. Sure, it works for some applications, but a program like Myst Online really benefits from the client-server model. It's nice to get everybody (or at least as many people as possible) under one roof at a time. (We all remember that the word "shards" refers to good old Ultima Online, and it was their hasty rationale for why you couldn't play in the same world as every other player - the real-world reason being that there was simply too much demand for one high-end internet connection and/or computer to keep up with it).

Erik · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:36 am

Such an admirable achievement already. I'm impressed! This could have many advantages... it will be the first native Mac/Linux client for one thing. It will be interesting to watch the differences between this client and the official one, regarding the physics engine for example... Imagine this client eventually becoming better than the official one!

I presume this project still has a long way to go, but looking at the screenshots, a lot of progress has been made already. One question though: I notice that the texture quality is quite low (e.g. the floor of the Eder Tomahn). Is that the best the client can do for now (I don't mean that condescendingly), or can you set some sort of texture quality like in MOUL?

I'll check it out soon! As a Computer Science student, I'm naturally very interested in seeing the code and how everything ties together. I hope I can make something out of it.

Marten wrote:

(..) or maybe turn back on the cones.

If that doesn't convince everyone... :lol:

JWPlatt · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:51 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:

I don't have anything that I can point to, but I recall reading an article questioning the relative failure of P2P versus promises. Sure, it works for some applications, but a program like Myst Online really benefits from the client-server model. It's nice to get everybody (or at least as many people as possible) under one roof at a time.

Please note that this idea of adding peer to peer to the client is offered only as a very small group or collaborative testing solution. If you want more than, say, ten people supported at once, a server is the way to go. Keep in mind that even under a peer to peer ad hoc session, there is still a temporary host - aka server. It is also interesting to think of your traditional server as a special case where the "host" happens to be a persistent server and vault capable of supporting thousands.

One of the things that supporting peer to peer does is to keep things independent from the business success or the capricious whims of a host. If the host goes down, whether temporarily or permanently, you can still play.

Lars Nordstrom · **Joined:** Thu May 14, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 59

So, has anyone built a Mac binary yet?

Paradox · **Posted:** Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:05 am

People have had some success compiling it on a Mac, but there are some fairly specific things that need to be done to make it run properly.

There are no binaries for any platforms yet (and probably won't be for quite some time). It is still rather bare-bones at the moment.

Marten · **Posted:** Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:50 pm

What can members of the community do to help this project continue to advance?

I mean this in both a general sense (what can we all do?) as well as specific (what can individuals do, provided that they have the necessary skills?).

PaladinOfKaos · **Joined:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:55 pm **Posts:** 625

Marten wrote:

What can members of the community do to help this project continue to advance?

I mean this in both a general sense (what can we all do?) as well as specific (what can individuals do, provided that they have the necessary skills?).

Right now there's not much non-coders can do to help. It's still too early for much beta-testing to be happening. The best thing you can do is tell your coder friends to come help me, give a little donation, or even just send me an email telling me that I'm your hero and I should never stop working on this thing :lol:

As for coders... It depends on your skillset. If you're familiar with OpenGL and/or DirectX, there are still lots of graphics bits to be implemented, as well as some generally matrix-oriented math chunks (like sprites). If you're familiar with Bullet, or even a different phsyics engine, getting the framework for ray-casting queries in place would mean steps towards working clickables, and a bit of progress towards the eventual integration of proper camera support. If you're familiar with coding in general but not anything particularly game-related, there's a bunch of very tedious class-writing that I've been putting off, which will silence a bunch of useless warnings on age-load and make it clearer where the issues with current features are, as opposed to a big list of things we've not implemented yet. I'm also perfectly willing to take the time to coach anyone in the right skills to be useful to the project - a lot of this I'm having to learn as I go, so I won't hold that against you.

That list is by no means exhaustive - Plasma is a massively complicated program. I'll try to get something up on the webpage that I can update and show progress of various features on - but I've still not even managed to get an updated summary that covers the various FAQs from IRC, this forum, and the guild meeting yet, so I don't really have an ETA on any new page features.

KT · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:19 pm

YOU'RE A HERO PALADINOFKAOS
(applause from all)
Maybe they can name an age after you

janaba1 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:11 pm

Haha... Yesss, I second this... You're our HERO, PaladinOfKaos!!! Never stop working on this thing... Thank you...

PaladinOfKaos · **Joined:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:55 pm **Posts:** 625

After about a month of work, some massive renderer changes have been (almost) finalized, and I'm finally confident enough to share new screenshots again. So please check http://rel.to/plasmaclient for the new images..

They're mostly shots of city areas. I'm especially impressed with how well the Kadish Gallery renders. In the outside view of the library you may notice the barriers are translucent - I'm working on tracking that particular bug down. Relto also looks quite different from how it did in the older shots, though of course lots of things are still broken - Relto is actually one of the more visually complex ages.

Special thanks go to Yootay for implementing a reasonable facsimile of a flymode, without which getting around the city would be impossible at this stage in development.

MercAngel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:14 am

something i was playing with a bit ago before the max plugin and some other stuff do not know if you can get any thing out of it but have a look alos think is has some plugin for blender also

Crystal Space is a mature, full-featured software development kit (SDK) providing real-time 3D graphics for applications such as games and virtual reality. It is free (LGPL) and cross-platform (Windows, GNU/Linux, Mac OS X).

http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Main_Page

Introducing: PlasmaClient!

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