Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm Posts: 1814 Location: California
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@ Stucuk, I wasn’t clear so you took it differently than I intended. Sorry. Core changes… I meant in the programming side. For all those things to move the game would need lots more object definitions and attributes. It is hard to know what Plazma does and does not include or support. I am sure PhysX could handle it but I don’t know that CWE engine would support the render for that complexity. May be.
@ ChloeRhodes, I suppose one can think it is and isn’t real time creation. He spec’s a terrain and then generates it, which usually is not thought of as real time editing. That it is done within game confuses the labeling. The process suggests it would be difficult if not impossible, without fundamental changes, to edit mesh vertex by vertex. Since the age geometry is typically downloaded before the age renders, there has to be some way for the 2nd player to get the on-the-fly mesh, which is why I think of real time editing as impractical in Uru’s MMO environment.
A few other virtual worlds have real time editing (OpenSim and SL), so we have known it is possible. That it will ever be in general use in Uru seems unlikely. That it would ever reach the level that a group could build concurrently seems highly improbable.
@ Regnad Kcin01 & Szark, new ages draw players but we have been over the problems with depending on just new age content. I understand that is what will draw you back to the cavern. But, hopefully we come up with some ideas of what can make the content last longer and reduce the demand for ages.
@ Zardoz, I agree the art does provide infinite possibilities. A portion of the community has the idea we should only find old D’ni books and learn more about the D’ni and only the worlds created by the D’ni. That has a certain attraction. It certainly was the story line when only Cyan was designing ages. But, allowing the story to follow RL open source changes where more people are learning to model ages is reflected by current day IC people learning the art and designing worlds. One has to decide if someone creating a linking book to a Barsoom (Pixar John Carter On Mars film ) type world fits into Uru. The community is divided on this point.
Whether we have new worlds like Barsoom isn’t really the question nor will we ever agree on whether it is a good idea. That shift in permissible styles of worlds can increase verity but does it really change Uru’s voracious demand for new content and poor player retention?
Regnad Kcin01 wrote: […]the more accurate observation would be that Uru failed in general because its limited re-playable content was too time-intensively lavish, and too quickly consumed to be profitable.
Regnad summed up the problem nicely.
Logins are probably an ok metric for an indicator of success. We’ve discussed success being different things to different people. People liking and playing in Uru is a type of success.
RE: Dot, her post points out a style of age testing and creation that can be fun. As MOULa/MOSS/CWE (Plasma?) works now inviting people to test ages and being able to edit them is way complicated. In other game engines it is much easier (OpenSim). So, will linking from Uru into other game engines be acceptable game play? For some of us it is. Whether we as a community accept the engine-linking idea or not using OpenSim for testing and experimenting is in progress. I expect that use to increase when OpenSim and SL upgrade their systems this year and allow Blender models for building in those engines. See: Explanation of Modeling Changes in Second Life
Beyond just testing, game play in those engines now have some features people are bringing up here. But, those places have player retention issues too. Being able to link to those areas provides a cheap place (cheap in labor, learning, time, hosting cost) to experiment without the need to write lots of code to change MOSS/CWE. Faster testing validates or discredits the ideas we have about player retention and popularity.
It certainly changes the time-intensity, or labor intense, dynamic of bring new content into Uru.
The key question may be whether clicking a link and having another window on the desktop open is more damaging to immersion than watching a black screen with a progress bar?
@ Regnad Kcin01, I hold no hope that there will be any sort of significant development from a player's perspective as a result of the Open Source effort.” I’m not so hopeless… I do think it will take some time. Ryzom is probably a good example of how Uru will develop and the time needed.
@ B'ni Rabbit, as to currency changing the basic nature of the game… could be. But, I don’t think so because we are playing as ourselves finding the D’ni cavern. If you go into Marvel Cave in RL does your cell phone, credit cards and money suddenly vanish and fall out of your consciousness? No. So, I’ve never understood why people think an in-game currency would suddenly change the Uru universe.
@ Lyrositor, credits, points, experience points… these can be a leveling thing or a trading tool. Cyan put things in the game that gave people some bragging rights. So, we sort of have some leveling. It is pretty subdued. We have no trading features. So, I think currency in the conventional meaning would be a game-feel change. It might be good or bad. Experience point systems are used in many RPG’s to encourage play and enhance player retention via a competitive spirit. That too would be a game-feel change. I think a currency would have less impact than competitive leveling. How do you see those aspects affecting the game?
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I also want to remind people that going the route of fairness is a dead end. We may be able to have a reasonable, equitable, and morally just game but fairness is an unattainable goal. It is not only unfair to hold back or not reward or otherwise incentivize those building the game, it is unjust, inequitable. Avoid the word fair.
Consider how one would make a currency system equitable to all players. Take fairness and equitable to another thread. How this may help or hurt player retention is suitable for this thread.
_________________ Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah Guild of Cartographers 
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