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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:30 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
Perhaps when someone can unearth the source of the underlying bugs in the linking code (and some general consensus of how linking rules should work is agreed upon), these can be renabled in the future. From comments made by the folks who are hip deep in reworking the code, it is not immediately obvious where the problems lie.

The first part? I still wager it's just not passing the specific age instance correctly so the game is defaulting to "if (age.public) return age.public else return age.sharer" as it were... the fact that it's been since the beginning implies it hasn't been fixed yet after all and never really did work. Did they rewrite the code entirely when they transitioned from DIRT to MUDPIE or MUDPIE to URU?

The SECOND part is impossible :wink: Why? Because according to the rules, we shouldn't be able to do what we're doing.. and the only reason we can is "Yeesha Magic" (or "Bahro Magic" but they taught Yeesha it presumably) which is a shorthand to say "It works because of resident deus-ex-literati, aka god from the plot" aka "She's a plot device so the gameplay works the way we want".
Of course we can narrow that down some. I figured it was pretty simple in intent. If you share a book/stone/etc, the person goes to the same place you would link to. In the case of hood ages like Descent or the Spyroom or SBO or GZ or what, you'd go to the instance their hood has of it. In the case of Gahreesen (the KI only version) it'd be the one linked from that hood, their hood's version. All cavern locations have a hood instance and a public instance.. we haven't seen the public Descent (though we should have one made), and I'd say the hood itself is included there (but that's a can o worms itself). In the case of other ages that are private ages you'd go to the user's private instance of it. There's only private instances of those, although I can see why we want to avoid the idea of a public instance of them I wouldn't mind a way to get at it. At least so we can have a public Wall to climb in and all watch..

Eh, the problem is how it SHOULD work is entirely different, in that there's none of this Yeesha-induced-instancing stuff, and we have public only. UU/D'mala worked that way eventually once the code was changed to make all the ae'gura stones send to public... it wouldn't have been feasible when Live/MOUL was in full swing (the city got laggy with 50 people.. imagine EVERYONE crowded into the one instance!) but we might be able to now with the reduced numbers of MOULA (or at the least, code could be tweaked to make the engine handle distant players etc by ignoring 99% of the rendering/location past a given vision range, and only caring about immediate surroundings and update only as needed?)
The catch is the same would apply to the private ages and such, at least ahnonay/er'cana since they're not accessed by special bahro pillar.

Really, I guess what I'm saying is if we can't bring people into hood-specific instances of the ages that we should be able to.. create a public version of EVERYTHING in the cavern, save for hoods themselves, and then give a way to access that so we have a next-best-thing :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:17 pm 
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According to your "rule" a bahro stone should send the explorer with whom we share the stone to the same instance as us when we link without sharing. Right?


Can someone explain to me "why" those 2 bahro stones were "broken"?

The bahro stone located in Eder Kemo linking to Classroom Rooftop
The bahro stone located in the entrance building of Gahreesen linking to Neighborhood Balcony

You can try to find me a clever answer to that...there's no logical explanation to why you got rid of those links.

Those links were perfectly working on the "rule" of sharing.

Gondar wrote:

Quote:
and in turn the easiest solution is to stop sharing entirely.


Great solution!

I'm looking forward for great other new builts!!!!! :evil:

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P.S. the "you" here is generic not specific to Gondar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Annabelle wrote:
Can someone explain to me "why" those 2 bahro stones were "broken"?

During beta if it was not a game stopper it did not get fixed and or was asssigned a low priority. Cyan did not have time or resources to fix much else. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:08 am 
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Ok... thx Semplerfi

Can we push forward backward changes for the next built?

I really think these 2 bahro stones were working perfectly. I would do a ticket on OpenURU.org with pleasure but if it will go on a low priority and without real interest from the decision-makers I won't do it... :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:14 am 
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I wonder if a feature such as a journal could be implemented in? I really miss being able to write in a journal whilst exploring. Of course I suppose the KI works for that purpose as well... to an extent. Just doesn't feel the same. Anyone else want journals?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:31 am 
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Annabelle wrote:
Ok... thx Semplerfi

Can we push forward backward changes for the next built?

I really think these 2 bahro stones were working perfectly. I would do a ticket on OpenURU.org with pleasure but if it will go on a low priority and without real interest from the decision-makers I won't do it... :?


Just because you have become accustomed to it doesn't make it less a bug. Sadly I think a lot of the linking is horribly broken and people have just come to be used to it. Gondar sums up my feelings on it very well. It's a lot of plot devices all conspiring against consistency and rationality.

That said, if you feel strongly about it you should open a ticket. It's the best way to express your thoughts on the matter in an actionable way. If there's enough support, perhaps it will help create motivation to find a better fix for the entire question of linking in general.

We've spent some time over at the Guild of Writers, and elsewhere, discussing the problem. It's an issue that's been around on this forum, OU, GoW, and probably many others. No one has any definite solution which satisfies everyone's wants and needs. Over the years, Uru had come to use linking in so many different ways that any good idea for one spot conflicts somewhere else. At some point, minor gameplay changes will need to be made if we're going to come to a proper solution, and I think we all know how well that will go over in this playerbase. ;) Uru is such a blank canvas that everyone sees something different in their personal experience of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:35 am 
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Annabelle wrote:
The bahro stone located in Eder Kemo linking to Classroom Rooftop
The bahro stone located in the entrance building of Gahreesen linking to Neighborhood Balcony


You CAN still share those two Neighborhood stones (they didn't get rid of those shares), I would hope no one is trying to remove the share on those ones since they are most definitely not broken at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:20 am 
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right ehren :D (thanks)

the logic prevails on those 2 stones!

They kept their sharing abilities. Ok no need from my parts to open a ticket.

I just wanted to ensure those 2 were kept shareable. They are. For me the file is closed.

I know though some explorers are not happy and might fight more.

As long as the 2 stones will keep the shareability, I won't submit a ticket on that matter. :)

----
@Deledrius... nevermind

I think you didn't get my last post, I wasn't doing a critic on the whole sharing issue just the "logical" one under what I considered the "rule" of sharing in my own words of what I understood from Gondar's posts

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:08 am 
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I will add more...

Here's a list of Bahro Stones still shareable. Their common characteristic is the "rule" I edicted in one of the previous posts.


in Eder Kemo: link to Classroom Rooftop

in Gahreesen: link to Neighborhood High Balcony

in Ae'gura: link to Teledahn isolated dock

in Sharper's Office: link to Teledahn isolated stump

in Teledahn: link to Gahreesen Prison Cell

in Ae'gura: link to Kadish Pyramid top <----- this one is theorical, I didn't find the stone while testing

So all those bahro stones are ok. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:28 am 
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semplerfi wrote:
Annabelle wrote:
Can someone explain to me "why" those 2 bahro stones were "broken"?

During beta if it was not a game stopper it did not get fixed and or was asssigned a low priority. Cyan did not have time or resources to fix much else. :(


In prologue the eder kemo bahro stone was not there. Resulting in the famous balcony jump to get to the classroom roof. So there were some changes made ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:10 am 
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Geert wrote:
semplerfi wrote:
Annabelle wrote:
Can someone explain to me "why" those 2 bahro stones were "broken"?

During beta if it was not a game stopper it did not get fixed and or was asssigned a low priority. Cyan did not have time or resources to fix much else. :(


In prologue the eder kemo bahro stone was not there. Resulting in the famous balcony jump to get to the classroom roof. So there were some changes made ;)

There's a gap of a couple years between one beta and the other, if I'm reading this correctly... ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Deledrius wrote:
Geert wrote:
semplerfi wrote:
Annabelle wrote:
Can someone explain to me "why" those 2 bahro stones were "broken"?

During beta if it was not a game stopper it did not get fixed and or was asssigned a low priority. Cyan did not have time or resources to fix much else. :(


In prologue the eder kemo bahro stone was not there. Resulting in the famous balcony jump to get to the classroom roof. So there were some changes made ;)

There's a gap of a couple years between one beta and the other, if I'm reading this correctly... ;)

Yes Deledrius I was referring to the Gametrap beta. They made more of an effort to fix stuff in the first beta (Prologue) than the second one (Gametap).

[side note]
I tried for weeks (if not months) to do the balcony jump with a ball mouse and slow notebook. And we must not forget the bucket jump with its way too small start point. Up on getting new laptop with electronic mouse I could do the jump on command anytime. LOL!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:00 am 
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Ah, the balcony jump in prologue! You can do it in the vanilla URU ABM too.
I was one of five who made it into the egg room on Katran the night before it was opened up. It took about five hours to get all five of us in. Needless to say we were disappointed that nothing happened when all of the little rooms inside were occupied simultaneously.
[Balcony jump to classroom roof, classroom roof to invisible ledge, invisible ledge to egg room (from above)]


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 Post subject: Tokotah Rooftop
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:29 pm 
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i have given this quite a bit of thought and...
i have one problem that i would like to address...

The Tokotah Rooftop is/was used by many explorers.
I would really like a way to explore it with others.
The only way to do this now is for everyone to join the same hood.
I think this is a problem that effectively removed the ability to enjoy the Tokotah Rooftop with friends.

I understand this was originally intended to only be shared with neighbors.
That was when they where planning on thousands of explorers and needed a way to limit the size of the crowd in certain places.
But we sadly don't have an overcrowding issue now.


I greatly appreciate the work that is being done to improve this game :)
I feel this fix may have had an unintended result that didn't go over so well with a lot of MOULa explorers.
Don't let me discourage you. The hard work is appreciated. Just hoping we can keep working on this.

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