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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:50 am 
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One thing I did learn.
How do you keep a bunch of Cavern dwellers out of miscief??
Ask a simple question.
Just asked if it was possible...lol ..not the mathematical possibilities of it being so.
[spoiler]If the writers had of factored into the game that the glyph would not show up until you finished Ercanna and saw the code on the Bahrocave wall...then no matter how many times you flipped the sequence it would not work.[/spoiler]
Hence all of your wonderful Math does not answer the question of possibility...just probability.
Lol.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Ah, no thanks. That would have broke Suspension of Disbelief again, like not being able to reach the Gira cave in the dark, or jump over that rock in Er'cana :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:10 am 
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I can't speak for the rest of us but I think we've demonstrated it's possible to do it, you're just very lucky to have done it in one go. :P

korovev wrote:
chrissifniotis wrote:
apart from switching the generalization to n > k >= r

I see a little problem if k = r :lol:
Also, n >= k is not really necessary (it's there only to avoid the negative in the factorial)...


I get that, I was only referring to this case itself. :) If k = r then the equation should equate to 0, which should be the number you're after since it means all four symbols are known.
Actually, the math says [(7-4)!/(7-4)!]/(4-4) - 1 = (3!/3!)/0 - 1 = -1, so I guess I lose there too.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:55 am 
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Having attempted the "brute force" method myself (to no avail), I wonder if there's any similarity between the Bahro Pillar code and the Pellet code (as in sharing certain symbols, etc.). I guess being randomly generated each time would put a damper on that possibility, but it would be interesting if some pattern existed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:38 pm 
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There's a high percentage of having at least 1 or 2 symbols from one code inside the 2nd code.

But let us think logically here :lol: ... you have 7 symbols... hmm 4 to make a code.

So is there a pattern? No doubt :wink:

I would stick to the brute force technique which is more relevant & easy in the long run.

It can go quite fast if you have a war plan made. Remember that Yeesha's wrong appearance speech lasts 5 seconds.

1) As soon as you see her, zoom back the panel
2) change the code & wait...
3) wait until she disappears then click to see the new result.

You'll zoom back out & if Yeesha reappears, redo the whole process. If, by mistake, you clicked the 1st speech code, she will begin to talk, stop her then redo the whole process explained above.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Annabelle wrote:
There's a high percentage of having at least 1 or 2 symbols from one code inside the 2nd code.

But let us think logically here :lol: ... you have 7 symbols... hmm 4 to make a code.

So is there a pattern? No doubt :wink:

I would stick to the brute force technique which is more relevant & easy in the long run.

It can go quite fast if you have a war plan made. Remember that Yeesha's wrong appearance speech lasts 5 seconds.

1) As soon as you see her, zoom back the panel
2) change the code & wait...
3) wait until she disappears then click to see the new result.

You'll zoom back out & if Yeesha reappears, redo the whole process. If, by mistake, you clicked the 1st speech code, she will begin to talk, stop her then redo the whole process explained above.

keep a list so you don't enter the same code twice.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:12 pm 
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sometimes discussions like these make me wonder if the game is made correct.
In this case? There is virtually no chance that a new explorer would do this. The imager is used once with good result so there is no reason to use it again until "prompted" to think there is more to see by reaching the spot in the game.
I realize no one made the point contrary to mine. Thank you for an entertaining thread.

on a side note.
Many riddles in the gamed can be brute force opened once one knows exacrly how they work and that one wants to do it :) But I know of one instance of brute force opening the book to dunny in Myst. My love was simply to scared by the brothers behaviour to put more than one page each in those books. she traveled all around and finally opened the fireplace vault with by using the code book. not to much work as the right pattern was in a predictable spot. I don't think this was a real brute force cracking as it came out of a proper understanding of the situation by full exploration. The content in the sons books are more like hints than anything else anyway. It is a point of how far you are willing to chance giving them pages for information ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:33 am 
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Rudolfson wrote:
sometimes discussions like these make me wonder if the game is made correct.
In this case? There is virtually no chance that a new explorer would do this. The imager is used once with good result so there is no reason to use it again until "prompted" to think there is more to see by reaching the spot in the game.
I realize no one made the point contrary to mine. Thank you for an entertaining thread.


Maybe you didn't understand the essence of this whole thread...

We are only discussing about a way to reach K'veer without any help. There's a design flaw making it real easy to crack the code: 7 symbols of which 4 must be used.

A new explorer won't bother much about cracking the code for instance, that's true.

We are likely to be all old explorers in this thread and we all done the intended way at least 5 times each.

On a side note,
why bothering playing original Myst & feed silly red/blue pages to 2 creepy men when you can reach Atrus in K'veer in 2 mins chrono...?

Because...

We are likely to be all old explorers in this thread and we all done the intended way at least 5 times each.


---

I'm stating all this to show you that mostly newbies won't bother much about cracking puzzles. With the pass of time, some explorers like me for instance prefer a new kind of puzzle: "cracking the intended puzzles".

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Last edited by Annabelle on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:45 am 
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I found my K'veer code via brute force last night. It had but one symbol in common with my Pillar code. Now that I've done that, on to finishing my GZM missions!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:49 am 
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Aww, heckles...

I have an alternate avatar, and for that one, I decided to keep the 'fissure' in my Relto.. so I've never finished Yeesha's journey under that avatar.

Sheesh..
[Reveal] Spoiler:
I just went to Magicbot's K'veer, and added the link to my Nexus. Went into the public K'veer, and got my own Myst book.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:34 am 
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If you're into hard-core cheating :) :
[Reveal] Spoiler:
1. Log with the H'uru client to the specific avatar, then logout (this will dump some logs in the Logs folder).
2. Search in Python.0.log for "BahroCave solution" and "pellet cave solution".
3. Guessing how numbers and symbols are paired is left as an exercise for the reader. The first Yeesha message is 3250, clockwise.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Last year, someone on the GoW forums posted the pictures below on the forums ... Make of it what you want and enjoy ... :D

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Cheating that much isn't fun...

Sure you can modify every SDL (with plclient) of an age prior to solving it so you can have everything enabled/disabled (depending on the device). This way, the path will be clear... like in Teledahn for instance.

I'm not so sure where's the fun in that. I prefer not interacting much with the SDL in-game, that's more challenging. Let me explain:

Why would I touch the wooden drawbridge when it's possible to just let it in the vertical initial position forever & why would I touch the broken section of the catwalk to make it go down on the stump when crossing this section of the swamp is possible in both directions?

You do have a challenge, it's just different from the intended challenge (puzzles)

For K'veer entrance, the new challenge is to succeed getting at least one symbol. You don't know how hard it is until you do go in the upper section of pellet cave and drop a pellet. You have 5 seconds to first take back control of your avatar, turn around the hole, make sure you are well-positioned (all this with a silly camera angle that doesn't follow you). Then you must do jump and "catch" a symbol or a part of a symbol in a split second.

Sometimes, I just see a part of a symbol and that's my only clue. I learned to recognize how they are drawn especially on the upper portion of them because it's mostly what you can catch.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:15 pm 
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I'd agree, I just have an acquired dislike of brute-force methods :)
Also, matching symbols and numbers seems to me slightly more entertaining (or possibly it's just that I never managed to get to the other side of that hole in time). De gustibus...
However, I'm not touching any SDL, just taking advantage of a log dump (as described in what I guess is the same thread Janaba mentioned).

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Yeah, right korovev :D

I was just stating a general statement about hardcore cheating. I know for instance Michel aka MisterMagic built a "5 mins full relto" script. I never used it because I prefer having something to do even if I want to go fast.

I knew about this python.0.log file from Wampasdusaka (I hope I got the name right...). Janaba's pictures are taken from the GoW's forum where there was a thread some months ago about those symbols.

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