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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:56 am 
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I'd really like to donate myself however I'm not currently in a position to do so. Although a qualified secondary teacher I've only been able to get casual work and that dried up term 4 of last year so since mid-November I've been living on savings and borrowing money from family.

However with the new term about to start I'll start earning money again soon so I'm considering options for donation. Monthly is a nice idea but may not be practice if I dont know how much money I'll be earning from month to month. It'd be really great if we could be provided with some idea of what certain amounts will 'buy' Cyan, such as $10 will support a server for a month or something. Would make it easier to decide how much to donate.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:39 pm 
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I agree with Lehnah. It would be nice to have an idea of how much per month would be needed or fair. Of course, I realize that if everyone would send even a small amount every month there would be plenty of money. And also, of course, that is not going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:33 pm 
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KayM wrote:
I agree with Lehnah. It would be nice to have an idea of how much per month would be needed or fair.

This is a common question. The answer, as usually explained, is that Cyan doesn't want to pressure people into donating or creating expectations that some people couldn't afford or reduce the amounts of what others could afford. One size doesn't fit all - just what you are happy donating is the right amount.

I'll go out on a limb and be less ethereal. $5 monthly? That seems like a good amount to me to at least overcomes the credit card surcharges and still be disposable. If you think nothing of a few coffees per month at Starbucks, maybe $15?

Or let's put it this way: You're tooling down the road in your beater with the windows open and the breeze blowing through your thick mane of hair (for those balding, think of it as fantasy). Some of your cash carelessly placed on the seat beside you suddenly blows out the window. Ask yourself how much cash does it need to be before you turn around to pick it up? Maybe anything less than that is what you can afford.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:47 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and be less ethereal. $5 monthly? That seems like a good amount to me to at least overcomes the credit card surcharges and still be disposable. If you think nothing of a few coffees per month at Starbucks, maybe $15?


That may seem like a reasonable argument, but just yesterday I had minus $13 in my account. Everything I have had since losing work has gone towards bills, so sometimes even $5 is a stretch.

This is why I would like to know what a certain amount would get. If lean times come around again then I'd like to know what I'm helping Cyan "buy" with the little I might be able to afford. Cyan can't possibly personal thank everyone who donates - nor should they have to - but as someone who needs to be very concious of what they are spending their money on it would be reassuring to know where it's going.

On a side note, every time I've been to Starbucks it's been terrible. There aren't many here in Australia, but the quality of their beverages much get lost in "translation" from the US to here. :roll:

I wonder if we contact Cyan privately if they would fill us in, as long as we promised to not give out the details of course?

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:52 am 
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Lehnah wrote:
I wonder if we contact Cyan privately if they would fill us in


I doubt it :roll:

The bottom line is this....your donations are your thing...if you can, you will...if you can't, you won't...Don't feel bad if you can't donate for a time. We have proven (4 years now) to be a community of people that enjoy the game and those that can donate, will donate more, when times get tough for those that can't...

Enjoy what we have to be proud of...it's the longest it's ever been on...!!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:10 pm 
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What you are helping Cyan buy is a future for the Moula shard.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Lehnah wrote:
That may seem like a reasonable argument, but just yesterday I had minus $13 in my account. Everything I have had since losing work has gone towards bills, so sometimes even $5 is a stretch.

Sure, and that's not really such an unusual position to be in. But I'm also sure that JW Platt wasn't suggesting that $5/month should be a universal benchmark. In fact, I'd be pretty sure that across the community there's a lot of people that don't make a donation every month. But in any case, it all depends on what you consider to be "disposable income". Don't feel bad if that turns out to be $0 sometimes.

Perhaps the bottom line here is that $5 doesn't actually buy a whole lot in terms of paying for server leasing and labour for support work, so thinking of your donation in terms of "supporting a server for a month" is maybe not very meaningful. But lots of $5, $10 or whatever donations scattered through the months from among the whole community all adds up and goes a very long way.

I'll point to my earlier note on PayPal fees though - viewtopic.php?p=400821#p400821 - because if someone is finding that $5 is as much as they can spare in any given month then it might actually be a better idea to save up for a couple of months and make one bigger donation.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Remember my other constraint on what you consider disposable: How much are you willing to let blow out of the car window without going back to get it? Or maybe take mass transit and avoid the whole thing if the answer is $0; gas is expensive for joy rides, especially in that beater. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:

I'll point to my earlier note on PayPal fees though - viewtopic.php?p=400821#p400821 - because if someone is finding that $5 is as much as they can spare in any given month then it might actually be a better idea to save up for a couple of months and make one bigger donation.


Bloody fiery abyss, I had no idea of this. That seems like heck of percentage to take, and unfair to everyone but PayPal. Potty there isn't another system. Knowing this I think I might change my donations to quarterly, saving what I can on the interum.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Lehnah wrote:
Mac_Fife wrote:
I'll point to my earlier note on PayPal fees though - http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 21#p400821 - because if someone is finding that $5 is as much as they can spare in any given month then it might actually be a better idea to save up for a couple of months and make one bigger donation.
Bloody fiery abyss, I had no idea of this. That seems like heck of percentage to take, and unfair to everyone but PayPal. Potty there isn't another system. Knowing this I think I might change my donations to quarterly, saving what I can on the interum.

There is another way: you can send your donation directly to Cyan. All the information for using a check or credit card is on the Donate page. But, even if you go that route to save money, you might still want to send one large donation less frequently instead of several smaller donations - less trouble for both you and Cyan.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:19 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
... gas is expensive for joy rides, ...
... says the guy who doesn't have to pay the equivalent of eight bucks a gallon :wink:

Lehnah wrote:
That seems like heck of percentage to take, and unfair to everyone but PayPal.
3.9% is maybe a bit more of a cut than credit card companies take on a transaction, and I guess PayPal maybe operates in more risk prone areas. But it's the $0.30 flat rate fee that's a killer on small transactions; once you get much over $10 it's not such a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:12 am 
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Lehnah wrote:
On a side note, every time I've been to Starbucks it's been terrible. There aren't many here in Australia, but the quality of their beverages much get lost in "translation" from the US to here. :roll:


I have never been able to understand why people think Starbucks coffee is good! I've always hated it!! Of course, it's probably because I didn't drink coffee until I started getting it from a local Mom 'n Pop coffee shop.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Lehnah wrote:
Mac_Fife wrote:
I'll point to my earlier note on PayPal fees though - http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 21#p400821 - because if someone is finding that $5 is as much as they can spare in any given month then it might actually be a better idea to save up for a couple of months and make one bigger donation.
Bloody fiery abyss, I had no idea of this. That seems like heck of percentage to take, and unfair to everyone but PayPal. Potty there isn't another system. Knowing this I think I might change my donations to quarterly, saving what I can on the interum.

There is another way: you can send your donation directly to Cyan. All the information for using a check or credit card is on the Donate page. But, even if you go that route to save money, you might still want to send one large donation less frequently instead of several smaller donations - less trouble for both you and Cyan.


I don't trust Australia Post or customs enough to send that kind of info half way 'round the world.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:45 am 
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I don't drink coffee so I cannot comment on Starbucks' brew, but I think their chai (Tazo) is delightful.

Back onto the topic of giving:

First up - advice to anyone, if you are living paycheck to paycheck, don't donate. Put any spare money that you can away for a rainy day fund. If you donate your money away and fall on hard(er) times later, you will wish you had that money back. Don't make that mistake. And don't feel guilty. Part of being a responsible person is taking care of your basic needs first. There is nothing to be ashamed of for that. Those of us who are better able afford donating will not hold ill will towards you, and as long as you are a nice person, we will be glad that you enrich the community. Remember that there are more ways to give than with your pocketbook.

Now that I have that out of the way - this is the final month for the Obduction fundraiser via PayPal donations. Once that is done, our community has an opportunity to focus its efforts back onto Myst Online.

I'll repeat what I said in November at the conclusion of the CAVCON EXPERIMENT:
Marten wrote:
...we need something like 80 people donating $10 a month, or 40 people donating $20 a month. Consistently.

That is what's needed to reach stable CAVCON numbers. And as Mac has observed, $10 is a good minimum to reduce the % of the donation that is eaten up in fees, if donating via PayPal. If you are overseas, PayPal really is your best option, because postage is a fee in its own right that reduces what you can contribute; I would only suggest donating by U.S. Mail if you are in the United States, where postage is currently 49 cents.

I don't mean to discourage people from contributing with less frequency if that is what works better for them. Every dollar helps. Just remember that the road to CAVCON stability rests in the overall stability of the donations measured on a month-to-month basis, and so for those of us who can do that, we need to do that.

So starting with March, let's all work together to get the word out there: Donate monthly. Let's ask people to pledge that they will do this. And when it is happening, as we get more people to pledge to STABILIZE CAVCON, we will see it reflected in Post #1 on this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: CAVCON Meter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:05 am 
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Well stated Marten...those of you that have the opportunity to contribute at this time, do so..those of us that can't, won't today...but, we will, when we have that opportunity....I have to confess, I bought a newer, older new game today :mrgreen: ......so maybe next month?

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