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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:09 pm 
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Howdy and Shorah,

This is Katelin, although there probably aren't many people here who remember me (I was Katelin0 back in the Gametap days). I haven't hopped into the cavern in quite some time! Lately I've been working on a mod for Skyrim that adds Relto Island, reached by using a book in the inventory. Before I get too far into the work though, I want to make sure if it's okay to call it Relto and to use other terms like firemarble, Kadish, Yeesha, etc., or if I need to make new names. I'm not using any textures or meshes etc. from Uru; it's all either from scratch or using what's available in the official Skyrim modding tools. I tried to send an email to Cyan Legal to ask but I never got a response, so I'm not sure if it actually went through or not; so, I'm hoping someone from Cyan can let me know here.

Here are some screenshots in case anyone wants to see how it's coming along (very much work-in-progress but I'm pretty happy with it)...well if the links work, I'm about at my wit's end just trying to find a way to link them without having to jump through a million hoops:

Relto linking book:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Waterfall/Pool area on Relto Island:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Firemarbles on ground:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Firemarbles in inventory:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Kadish butterfly:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


I have many other things planned including changes to what you see above, but progress will be slow. Suggestions and criticisms are welcome! :)

Thanks,
Katelin


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:32 am 
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There are so many hundreds of mods that use copyright material, I don't think anyone is going to get on your case for this.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:34 am 
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Shorah Katelin,

Although this is by no means a real answer to your question, there are a number of Uru re-creations on Second Life, which have been there for a number of years by now. Many of them make direct re-use of MOULa textures and terminology.

So far as I can tell, Cyan have not objected to this use of their assets. Folks like Tai'lahr, Watashi, Donahoo and Nalates will have better information about this aspect of re-creating MOULa, since they have been involved in Second Life much, much longer than I have. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:39 am 
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My opinion on this is that if you recreate a "tribute" entirely from scratch in another engine then you're likely to be on pretty safe ground because it's almost entirely your own work. I think you'll find that re-using MOUL textures in another engine would be regarded as a no-no (I think the EULA basically states that), but Cyan will have limited resources to go pursuing those cases.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Hi, Katelin, I'm glad that your artworks are predominantly seen as not interfering with copyrights ... :P

As for myself I have to say that I wouldn't even think of Relto or Uru when looking at those pictures, except for the linking book, of course, which is generally being associated with the Myst Worlds, and of course, that's because I don't see the 'whole picture' here ...

However, your creations look so completely different, the lush and abundant vegetation, the wood material, the fire marbles, the sky and the butterfly and just everything is so different and absolutely beautiful, which doesn't necessarily make the 'real one' less beautiful, but I believe you know what I mean, and as Mac said, you've done that all as a tribute and entirely from scratch in another engine ... :)

You have also inquired an answer related to using Uru labels and terminology like 'Relto, fire marble, Kadish, Yeesha etc.' though, and I don't know how copyright would apply here and if at all, and all those specific terms are certainly not 'Trademarks', but in general I'd tend to see it the way Ainia described it very appropriately ...

Yeah, great job, Katelin, that's what I just wanted to express in my way in the first place, and I wish you much fun with your artistic creations further on ... :D

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:40 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
My opinion on this is that if you recreate a "tribute" entirely from scratch in another engine then you're likely to be on pretty safe ground because it's almost entirely your own work. I think you'll find that re-using MOUL textures in another engine would be regarded as a no-no (I think the EULA basically states that), but Cyan will have limited resources to go pursuing those cases.


This is very much the case. I agree with Mac_Fife. I'll expand a bit to explain what you have seen others doing.

There is the scenario of what is strictly 'legal', complies with copyright law. Taking and using textures and objects from the Myst games is prohibited, unless you get written permission from Cyan. They have a fan licence for such use and a limited set of content they allow to be licensed. The same is true for 'Myst' names, like Ahnonay.

Crux Isle made use of Cyan textures and names in Second Life to build a game that was a spin off from the MOUL story. They got a license.

Others have built tributes and replicas of parts of MOUL and Myst games. I suspect most have not gotten licenses. I know some haven't.

The practical scenario is all about what gets under Cyan's skin and that is what threatens their rights. They can't let their content fall into the public domain. If they allow an unlicensed user of the content to make money, that is a BIG step toward moving the content into the public domain. They have to take steps to prevent such use and failure to do so could cost them their rights.

The trigger for Cyan seems to be money and prominence. If someone is being public about their unlicensed use, meaning publishing and promoting, Cyan usually does something, cease and desist letter. Otherwise... I think they see the threat and risk as too small to bother with.

Few have ever heard of the Ahnonay built in SL. It doesn't seem to be a problem for Cyan. But, no one rubs it in Cyan's face. Nor does the builder make money from it.

Using all original content is the safest and its respectful of Cyan's rights.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:57 pm 
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Shorah, Katelin! I remember you. Hope you're doing well. Your creations are beautiful. I hope you'll post more pictures (or better yet, a link to a gallery of them) as your work progresses.

Fan tributes like this have been around since the release of MYST. Fan fiction often uses the characters and object names and fan art often recreates those as well. Yes, Second Life is probably the most prolific place for it - name any Myst/Uru Age and it's probably been recreated at least in part there. But, the fans don't profit from it and that's the key. And, if the tribute is done well, then Cyan can benefit if it prompts someone to seek out one of their games to purchase.

Good luck with your work. Can't wait to see more of it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Quote:
But, the fans don't profit from it and that's the key.


Except sometimes there's Myst-related fan art being sold on Etsy. It's all a lot of unspoken convention.

For that matter: I keep turning over the idea of a Patreon for Seltani support. I could do a lot more with that system if it had a funding source. Would that be creepy? (Asking the community as fans here, obviously. Hypothetically. I'd ask Cyan directly if I got to the point of *planning* this.)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:15 am 
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belford wrote:
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But, the fans don't profit from it and that's the key.
Except sometimes there's Myst-related fan art being sold on Etsy. It's all a lot of unspoken convention.
I had presumed that the majority of fans who created items for sale had rec'd permission from Cyan.

belford wrote:
For that matter: I keep turning over the idea of a Patreon for Seltani support. I could do a lot more with that system if it had a funding source. Would that be creepy?
No, not at all. I don't see it as any different than the Unwritten Kickstarter - except that your project already has a proven track record. If you think you can do more with funding, then you should consider that option, IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:31 am 
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Howdy and Shorah,

Thank you everyone for the information, I really appreciate it! It is extremely helpful. And apologies for taking so long to reply, I've been pretty busy and I've never been too good at the whole forum thing :oops:

I also got a reply from Cyan Legal today, which stated the same as y'all have said (that terminology is okay but a fan created art license should be pursued for other assets).

Tai'lahr wrote:
I hope you'll post more pictures (or better yet, a link to a gallery of them) as your work progresses.


Thanks, I made a blog last night to show updates and images: http://reltoforskyrim.blogspot.com/
I've never made a blog before so I am not sure if it shows correctly or not.

In case anyone is interested, I just got a template for Relto Pages working so you can turn things on/off in Relto. (I'm super excited about it!) I'll be making a lot of them and hiding them all through Skyrim.

Again, thank you all so much for the help!

Regards,
Katelin


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:18 am 
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Shorah Katelin,

I was able to see your blog just fine; the video works and all the images were clickable/zoomable too. :D

You are doing some impressive stuff here! And I'm glad to see you are working up a Skyrim-version of our beloved Quabs! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:27 pm 
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I think this mod idea is totally awesome! I am also a huge fan of both worlds so having them together as a tribute is brilliant.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
My opinion on this is that if you recreate a "tribute" entirely from scratch in another engine then you're likely to be on pretty safe ground because it's almost entirely your own work. I think you'll find that re-using MOUL textures in another engine would be regarded as a no-no (I think the EULA basically states that), but Cyan will have limited resources to go pursuing those cases.


Using textures from MOUL is definitely safe, as long as it is a generic kind of texture like dirt, stone, moss, sand, bone, water, etc. Basically, most of it would be safe.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:29 am 
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Ehren wrote:
Mac_Fife wrote:
My opinion on this is that if you recreate a "tribute" entirely from scratch in another engine then you're likely to be on pretty safe ground because it's almost entirely your own work. I think you'll find that re-using MOUL textures in another engine would be regarded as a no-no (I think the EULA basically states that), but Cyan will have limited resources to go pursuing those cases.


Using textures from MOUL is definitely safe, as long as it is a generic kind of texture like dirt, stone, moss, sand, bone, water, etc. Basically, most of it would be safe.


Wrong

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:57 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
Ehren wrote:
Mac_Fife wrote:
My opinion on this is that if you recreate a "tribute" entirely from scratch in another engine then you're likely to be on pretty safe ground because it's almost entirely your own work. I think you'll find that re-using MOUL textures in another engine would be regarded as a no-no (I think the EULA basically states that), but Cyan will have limited resources to go pursuing those cases.


Using textures from MOUL is definitely safe, as long as it is a generic kind of texture like dirt, stone, moss, sand, bone, water, etc. Basically, most of it would be safe.


Wrong


Now that I think about it, didn't they get a lot of textures from free texture sites anyway? Or at least a decent amount. I could've sworn this is the website they got a lot from: http://www.mayang.com/textures/

But right now I'm not finding a whole ton of matches with Uru, I swear it was easier to find a lot of the matches a long time ago. They say they have over 4350 textures, so it's a lot to look through.

At any rate, I don't see how someone could own the concept of dirt, grass, sand, rock, etc. So I can't begin to believe it would be a problem to borrow generic textures.

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