Comments on the Pictorial Dictionary?

Tweek · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am **Posts:** 2633

I'm an idiot I didn't even think of it being something like Laki Ahno >.<

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

Talashar wrote:

Based on the literal structure of the words, I would expect morokhmor to mean "maternal grandmother" and morokhpor to mean "paternal grandmother." The problem is that Atrus's Prayer uses mor'okh'mor, but it seems more likely for Atrus to be talking about Anna than about Keta's mother. So I'm not sure what's going on there.

Possibly the colloquial usage of the term morokhmor is based on children's usage in the family context. Here the children call their mother mor and perhaps both parents call both the grandmothers mor as well, following each others casual usage; so that to the young child morokhmor means either of the two women that mother calls "mother." Understood in this sense morokhpor would not be distinctive, but the repetition in morokhmor would make it an easier term for a young child to learn than the variation in morokhpor.

In a more formal context, such as discussing relationships, the two words would have their "logical" meanings of 'maternal grandmother' and 'paternal grandmother'.

Shorah

larryf58 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:35 am

I've always assumed that Laki'ahn meant "Laki water" or "Laki's water". It never occurred to me that it might mean something else, although that's always a possibility.

Still, the Age seems to be a small archipelago or an isolated island, and that keeps me leaning toward some form of water as a definition.

korovev · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:50 am

There’s also Negilahn (from gilo?), though it could be unrelated like Teledahn.

Also, note how tomahnah is often shortened in tomahn, so there might be some phonetic rule that works on ahn+vowel, and maybe other suffixes.

Tweek · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am **Posts:** 2633

It does get shortened but I always took that as a difference in terms like Tomahn = House, Tomahna = Home.

KathAveara · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:13 am

As I recall, Tomahna is not specifically a D'ni word, but was a name Atrus created from the word tomahn.

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

In this case Tweek is the one whose memory is correct.

Rawa confirmed that tomahn = 'house' and tomahnah = 'home' when Orz asked about the use of the latter in the sentence he translated for him.

Shorah

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

larryf58 wrote:

... the phrase regaro tiwa is official, not a mistake by fans. Rawa forgot how it ended up that way -- he says there are several possible explanations -- but as a personal thing, he likes the way it flows better than the grammatically correct retiwa garo. His in-character answer is, "It is contradiction to the known rules of D'ni grammar … but the DRC were never able to find a reason for the difference."

Talashar wrote:

That's an interesting comment from Rawa. It seems to be typical of gahro to precede the noun in compounds (gahrahno, gahrohev, gahrtahvo, gahrternay...). It may be that regahro tiwah, like regahro zeero, is closer to a compound than to a complex phrase such as redoyhahtee pradteegahl tor gahro b'fahsee, in which several other words fall between the noun and the adjective, which is itself modified by b'fahsee.

Another example of an adjective that seems to come before the noun it modifies is el 'high' as in Relto 'the High Place'. And this now seems to be parallel to the compound eleeahn if this does indeed refer to the "Upper Class" in the D'ni social hierarchy. This may support Talashar's idea that phrases with article + adjective + noun flow better than the grammatically regular article + noun + adjective when they correspond to compounds where the modifying component comes in front of the head component instead of following it.

Shorah

KathAveara · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:02 pm

Quote:

Aro is an adjective that means "other" in the sense of "different". Example: "I don't want THAT cup of coffee, I want the OTHER one."

aro is a verb, not an adjective

larryf58 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:27 pm

The definition, explanation, and the example are all from the horse's mouth. In other words, they are official.

KathAveara · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:44 pm

Is RAWA aware that this explanation contradicts literally everything about -tahn, then? Also, may I suggest giving a source when RAWA tells you something, so that it doesn't look like you being wrong.

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

We have always known that ahrotahn was an unusual word, since the translation "outsider" is not literally an agent noun. This fact that agent-noun suffixes can have other minor usages in a language is not a peculiarity of English; so it has always been a theoretical possibility that ahro is not a verb.

I agree with Kath that it would help to know which parts of Larry's "creativity" are peculiar to his own point of view and which parts reflect actual facts; especially as his own claims to objectivity are themselves couched in his personal brand of "humour"

Shorah

larryf58 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:26 pm

When I announced that I'd finished the second run-through of the fan lexicon, that was the end of my listing of words with theoretical definitions. IIRC, every word since then has been a new official release, either from Rawa to someone else or from Rawa directly to me.

When the words are guesswork, I say so in the notes. If I don't, they aren't.

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

That is good to know :!:

And hopefully other people will be able to figure out Larry's methodology, or else come here for an explanation ...

Shorah

P.S.
Here is an illustration of why the more directly one indicates information coming from Rawa (an exact quote is ideal) the more believable the information is. Can anyone else spot the uncertainty?

K'laamas wrote:

.shorah b'shemtee biv (:

RAWA recently gave someone a D'ni translation for a tattoo, & he's letting me release the new words publicly

It's a quote from the old Cyan Website:

.reh-nezeh-tahn kehn-ehn k'tehsh-ij treh-lehnah-okh kehvo-th
roob reh-gehl-tahn kehn-ehn reh-kehso-tahn tso dovah-tee

"The reader is entertained by the journey of another,
but the writer is the changer of worlds."

larryf58 wrote:

Kēvo is an adjective that means "another", "in addition to". Example: "I just had a doughnut. I want another one."

Kēvoth is the noun form meaning "one who is another". Example: "Love one another."

Khr.

Khreestrefah · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:01 pm **Posts:** 163

I guess I am being too subtle :wink:

K'laamas relayed Rawa's transcription of the original D'ni sentence behind the English translation, "The reader is entertained by the journey of another, but the writer is the changer of worlds." This included the D'ni noun spelled Kevo.

Larry included information in his dictionary, which he claims comes from Rawa, though he does not quote him directly, in which what appears to be the same D'ni word is spelled KEvo.

It seems likely that only one of these spellings can be correct; so I am just curious to know what Rawa literally did say and which parts of K'laamas's and Larry's shared information are their own additions

Shorah

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