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 Post subject: will dial up work?
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:30 am 
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I live in the middle of no where and high speed internet isn't availiable. So i was wondering if dial-up would work for the new URU Live?


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:42 am 
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For the question: Will dial-up work? I expect the answer will be the same as it was the first time Cyan wanted to launch Uru Live. "It might, but it's not officially supported." The biggest problems with dial-up for Uru Live are likely to be two things: (a) downloading Ages and updates can take a long time, and (b) certain features (voice chat in particular) may not work very well.

Now, I can't resist mentioning... while I'm sure you've researched this, broadband can consist of four possibilities:
* DSL
* Cable
* Satellite
* Wireless

The best place to check and see if you really are without hope for broadband is http://www.broadbandreports.com/ .

Satellite has high latency, which makes its status as "broadband" dubious, but it is still better than dialup if you can find it at an affordable price.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:05 am 
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From the meeting with Moke:

Question: Will dial-up users be able to register for Uru Live?
Moke: We're definitely not going to recommend dial-up, but there's nothing to stop that from working if you have superhuman patience.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:51 am 
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Eleri wrote:
From the meeting with Moke:

Question: Will dial-up users be able to register for Uru Live?
Moke: We're definitely not going to recommend dial-up, but there's nothing to stop that from working if you have superhuman patience.


Basically, the URU Live protocol (as it was previously) doesn't exceed the bandwidth of a good dialup connection, although some people claimed it contributed to the lag in the cavern. Perhaps with further lag improvements that issue will go away, if it ever existed (there seems to be good evidence on both sides). So, once you get in you should be able to play.

The real issue is the updates. An Uru Live update can be huge. I believe the largest one we saw during prologue (when we first got the Great Zero) was around 60-70 Mb. But we never got a "large" age (for example, something like Teledahn) in order to see how large an Uru Live update can really be. I suspect it could be in the area of 100-300 Mb. That's where the "superhuman" patience comes in. It could take 6-10 hours to download 100 Mb with a good modem connection. It could take longer if you have any connection problems.

One thing that would make a big difference would be if you have a 2nd phone line dedicated for internet usage, so that you don't have to tie up your voice line for such a long time. But even if you don't do this you might be able to manage it by simply logging into Uru before you go to bed and letting the download start. Hopefully you would have it all the next morning. That's assuming a 100 Mb update. Something bigger may make a 2nd line almost mandatory (of course you can always interrupt the download and restart it at a later time).

The other issue would be that while you are waiting for the download, everyone else is already exploring, enjoying the new content. That may or may not be a problem for you. It also would be somewhat mitigated by the fact that the update and the release of content don't have to go together, i.e. Cyan can provide the update in advance of actually turning on the content. I believe it is their intent to provide less frequent updates (i.e. once or twice a month) but potentially turn stuff on at random times throughout the month.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:26 pm 
Problems with what you suggested J'on are simple. First off not everyone can afford a 2nd phone line. To add a second phone line in my house would cost an additional $20-$40 a month. And on top of that they have to pay for $10 for Live. And on top of that there is the $10-$20 for most dialup ISP. That puts it at $40-$70 a month. Quite expensive just for a game. Personally I am willing to pay the $10 on top of what I pay my ISP. But I wouldn't be willing to pay $20-$40 on top of that just for a second phoneline.

The second problem falls in the category that part of the community are teenagers. Now most parents aren't as strict as mine were but we'll use mine as a worst case scenario. When I was growing up. It was always lights out at 10pm. Computer, TV, everything had to be turned off then also. So if even some of the parents are as strict as mine were then you would have some of the teenagers out there that couldn't download the updates while they were asleep.

I'm not meaning to sound negative but just though someone should interject the problems with the scenario. Dialup Users for the large part are going to be screwed over no matter what happens. Only a portion of the dialup Users will be able to get into Live.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:47 pm 
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hmmmm I've played and others have played online games with dialup. Most don't mind it(well untill they get broadband ;) ). When I first started playing EQ1 I started with dialup and download several patches and expansion packs. Some took all night some didnt.

Yea its slow, but thats one of the disadvantages of dialup.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:49 pm 
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As I mentioned elsewhere, it does suck that dialup will have these issues, and it isn't just a matter of 'choice' for some users.

But the fact is that dialup is not even the base standard technology for MMOs. They're not designed to be easily used on a dialup line, they're made for higher speed connections. If a company was to base its development and tech on the lowest denominator, and optimise for tech that is out of date, then you'd have a nearly unmarketable game.

So while yes, it is unfortunate that dialup gets left behind, it's not unfair, any more than it's unfair that no one makes 8 tracks anymore.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:23 pm 
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dial up does suck, but it is unfair to say dial-up is like 8 tracks b/c broadband isn't avialiable in all areas unless you are willing to pay close to $100 a month. I don't know about you but that is way to much.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:29 pm 
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J'on wrote:
The real issue is the updates. An Uru Live update can be huge. ... That's where the "superhuman" patience comes in.

I'd hate to see the dial-up players be able to play the game OK but miss out because of the updates. :(

The obvious solution would be to provide separately downloadable update files. Then those of us with broadband could do the major downloads and provide them direct to those on dial-up. :)

That does, of course, assume there's enough time between large udpates to get them to people.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:08 pm 
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Starfyre wrote:
Problems with what you suggested J'on are simple ...


I wasn't really suggesting anything. I was just trying to make it clear what the issues are for dialup users, so they may have a better idea whether or not they want to consider signing up. About the only thing that might have been a suggestion was the 2nd phone line.

But I would like to address one issue that you mentioned, related to cost. You itemized a bunch of costs and then said that is too much for a game. Many of those costs were the same costs associated with getting on the internet for any reason (phone line, ISP). As I mentioned a 2nd line is optional, but it makes some things easier, regardless of whether or not you play games online. Before broadband was available in my area I chose to install a second phone line for online usage simply because I didn't consider it acceptable to tie up my phone line for extended periods of time. It had nothing to do with gaming (online games didn't really exist back then).


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:17 pm 
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Zenguy wrote:
I'd hate to see the dial-up players be able to play the game OK but miss out because of the updates. :(

The obvious solution would be to provide separately downloadable update files. Then those of us with broadband could do the major downloads and provide them direct to those on dial-up. :)


Well, I'm sure we could develop tools that looked at the changes and developed our own patches. Someone who was interested in doing this could always start Uru from a script that copied the current set of files to a backup location, so that if anything new was downloaded the old could be compared with the new. However, in order to provide this service you would be distributing Cyan's proprietary content, which would require their permission to do legally. I'm just not sure there would be enough people interested to make it worthwhile (to develop the tools and also get the permission required).

Zenguy wrote:
That does, of course, assume there's enough time between large udpates to get them to people.


I'm fairly sure there would be. There may be more frequent small updates, i.e. for bug fixes, small changes, etc., but those could be handled by dialup users. The big updates would be associated with significant new content, and that isn't likely to happen too frequently (probably around once a month).


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:48 pm 
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No doubt Cyan will be having to make (or may have already made) some tough calls about the players on dial-up and whether they can/will support them. This can't be easy for them, knowing how comitted they are to their fan base.

While there may not be an 'official' solution for dial-up users, there are quite a few of use who would be happy to help out on a casual basis - as long as there is a practical way to do this.

Of course the best solution is cheap broadband for everyone, with an URU live subscription bundled in as part of the package ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:55 pm 
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Starfyre wrote:
To add a second phone line in my house would cost an additional $20-$40 a month. And on top of that they have to pay for $10 for Live. And on top of that there is the $10-$20 for most dialup ISP. That puts it at $40-$70 a month. Quite expensive just for a game. Personally I am willing to pay the $10 on top of what I pay my ISP. But I wouldn't be willing to pay $20-$40 on top of that just for a second phoneline.


That's the wackiest math I've seen since string theory.

:)


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:46 am 
Tkwiggins - In what way?

I based all that off what I know a 2nd phone line costs in my area as well as what I know ISP's charge in my area. If you go through Wal-Mart, Netscape, PeoplePC their all $10/month. Ok If you go through Local ISP's they usually charge at least $15-$20/month, minimum. Ok additional phone line is going to cost a minimum of $20 per month. More if you add in Long distance service. So you see where I got my figures. For Live with a second phone line bare minimum would cost $40. Thats bare minimum for Live, 2nd Phone Line, and a Cheap ISP.

Now maybe things are cheaper where your at. Don't know. But where I am at my math looks pretty close to being accurate.

J'on - I agree with ya. If you get a second phone and are using it for other things then just one game then I could agree with ya. But just for a game I think is a little expensive.

Despite all I have said here. I at one time got Broadband especially for Uru. Suffice to say though I use my broadband for more then just this game. I use it surf the net. Check email and so on. Anyways my initial reasoning behind it was cause of Uru. So in a way I am bashing myself here also.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:54 am 
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I agree, Starfyre.

Of course, what would I know, I'm always better at math early in the week ;)


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