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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:04 am 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
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Location: Virginia, US
The discussion consisted into six segments, each with its own set of questions regarding the Guild of Writers. If you missed the meeting, but want to provide feedback, feel free to reply to this post citing the question and your answer.

I. Introductions

Robert The Rebuilder: Well, let me review the format with you all.
Metaigahn: maybe we can do something about that!
Paradox: The hoods need to have the Lattice bug fixed before anything else >.>
Marein.: True
Robert The Rebuilder: I'll pose a question to the group...
Robert The Rebuilder: then you all respond - at any time you want; don't worry about taking turns...
Robert The Rebuilder: the chat logs will catch everything said.
Robert The Rebuilder: After a minute or two, I'll notify that we'll be moving to the next question like this:
Robert The Rebuilder: break
Robert The Rebuilder: break
Robert The Rebuilder: break
Robert The Rebuilder: THen I'll pose the next question.
Robert The Rebuilder: If you want me to clarify a question, just ask.
Robert The Rebuilder: Does everyone understand?
Paradox: Sounds good :)
Metaigahn: yes
Dovahn: Yep.
Marein.: Yup
Robert The Rebuilder nods his head
Robert The Rebuilder: Good.

Question I.1: How would you rate your age creation experience on a 5-point scale? (where 1 = none, and 5 = contributed at least 50% to creation of a publicly available age)
Paradox: 8?
Paradox: :P
Marein.: 2!
Marein.: Or maybe 3
Metaigahn: 3
Marein.: Yeah 3
Dovahn: 1.5 (I read about the process and watched it happen, but didn't participate.)
Robert The Rebuilder: Welcome, luetwo
Luetwo: 1
GermanShepherd: same
GermanShepherd: I'm a newb... just gathering info to see what it's all like :D

II. Mission Statement

Question II.1:What would the GoW provide the community that currently is not available?
Paradox: Tools that actually work
Robert The Rebuilder: lol
Paradox: Tools with documentation
Dovahn: Player designed ages.
GermanShepherd: yes... documentation good
Paradox: Tools that are userfriendly
Paradox: Ages that are user-created and representatice of the creative faucets of our community
Marein.: Yes, all of that what Par said
Marein.: Ages that can extremely easily be imported by non-builders

Question II.2: What would the GoW be responsible for?
Paradox: Making sure that Cyan content is not abused
Dovahn: (If we had access to it)
Paradox: Making sure that all Ages meet the legal requirements
Paradox: (no copyright textures/sounds/objects/etc.)
Paradox: The GoW would be responsible for the AGes that it creates
Dovahn: Responsible for the safety.
Metaigahn: I am agreeing with all this so far....
Paradox: !shorah Dhelayan
GermanShepherd: so if an age sucks someone into a black hole, they're responsible for the family >.>
Paradox: lol
Marein.: Haha
Paradox: but... yes

Question II.3: What lies outside the GoW's responsibilities?
Paradox: The GoW is not directly responsible for the Tools
Dovahn: ?
Dovahn: Isn't that what we just spoke about?
Robert The Rebuilder: WHat about artwork that is not used in an age? Is GoW responsible for that?
Paradox: Tools are (obviously) designed with the GoW in mind; and the GoW will have influence on the Tools; but the Tools themselves are not part of the GoW
Robert The Rebuilder: And what about creative writing not related to an age?
GermanShepherd: creative writing... like novels?
Marein.: Well, if the tools are inexpertly used to abuse the game and render it unplayable the GoW is not responsible for that
Robert The Rebuilder: Right
Paradox: I suppose that Artwork would depend on whether it could be used in the future or not
loyholleran: hi
GermanShepherd: the D'ni Guild of Writers was strictly for Ages... there's another Guild for creative writing
Robert The Rebuilder: Shorah, loyhelleran - come on up to the clock
Paradox: I'd like the idea of releasing some concept Art similar to the way that Cyan does...
Paradox: GS > yes, but the GoW will need people to write storyline for the Ages
Metaigahn: Yes, our focus in Ages -- creativity not directly involved is outside, imho
Dovahn: Oh, boy...

III. Structure: ranks, privileges and responsibilities

Question III.1: Would having a ranking prove beneficial to the GoW? Why or why not?
Paradox: Not really
Luetwo: I don't think so
Dovahn: My answer: yes, because it can give people something to aspire to.
Marein.: No
Paradox: The structure should be dynamic based on the project
Dovahn: Not too large or anything, but hard work should be rewarded in a tangible way.
loyholleran: where is every one
Paradox: Using the example of Ahra Pahts here (one of the Age Builders Ages)
Marein.: Yes, everyone has their own tasks but not ranks in the big picture of the guild
Luetwo: but it could make those who have not had luck getting an age going get discouraged
Paradox: Aloys is "in charge" because he designed the Age and the master plan for it
Metaigahn: Well, aside from projects, does the GOW have need for it's own administration?
Paradox: however, Aloys is not anymore important than anyone else in any other projects
Metaigahn: too coordinate the projects and tools
Dovahn: Something small, possibly.
Luetwo: I think we need someone who can pass projects between people in the guild
Paradox: I'd like to see people take on leadership roles without the promise of a reward

Question III.2: What privileges would a member of the GoW have over non-members?
Luetwo: There are some things I cannot do, yet others can
GermanShepherd: hopefully none...?
Paradox: Access to the storyline resources and models for Ages
GermanShepherd: other than making ages :p
Dovahn: Probably nothing besides clothing or a "guild lounge".
Marein.: To send in their Ages to the 'database' so they can be imported by others
Dovahn: A lot of people have mentioned that they would like to independently...
Dovahn: develop ages, not connected with the GoW.
Paradox: I'm thinking that we might at some point want to have members sign an "NDA" about future content, so that it isn't spoiled for other players
GermanShepherd: independent ages? o.O
Paradox: Ideally though, there should be no "priveleges" to being in the GoW
Paradox: I'm not sure how independant Ages would work
Dovahn: I think that having "guild clothing" or something like that wouldn't be a problem.
Paradox: It's possible that all Ages need to go through the GoW; so having a "
Paradox: non-members can submit Ages"
Paradox: section might be a good idea
Marein.: Guild clothing and the like would easily leak though
Dovahn: As for the independent ages, it makes some sense to have it pass through the GoMa.
GermanShepherd: ideally, Ages should always pass through Writers/Maintainers...
Paradox: Dovahn > yes, I think that all user-Ages will pass through the GoMa

Question III.3: How does one qualify to be a member of the GoW?
Dovahn: Sign up?
Paradox: I was hoping to have a structure wsimilar to the one used by The New Tree
Craigmont: where do you get the gametap teashirts
Marein.: Par: What's that?
Dovahn: What's that, Paradox?
Paradox: You sign up, agree to an agreement that you will abide by the rules (and with the consequence of being banned if you don't)
Paradox: Then you're a member and can contribute to projects
Marein.: Yes, so no kinds of test or qualifications
Dovahn: That sounds fine.
Luetwo: ssems reasonable
Connor Mclyrr: ok
Paradox: However, I think that we will need an extra step in here somewhere because otherwise we could have the whole Uru universe signing up
Metaigahn: works for me
Dovahn: Now what if someone signs up and doesn't provide quality work?
GermanShepherd: I would go so far as to say that if nobody contributes to a project for a set amount of time, they can be... relieved...
Paradox: I don't like the idea of a "test"; but having something to prove that you can contribute might be a requirement
Dovahn: How could you prove that?
Marein.: Maybe the one and only rank that members can achieve within the Guild would be Writer, which they could do by actually showing work they did?
Paradox: (so a fanfiction story, a blender model, a texture, nothing complicated though...)
GermanShepherd: unless you want to shoot for the real D'ni GoW and have a training center :D
Marein.: And the non-Writer rank would be... Uhm... I dunno, something

Question III.4: What are the different skills that a GoW member could have?
Marein.: 3D modeling skills, programming skills
Paradox: Artist, Builder, Musician, Coder, Storyline
Luetwo: think we need a private way to communicate and leave messages for each other
Marein.: Music skills...
Dovahn: Ability to make 3D models.
SteveDenton: Concept artist?
Metaigahn: in general, everything above, but one can also be specialized in a team...
Marein.: Luetwo: That could be done with a private forum section
Dovahn: So artist could be anything from texturer to concept artist.
Paradox: Concept Artists to design Ages and make textures, Builders to build it in 3D, Muscicians to add sound, Coders to write Python, Stroyline to do... storyline
Paradox: And some post-process people to ensure that it all gets put together
Dovahn: I think there would need to be a specific "texture" job, because it is very broad.
Marein.: Of course some people could fullfill multiple roles
Paradox: As well, it might be nice to have a small team of testers who view the Age before the GoMa

Question III.5: How would we distinguish between beginners and experts?
Marein.: Do we need to?
GermanShepherd: you shouldn't... just look at their work :p
Paradox: Hopefully we wouldn't :P
SteveDenton: Exactly what I was going to ask.
Metaigahn: proof in the pudding...
SteveDenton: (Referenceing Marein's question)
Robert The Rebuilder: Let me clarify: if you're a newbie and you need help, how do you find who to ask?
loyholleran: iwont to be in this group be how
Paradox: Just post a question, someone will answer it
Marein.: You can do so on your own experience but as I said before there shouldn't be any ranks (except for, perhaps, actual writers and 'spectators')
Dovahn: But how do you know if it's a good answer or bad answer?
Marein.: If it isn't someone will correct it
Metaigahn: does the answer 'work'?....
Tai'lahr: Cause if it's bad, everyone else will jump in!
Paradox: Dovahn > You trust ;) (post count and previous answers could be useful here)
Connor Mclyrr: maybe talk to the person by slectiong them in age players
GermanShepherd: perhaps have some members apply for a... help status... where they DO have to pass a test to be qualifed as an expert builder
Dovahn: So "post count" could be an answer to the original question.

Question III.6: Would an age creation team need a leader? And what are the responsibilities of a team leader?
Paradox: This is a difficult one
Metaigahn: project admin
GermanShepherd: well... if it's someone's idea, sure... if it's a collective idea, then no...
Paradox: There needs to be a "Project organizer" to oversee each project
Dovahn: Yes. Someone needs to coordinate everyone else's work.
Marein.: If there would be a leader their job would be to collect all the work into one place, for one thing
Connor Mclyrr: depends on the project
Paradox: However, I don't like the idea of a "team leader" who is appointed
Dovahn: Why not?
Paradox: I'd rather see someone take the initiative by themselves
Paradox: or emerge based on experience and skill
Dovahn: But that doesn't prevent "powerhungry" people from just taking control.
Paradox: Dovahn > It should actually
SteveDenton: What if someone who'd expressed interest in the project was elected by other project members?

Question III.7: What would be the responsibilities of a governing council?
Paradox: Governing council?...
Marein.: To collect the finished Ages and make them publically available in a very user-friendly way, among other things
Paradox: There shouldn't be a "Guild Master" for the Guild of Writers
Dovahn: Why not?
Paradox: There could be a team that oversees the process
Marein.: No but there needs to be a little team or maybe even one person if that's possible that executes the final ctage of the ages
Dovahn: Those would be the "guild masters" I think.
Paradox: Dovahn > I'm looking at past events and what worked and didn't work
Robert The Rebuilder: Team - council : same kinda idea
Marein.: And keeps the public updated
Paradox: Dovahn > TNT was really open and they did some amazing work; AB was a bit more closed, and had some administration issues
Metaigahn: team that coordinated AGES and does admin for the GOW...
Dovahn: Okay.
Paradox: I'm also using info from the DRCLs and D'net to find out what should _never_ happen
Dovahn: Ah, the DRCL.
GermanShepherd: heh... plenty of examples of what not to do out there :D
Paradox: A team that oversees things and passes Ages along to the GoMa and to the public sounds like a good idea

Question III.8: Who would be elegible for being on the governing council?
Paradox: Ideally, one person from each "department"
Dovahn: By popular vote?
Paradox: (artists, builders, coders, musicians, storyline)
Paradox: I'm of the mind that voting will never keep people happy :P
Marein.: Yes
Marein.: Also
Marein.: That makes 5 ^^
Dovahn: Yeah, but what else. How should they be chosen?
Paradox: The important thing is to make sure that the "overseers" aren't locked into that position
Luetwo: those who haved worked on ages before
Paradox: and that they don't have power over the other members
Dovahn: A lot of people would have worked on ages.
Dovahn: How should the administrators be chosen?
Luetwo: but not everyone

Question III.9: How do we elect a governing council?
Dovahn: ...exactly
Connor Mclyrr: yeah
Dovahn: It has to be more definite than "whoever rises to power"
Paradox: uhm, I'd like to see it done by experience and commitment to the community
Dovahn: Yes, but how do you choose that?
Luetwo: well I would never want to be on governing council
Paradox: Luetwo > Neither would I
Luetwo: great worker bee, lousy leader
Dovahn: It's a great ideal, but how can you determine who has "commitment to the community"?
Marein.: Also, a huge load of people have that
Paradox: yeah
Connor Mclyrr: wlctionn mgiht help!
SteveDenton: Wouldn't it reveal itself naturally over time?
Dovahn: Yeah.
Dovahn: No! (sorry). Revealing naturaly leads to elitism.
Connor Mclyrr: election might help*
Paradox: I think that leaders will naturally emerge
Dovahn: Paradox, that can lead to elitism.
Paradox: true

IV. Inter-Guild Relationships: how GoW interacts with other guilds

Question IV.1: How much control over the availability of a new age would GoW members be willing to give to the Guild of Maintainers?
Dovahn: Which we definitely *don't* want.
Paradox: Very little
Dovahn: "Availability"?
Paradox: GoMa are there to test and report bugs; from what I've seen, most of them want to get control of the entire process
Robert The Rebuilder: C.larification: available to the general public
Luetwo: Think they should be able to use it before given to everyone and then make suggestions, not changes
Dovahn: Well, they should be able to debug. I think that's it.
Paradox: Ideally the GoW passes the Age to the GoMa; when the GoMa agrees that the Age is safe, the GoW releases it
Danny Cochran: may I please join your Bevin
Paradox: Danny > It's not a Bevin, it's a neighbourhood
Luetwo: isn't that their job- to ensure the safety og ages
Connor Mclyrr: drc does that too
Paradox: yes
GermanShepherd: the maintainer's guild doesn't release the age, they just approve it
Dovahn: Right.
Paradox: DRC likely won't be involved with the GoW Ages

Question IV.2: Who should the Guild of Maintainers contact if any issues were discovered in a new age?
GermanShepherd: project leader
Dovahn: THe project leader, I would imagine.
Paradox: Ideally there would be a ticket system
SteveDenton: I agree with the ticketing notion.
Dovahn: That seems somewhat impersonal, though.
Luetwo: or we could name several contacts each time we give them an age
SteveDenton: Not if a prompt and friendly response if given...
GermanShepherd: I say we need to encourage personal communication... make it less mechanical
SteveDenton: *is
Paradox: Ideally having the "Post-process" crew being notified would be nice; then they can pass it onto whoever needs to fix it
Connor Mclyrr: ticet cane be fun!
Dovahn: GS > I agree.
Danny Cochran: Bevin
Tai'lahr: But, the system is already in place, and it works right now, and many of those who use that system will be joining the GoMa.

Question IV.3: How would the GoW track issues found by the Guild of Maintainers?
GermanShepherd: that's where the ticket system would come in :p
Dovahn: Either the individuals keep track, or we use a ticket system as has been mentioned.
GermanShepherd: an internal ticket system
GermanShepherd: like mozilla bug tracker :D
Dovahn: Yes, I like "internal".
Metaigahn: agreed
Paradox: yeah, bug tracker, similar to the Uru Live support site
Paradox: or the Alcugs Trac (if anone uses that other than myself and robert)
Robert The Rebuilder: lol
Marein.: Never heard of it :D
Paradox: :P

Question IV.4: What services would the Guild of Messengers provide for the GoW?
Dovahn: Publicity?
Marein.: Yeah
Marein.: Getting out news and promos
Marein.: About new ages
Paradox: uhm... nothing? Possibly some publicity that "<AgeName> has been released by the GoW"
Dovahn: And publicising concept art and previews.
Connor Mclyrr: publicty newsletters!
Connor Mclyrr: mail
GermanShepherd: announcing ages, announcing discovered dangers ;)
Connor Mclyrr claps his hands
Paradox: The GoMsg will likely be more for relaying DRC events and news
Robert The Rebuilder: Announcing spoiler! No, wait...
Connor Mclyrr: yeah
Marein.: Par: Why would that be?
GermanShepherd: it would be neat if the Guilds were all closed about things and they only communicated via the Messengers

Question IV.5: What services would the Guild of Greeters provide for the GoW?
GermanShepherd: absolutely nothing :D
Marein.: Mmm...
GermanShepherd: >.>
Dovahn: Not much.
Paradox: not too much..
Marein.: Yeah not much I think
Connor Mclyrr: no anncouicng spoilers unleesss they ask for it!
tomw: Brb
Paradox: Maybe introducing people to the concept and telling them how to find us
Tai'lahr: Hey, I've already answered a few newbie questions during this meeting!
Marein.: Nothing at least until fan Ages go online
Marein.: Then they can help newbies in them
Connor Mclyrr: same here
Dovahn: Give tours, etc.

Question IV.6: What services would the Guild of Cartographers provide for the GoW?
Marein.: Make maps!
Paradox: Map Ages, give documentation about features
Dovahn: Make maps of the ages, of course!
Dovahn: :)
SteveDenton: Check for plot holes?
Paradox: The concept Artists might want to work with GoC for the maps to ensure that details are covered
GermanShepherd: project team would disclose everything to Cartographers, and they'd release things to the public
tnt: hi evry one!!
GermanShepherd: just... gotta make sure GoW doesn't try to do EVERYTHING, when there are other guilds that specialize in those things
SteveDenton: Modelers would have to work closely with GoC too.
Paradox: GS > Agreed

QUestion IV.7: Would there need to be subguilds of the Guild of Writers, or would these other guilds be fully self-sufficient?
Paradox: Sub-guilds makes it soundlike they are less importantr
Dovahn: Clarification please. What do youmean, these other guilds?
Paradox: I prefer to think of it as "departments"
GermanShepherd: the other guilds are there for a reason ;)
Marein.: More like departments
Marein.: Yeah what Par said
Dovahn: Well, departments, but it's the same as "sub guilds" just a different word.
Paradox: Although there is an exception: The "Guild of Ink Makers" (the tool developers)
Marein.: Better word
Robert The Rebuilder: Clarification: there's interest in a Guild of Artists. Would they be a subguild/department, or a full guild?
Luetwo: like departments better
Paradox: (as we've taken to calling ourselves)
GermanShepherd: it would be okay to make departments, I think, as long as they're not there to replace another sanctioned guild
SteveDenton: Departements make perfect sense, but it should be clear that they don't all have to be organizaed the same way.
Paradox: I think that the Guild of Artists could easily be its own Guild
SteveDenton: Or as a mini-guild, as sub-guild might imply.
Dovahn: Ah, I see. In other words, should the ideas for new guilds be created as part of the GoW.
GermanShepherd: guild of artists was more for paintings and stories, right? o.O
Marein.: Also in the old D'ni those guilds weren't sub-guilds
GermanShepherd: nothing to do with ages...
Marein.: So departments are better
Paradox: But some of the artists would likely also work with GoW for concept Art, and be part of the "Artists department"
Dovahn: I think, for example, guild of artists is not related to us. We would have a subsection that does art as well.
Metaigahn: i prefer "department" to refer to groups of specialists in the GOW
Marein.: Par: Exactly
GermanShepherd: people are only allowed to join one guild, though right?
Paradox: (I know that department and sub-guild mean the same thing, but "department" sounds like it's more included rather than being a "sub" guild, something less)
Dovahn: Would they be part of it, or would it be a separage "staff"

V. Home: requirements for the future official GoW site

Question V.1: What would you expect to find on a GoW web site?
Luetwo: list of ages being created
Dovahn: Forum, "coming soon", project pages (possibly)
GermanShepherd: for a non-member, not much
Connor Mclyrr: hey
Paradox: Forum definitely, likely a trac/issue tracker
Dovahn: For members, there would likely be a large back end system for bug tracking.
Metaigahn: links for tools, possibly
Marein.: And some teasers, coming soons, but not a page about every project
Paradox: Subversion, Wiki, Forum, Trac, FTP for departments/projects
Dovahn: Maybe for members, though.
Dovahn: What would the wiki be for?
Marein.: Maybe
Dovahn: FTP is good, though.
Connor Mclyrr: wiki is awosme
Paradox: For the public, a "coming soon" page, a detailed desription of what the Guild is/does
Marein.: Well that could be about the different projects
Paradox: How to join, etc
Marein.: (the wiki(
Marein.: )
Paradox: Mar > Wiki for tutorials and how to use the tool
Paradox: +s
Marein.: That too but info about every project and who's in it would be handy too

Question V.2: Should anyone be able to access the resources on a GoW site?
Dovahn: What "resources" do you mean?
Marein.: Define "resources"
Connor Mclyrr: beides bahros ues
Dovahn: Objects and textures?
Connor Mclyrr: yes*
Paradox: It depends on the projects
Robert The Rebuilder: Resources = all the things you just mentioned
Connor Mclyrr: members or new memebrs too
Paradox: Some specific project resources, no
Paradox: General textures and objects: yes
Robert The Rebuilder: anyone = members & nonmembers
Metaigahn: limited access to anything that might e copyrightable...
shouldn't have access to the Wiki
Connor Mclyrr: wiki is free and open to anyone
Paradox: So, anyone can go and grab the grass texture and the cone model; but only members can grab the Age logo texture and the project models
Marein.: Not if there's spoilers in there
Marein.: in the wiki that is
Luetwo: but I think there should be a way for them to make suggestions or leave ideas for the future, if they don't want to join us or doit themselves

Question V.3: How much file storage would a GoW server need?
Dovahn: Well, how big is an average age?
Paradox: It really depends; I'm thinking that an FTP for each project/Age
Marein.: Yeah?
Dovahn: (In filesize, I mean)
Paradox: When the Age is released, the FTP content is archived
Robert The Rebuilder: Take a peek in your dat folder: between 10 and 50 MB (including sounds)
Marein.: Mmm that's okay
Paradox: That's only PRP files
Paradox: not textures and models
Dovahn: Keep in mind that we would be working with uncompressed stuff.
Marein.: I wonder if our Ages will be bigger because of our inexperience
Paradox: Mar > no
Dovahn: Marein> Probably.
Dovahn: Oh, never mind... :)
Marein.: Heh
SteveDenton: Heh.
Connor Mclyrr: i'm fine

Question V.4: How much upload/download bandwith per day would a GoW server need?
Paradox: I'd say about 50 MB / project if possible
Luetwo: Marein
Marein.: Yes?
Paradox: A LOT
Luetwo: Paradox
Paradox: yeah?
Metaigahn: lots of server space, and lots of bandwidth....both
Connor Mclyrr: welll tons
Paradox: I'm thinking that an SVN server might be better than FTP in some ways
Dovahn: The more, the better. ;)
Paradox: SVN isn't quite as simple, but it works fairly well for projects like these

Question V.5: What kind of server administrator would the GoW server need: student, working professional, or dedicated web hosting admin?
Paradox: Dedicated web-hosting admin
Dovahn: But if one isn't available... What's the least we can do with?
Paradox: A server with lots of uptime; lots of space; and someone who knows what they're doing with regards to configuration
Paradox: Dovahn > If necessary, a computer sitting in someone's bedroom without a monitor :P
Dovahn: Par> THat might be tricky...

VI. Plans: short term and long term

Question VI.1: What could an unofficial GoW do without support by the DRC/Cyan?
Dovahn: Not much. We need to be able to publish ages.
Paradox: Build Ages, export Ages, play Ages in PotS
SteveDenton: Make CC ages and wait?
Marein.: Yes
Dovahn: That's the very least we need.
Paradox: We need even minimal support fro mCyan in order to put anything into MOUL
Marein.: How can we not get support from Cyan though if they invented the new Guild system?
Paradox: Marein > GD said that the guilds might be years in coming :\
Robert The Rebuilder: Marein - see GreyDragon's post
Marein.: Oh... :/

Question VI.2: Would anyone be willing to form an unofficial GoW (working only in Uru:Complete Chronicles, not MO:UL)?
Luetwo: Will Cyan want to make suggestions or changes to our ages
Marein.: Don't we have groups for that yet?
Paradox: In thoery, anything that works in PotS will also work in MOUL
Dovahn: If we can't get to MOUL, then yes, but if we can, why not?
Connor Mclyrr: until uru is dead
Connor Mclyrr: btu we can bring it bacl!
Paradox: Connor > UU is dead, it will stay that way forever
Metaigahn: yes...if not MOUL, then CC...
Marein.: What if MOUL fails Par? :D
Marein.: Who knows what might happen then
Dovahn: Knock on wood! :)
Marein.: Done
Paradox: So if a GoW was set up right now with CC/PotS; we could still build Ages, test them, and then export them for MOUL later
Robert The Rebuilder: Right
Metaigahn: sounds like a plan
Robert The Rebuilder: And we can even get GoMa in the action ,too
Marein.: But what about the Age Builders group that we have now?
Marein.: That still exists, right?
Paradox: Everything is mostly compatible between PotS and MOUL (in a very complicated way)
Robert The Rebuilder: It could transform into an unofficial GoW...
Connor Mclyrr: we could brignt some ages form uu cc on ehre!
Robert The Rebuilder: that would be a template for the official one (once Cyan allows it)
Paradox: Robert > That could be a good idea
Marein.: Connor: No, we can't touch Cyan's work

Question VI.3: What would need to be finalized before an unofficial GoW could be formed?
Paradox: Forums..
Dovahn: Well, having a home would be nice.
Dovahn: As Par said.
Robert The Rebuilder: What about a mission statement? Or a structure? Rules? Etc.
Paradox: right now we are in contact with multiple Age Creation groups and we are working to get a meeting palce set up with everything that was mentioned above (wiki, trac, SVN, etc)
Dovahn: What "multiple age creation groups"?
Paradox: A mission statement is good, and a basic structure could be determined
vid points
Marein.: Ah and then the other ones would be merged into the new one?
Marein.: vid... >.>
Paradox: Dovahn > Age Builders, Guild of Age Crafters, German H'uru, etc.
Paradox: vid > ...
Dovahn: Do we need to collaborate with those groups?
Dovahn: Before we get started, I mean?
Paradox: Yes, they will be part of the GoW, and I'd like to get their input

Question VI.4: At a minimum, what would Cyan need to provide us to incorporate ages into MO:UL?
Paradox: How do they organize their Ages?... I'd like to know if they have a system that works before we reinvent the wheel
Paradox: Robert > They'd have to add the Ages to the server
Marein.: A place where the books to our Ages can be found
Paradox: Cyan need to "provide" us with anything, they just need to be willing to add fan-Ages
Marein.: Or places even
Dovahn: And a virtual place to put them (e.g. the library)
Connor Mclyrr: popen them to the public in bevin lcoater
Paradox: Cyan need not*
or sound or persistant states (SDL), to make things easier?
Connor Mclyrr: or put them in books and then open them to the public in bevin!
Connor Mclyrr: both
Paradox: Persistant states are a pain; Python shouldn't be an issue
Robert The Rebuilder: How about ages appearing in a person's nexus?
Paradox: (SDL being a pain from the Age Builder end)
Connor Mclyrr: not sure
Marein.: Robert: What could work is if the Age must be found as a book but is then added to the Nexus by a pedstal, in stead of to Relto
Paradox: Robert > I'd rather see the city library filled up; or a guild hall or a place where you can actually see the book
Robert The Rebuilder: Paradox> Python could be an issue, regarding exposure of all the Python classes to the general public
Marein.: Except of course if the right Relto bookcase could be used...
An'Dru: What is going on here?
Robert The Rebuilder: But when we're testing an age, we don't want everyone to have access to it... yet. So, that's why the nexus or Relto seems best initially.
Luetwo: think the wrters book should be in writers guild a week before everyone else, maybe that would be their payoff
Marein.: Still, there would be too many Ages to put in a physical place. Nexus would be better although they shouldn't just pop up there
Paradox: Robert > The Python would undergo tests first
Robert The Rebuilder: It is also very easy to add an age to the nexus, as opposed to modifying an existing age and adding a book somewhere.
Marein.: True but that wouldn't be much fun ;)
Paradox: Robert > Adding to the Nexus seems like cheating somehow
Robert The Rebuilder: lol
An'Dru (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
Connor Mclyrr: not sure i have a hard time look to me age
Marein.: Also there should be an extra tab for fan Ags in the Nexus then
Dovahn: It wouldn't be good if our ages just became a massive digital list, though.
Paradox: Or a special "fan-Age Nexus"
Robert The Rebuilder: Paradox : kinda like Kireland the Watchers pub, eh?
Marein.: Par: Mmmm nice idea
Paradox: yeah, although those made sense kinda
Dovahn: Having actual books makes the work a bit more literal in payoff.
Robert The Rebuilder: They could appear in the private links section of the nexus
Marein.: Then that Nexus could have its own tabs to sort the Ages into categories
Dovahn: You know, we have "the descriptive book"
Paradox: I think it's a moot point discussing distribution at this stage though
Paradox: Cyan likely has their own ideas
Luetwo: i agree, little early
Dovahn: Yeah... XP
Robert The Rebuilder: Right - this definitely falls into the "long term" portion of this segment.
Metaigahn: true
Robert The Rebuilder: Well, that's all I had.
Robert The Rebuilder: Thanks to everyone who came!
Paradox: Thanks for hosting :)
Robert The Rebuilder: FOr those that came just after the beginning of the meeting, I do have a question for you:
Robert The Rebuilder: How would you rate your age creation experience on a 5-point scale? (where 1 = none, and 5 = contributed at least 50% to creation of a publicly available age)
Luetwo: which websote should one go to to ask for help creating an age
Robert The Rebuilder: [If you already answered this, just ignore this]
Connor Mclyrr: 1
SteveDenton: One with a capital O!
Marein.: 3
Robert The Rebuilder: Luetwo:
Dovahn: Luetwo> probably the home page of the GoW.
Dovahn: (eventually)
Marein.: (oops sorry Robert, I did answer it already)
Paradox: Luetwo > Right now the best place is
SteveDenton: I figured I'd better start figuring it all out now if I want to be ready by the time guilds really spring into action.

Link to raw chat log: here

KI #: 1299

Last edited by Robert The Rebuilder on Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:56 am 
Former MystOnline Moderator

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 1591
Mod note: This topic refers to a meeting which's planning stages were discussed in this topic (now closed). Please continue the discussion here. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:41 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 pm
Posts: 27
I had no idea this meeting was taking place, and I was out of town with no Internet access. Therefore I'm kicking in my 2 cents here.

If we are indeed going to create ages, the first thing that we need is technical specifications from the powers that be. The next thing that we need is a technical Wiki, and a historical Wiki as well, to keep story lines straight.

We don't need a rigid guild structure. What we need is information, and more information. Then we need a way to get folks together who have the correct skill sets--a writer, a builder, a programmer, a texturer, etc.

However, the main thing we need is to know what the heck we are supposed to be doing, and no amount of discussion will tell us that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:05 am 

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Tomahna
Yes, appologies for not being able to attend. It sounded like an interesting meeting.

Hopefully if there is a future meeting I can arrange my schedule better to attend. 8)


"The Ending has not yet been written" - Yeesha in Tomahna!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:24 am 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 174
NOTE: Edited to Relate Comments to Sections (as had been requested) - butterpaw

I'm sorry I was unable to attend, but am very interested in participating.
I'm not sure how this thread is being treated or what, exactly, might constitute a spoiler, so please excuse if the spoiler tags aren't actually necessary:

[spoiler]The music and sound in Cyan-produced ages have given me so much pleasure over the years, that I want to voice my interest and willingness to participate cooperatively as a composer, and also my hope that music and sound people of various sorts will be encouraged to participate too.

Re: III.4:
I specify composer, as I am no longer a performer, and of course there are also musicians who do not write music, but who play instruments (including voice - we have the example of the Kadish Gallery, and, for that matter, the Cavern Choir), who may also wish to participate, so that not all music need be electronically sampled or generated, thereby lending greater richness and variety to 'new -built' Ages

Additionally Foley artists also can enhance 'new-built' Ages with sound effects of all sorts, whether they are musicians or not, so please add them to the list of people who contribute to the writing/building of ages.

Re: IV.7
Chapter is another word that's sometimes used.. although may not be quite right either.. Division is another... now where's that thesaurus? ;-)

I am also a concept artist... and can do small 3d modeling tasks as well, and have been a member of the Puzzle Makers Guild (completed a course with Futo (Pa'trick) previous head of that guild) - I love variety in life :wink: [/spoiler]


Last edited by butterpaw on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:31 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:43 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 am
Posts: 123
Thanks for the chatlog, Robert. I appreciate it since I couldn't attend (and didn't get back home from my first two days of work until around 3 hours ago...figures they'd schedule me to work before I could move into my apartment...). I'll read all of it when I'm not so tired, but from the parts I skimmed, I like the general consensus presented.

KI # 03593691 (Samuel Churchill)

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