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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:08 pm 
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I could never make an age, so I think it would be nice for some to be able to show their creativity in little ways. Clothing, little items, hairstyles? I hate to say the dreaded word "Sims"...but it does allow for creativity on a lighter scale.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:01 am 
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I like that idea a lot. I think it would be wonderful to make a little something that I could share with people - not a whole big complicated age!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:07 pm 
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i'd use it
/me starts looking around Eder Delin for a D'ni"Sewing machine" relto page


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:19 pm 
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Skellington98 wrote:
i'd use it
/me starts looking around Eder Delin for a D'ni"Sewing machine" relto page


Already? :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:09 am 
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A couple weeks ago when the DRC town hall meeting with EricL from Gametap occured I remember several people raised that question, and from what I could gather GameTap and Cyan are open to various kind of 'explorer made' content, not only whole Ages.
Creating 'I hoped around all the City on one foot and all I got was this lousy shirt' clothes would certainly be cool. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:00 am 
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I definitely concur. However, rather than just allowing explorers to design endless amounts of t-shirts slogans (not that anyone implied that) I'd be more interested in a case where Cyan provided a tool for explorers to model clothing items and create designs (or perhaps just tell explorers what the requirements would be and allow explorers to make programs which allow people without technical knowledge to model on the fly to the proper specifications).

Those could then be submitted to Cyan for approval; in fact, Cyan could get volunteers to peer review the items to make sure they weren't overly flashy, or bizarre/unrealistic (or fulfill whatever requirements are deemed practical) and perhaps finally send the final few clothes items which made the "cut" (excuse the pun) for Cyan's explicit review, to reduce Cyan's workload. If such a system were set up dynamically, then explorers could be given access to multiple new clothing items every day, and over a period of months player appearance would become incredibly diverse, as diverse as it is in real life.

Of course, that would also reduce the impact of obtaining some new clothing item. Not that it should be an issue, but it probably would be, out of nostalgia if nothing else.

Aloys, on a related note, when you say that Cyan and GameTap "are open to various kind of 'explorer made' content, not only whole Ages" you don't mean to imply they ever stated they were open to explorer made Ages, right? Just want to clarify that wording. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:07 pm 
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They have clearly stated they are open to the idea of explorers created Ages, and plan to officially support this in the future (at least six months after Live's launch). :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Darker wrote:
I definitely concur. However, rather than just allowing explorers to design endless amounts of t-shirts slogans (not that anyone implied that) I'd be more interested in a case where Cyan provided a tool for explorers to model clothing items and create designs (or perhaps just tell explorers what the requirements would be and allow explorers to make programs which allow people without technical knowledge to model on the fly to the proper specifications).

Those could then be submitted to Cyan for approval; in fact, Cyan could get volunteers to peer review the items to make sure they weren't overly flashy, or bizarre/unrealistic (or fulfill whatever requirements are deemed practical) and perhaps finally send the final few clothes items which made the "cut" (excuse the pun) for Cyan's explicit review, to reduce Cyan's workload. If such a system were set up dynamically, then explorers could be given access to multiple new clothing items every day, and over a period of months player appearance would become incredibly diverse, as diverse as it is in real life.

Of course, that would also reduce the impact of obtaining some new clothing item. Not that it should be an issue, but it probably would be, out of nostalgia if nothing else.

Aloys, on a related note, when you say that Cyan and GameTap "are open to various kind of 'explorer made' content, not only whole Ages" you don't mean to imply they ever stated they were open to explorer made Ages, right? Just want to clarify that wording. :)


During that THM, I had suggested a way of having a "free market" take care of things like that. When an explorer saw someone with a player-created piece of clothing, it would be easy to upvote or downvote the clothing, or flag it as "not safe for work" (as the saying goes). Maybe you could press Ctrl and some buttons for up/down voting would appear on the clothing you were mousing over (it could be explained as a feature of the KI or something).

The end result would be that the community would end up rewarding really good designs by upvoting them, and ones which were poorly made would be downvoted. Ones with "inappropriate" patterns would be marked as such, and there could be a parental setting so that explorers could have bad clothing automatically replaced with a generic clothing -- or, there could be a stronger setting for clothing which wasn't offical or hadn't been marked as "safe" by a couple people wouldn't be seen.

I think that, considering Cyan's workload, leaving a somewhat loose framework for that kind of thing would be easier on Cyan, and would encourage more creativity by not being encumbered by a hierarchical review system that could slow things down too much.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:14 am 
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I just tried a new mmorpg recently, and I swear my favorite part was just creating the character. I deleted the game after realizing that, lol. I really like making my avatar as unique as possible, so it would be great if there were something like clothing making or something. At the very least there should be enough appearance options to make your character look somewhat unique at the beginning, and then be able to add on to it later on.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:14 am 
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Gadren wrote:
During that THM, I had suggested a way of having a "free market" take care of things like that. When an explorer saw someone with a player-created piece of clothing, it would be easy to upvote or downvote the clothing, or flag it as "not safe for work" (as the saying goes). Maybe you could press Ctrl and some buttons for up/down voting would appear on the clothing you were mousing over (it could be explained as a feature of the KI or something).

The end result would be that the community would end up rewarding really good designs by upvoting them, and ones which were poorly made would be downvoted. Ones with "inappropriate" patterns would be marked as such, and there could be a parental setting so that explorers could have bad clothing automatically replaced with a generic clothing -- or, there could be a stronger setting for clothing which wasn't offical or hadn't been marked as "safe" by a couple people wouldn't be seen.

I think that, considering Cyan's workload, leaving a somewhat loose framework for that kind of thing would be easier on Cyan, and would encourage more creativity by not being encumbered by a hierarchical review system that could slow things down too much.

Yes, that's not bad. A system based off that could definitely come to work. There are just a couple problems that it could encounter which would require another layer of approval.

1) If the players are allowed to wear what they want, then unless we limit the creativity of players by restricting what models and patterns are acceptable for constructing clothing, players could create clothing which isn't truly clothing but which isn't readily judgable, such as clothing with mimics a rock or creates a fake wall or a Sharper mask. 2) If the general population of players is a judge of what clothing should exist, then for instance, it may be that a large # of players think that a particular model looks cool, but that model is also out of character. 3) For posterity's sake I'll mention griefing but that won't really be a problem.

Some reasons I think that a heirarchy of review would work much better.

1) The opposite of the previous #1 (players can be as creative as they want to be). 2) The opposite of the previous #2 (Cyan can apply nonintuitive rules of judgment for clothing). 3) The hierarchy of explorer reviewal, and a limit to the # of unique items an explorer can submit per day, can be tweaked to narrow at will the amount of work Cyan needs to do as the final reviewer, not that 15 minutes a day at 15 sec/review wouldn't be more than adequate to permit vast amounts of clothing choice at an extremely quick pace. 4) Clothes that have been approved with a higher standard, rather than just existing in a state of not having been disapproved, are better fit for more "official" capacities, such as existing in the wardrobes of all explorers.

Gadren, it's wonderful that you're a liaison and you've also considered this stuff. I definitely feel more optimistic about the future of innovation in Uru Live.

I'd also like to mention, in case no one else had, that it'd be nice to employ a categorization system, with text labels and descriptions of clothing items, so that players could easily search for and sort through what could eventually become thousands of clothing items, which volunteer manager explorers (specifically, a hierarchy of reviewers could help to ensure that intial categorizations are accurate) could operate and reorganize (I assume that as different styles of clothing emerge, different and more practical forms of organization would become apparent; a committee of some sort would be best suited to handle these).

Edit: To clarify, my ideal is that there would come to be be so wide a choice of clothing that the clothing a player wears in the real world would exist and the player would be able to easily search or browse to find that clothing item.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:19 am 
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I do not know if this idea is feasable. It would be cool to create your own clothes, but the matter of regulating it is a nightmare. The ideas stated for review are quite complex and you have to have people to manualy review each item regardless of the method or process needed for approval.

The time and effort to impliment such things is even more complex then the process itself. An undertaking no other online game world (with any decent regulation) has yet attempted. I find it unlikely Cyan will try to be the first.

It is true there are other games where users can create custom cloths, such as Second Life. But, for the most part these worlds/games are unregulated and violation content is only removed once it is discovered. Such things cannot happen in Uru as the content must first be approved. Thousands upon thousands of clothing designs and/or other content would be submited for review. The task of review would be monumentous regardless of the method of review. Its just... easyer to not open the door and create a line that may go on forever then it is to just not open it at all.

And if users could create clothing... wouldn't that take the fun out of collecting Cyan's clothing thats cleverly hidden along the way? Isn't that one of the main purks of playing a game such as this?

If users gain too much freedom and control Cyan looses control and the game looses focus and warps into something like Second Life or There or any other free form VR world.

Another negative is if there is a peer review system put into place it will open up alot of squabling and headaches. No one likes to be told no, but we take it if its a higher athority such as Cyan. But if its our peers preventing us it becomes a matter of pride because eveyone believes they are right. Even if there are guide lines set by Cyan for the review to follow, there will be squables over differing interpetations of the guide lines.

Its just a large head-ache that I don't think Cyan would like to have. However, I do have fath in the request system to Cyan as well as possible contests for designing and submiting patterns or clothing articles.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:10 pm 
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I think Cyan's going to do more with contests, like the recent T-Shirt contest.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:28 pm 
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I don't think that clothing making has to neccessarily be that complicated. Cyan could responsible for all the clothing styles: jackets, T-shirts, hoodies, etc. , but maybe explorers could submit logos to the Powers that Be. If the design finds favor, then one might find the logo in his/her wardrobe someday. It could be applied to a T-Shirt or sweatshirt, depending on its size. One might be able to request a preferred placing.
(Front Middle Center, Rear Middle Center, or front offset for small logos)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:45 pm 
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The success that a lot of games have today is soley based on the fact that the games are extremely customizable. Uru should be the same, I think. Being able to show your individuality is essential when You-Are-You, don't you think? =)

I hope that in the future, Cyan will incorporate some kind of user created clothing options, whether we submit ideas to them to include, or we submit them to a community as a whole (There.com).

If not, people will probably find a way to do it outside of Cyan's control with third party mods/hacks as has been seen in many games.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:36 pm 
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If we are going to be able to make custom attire then there would need to be a system for exchange as in other on line worlds which brings up the uggly issue of rich vs poor and property ownership. I think that would be a huge distraction from the game and would put a real kink in the whole communial atmosphere that is being created. On the other hand if we all were bald and wore orange robes ic it would get old real fast!


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