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 Post subject: Designing the Descent
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:44 pm 
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I honestly have no idea if this is the best place for this... But that's why there are moderators I suppose.

In another thread JW Platt mentioned designing the Descent, the Journey to D'ni. And as far as I can tell no one has really tried to tackle it so far. (That I know of). So I figured I might take a stab at it. And I figure the best way to make this one of the most poignant Journey's yet is to combine D'ni's (both the people and the City's) Past and future. Keep in mind most of these ideas are my babies and if you don't like them feel free but also I am not trying to make you.

Part 1. The Shaft

My view on the Shaft is that I really REALLY don't want to run 3 miles (or even a mile) down a winding pathway... that is simply too nauseating for me. So my opinon is bring in the elevators. So you may be asking in IC "How would we get that? the DRC is broke and we explorers couldn't really afford to fund something to this scale." My stance Dr. Watson inspires the D'ni of Reeleeshan and the Guild of Engineers lead by Anna Ro'Jethhe, They construct the elevators and get the Shaft up to spec. At the bottom there is a small sleek imager that you can use to recieve a message from Dr. Watson and Anna about the importance of the Shaft and its sumbolism of what D'ni was and what the New D'ni seek to be.

Travelling further you come across a small natural cavern mentioned by Aitrus in his map, this place has acid spitting rock licking lizards phoshorescent plants and flowers, (maybe even some Fireflys fungus from D'ni) A small D'ni Building has been converted to the Jules Verne Institute for Ecology and Medicine and is the headquarters for the D'ni Zoological Society, and a research lab and triage/quarentine facility for the Guild of Healers. Traveling further down you find part of the tunnel is blocked off for safety reasons. A linking book sits to the side on a pedistal which links to Direbo!

Travelling to Direbo you speak with one of the Seers who then informs you that the Book on the pedistals here are to show of D'ni's past and all aspects of it. But a choice is also given, next to the linking Book to Todelmer is a Linking Book to the next part of the Decent, Travelling to Todelmer you speak with the Seer of Wisdom. (otherwise you would just continue through the Decent every section will have this choice)

At the end there is a linking book returning you to Decent.

Part 2. The Rest House.

At the Rest House I believe you would meet an outpost of Greeter (and Maintainers maybe not sure (possibly maybe an Old Maintainers outpost)) They would show the rules of conduct and what what acceptable in D'ni.

Blocked Path, Linking Book, Direbo, Taigira, Seer of Justice etc.

Part 3. The Pantry

I don't know about you but I can't see any better spot in the Cavern for an Outpost of the Guild of Caterers than here. The Caterers invite the weary travelers in to eat and put their feet up. and then...

Blocked Path, Linking Book, Direbo, Noloben, Seer of Kindness etc.

Part 4. The Lava Cavern.

Upon reaching the Lava Cavern you see there is no way across so you must use the Book

Link to Direbo

Link to Laki'ahn , speak to Seer of Courage

This part leads to a twist, you link back in but not saftely on the other side but on a spire sticking up from the lava, and your Relto Book isn't working, there is a linking book back but what are you going to do take a leap of faith? Be Corageous? or give up?

You leap, A Bahro appears and links you out, you appear in Direbo before the Four Seers

Final speech triumphant music and link to South Gate, and so ends the Journey to D'ni

Yes it could use some touch ups but it's an idea... What do you think?

Also check out this: http://uru.grey-skies.net/the-cleft-descent

It really finds a way to fit the Decent into the Storyline and make it much richer as a result.

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Last edited by jadawin12 on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:44 pm 
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great idea.
but i am not sure Decent and the Shaft are Cyan's and could not be changed by the fans but i may be wrong on this.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:14 am 
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That may (and most likely is) very well true. However that does not not mean we the fans cannot speculate and throw out ideas they may (or may not) be interested in. Such as the Jules Verne Institute, completely new and I like it, (others may disagree). I really don't think we should be afraid to offer things to Cyan, the worst that can happen is they say no. And on the other side of the coin the best that could happen is they say yes and you get a little piece of recognition... So any ideas anyone?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:40 am 
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We only have a general, if somewhat specific, idea of what will and won't be permitted. I think the shaft is more in the not permitted area.

However, that being said, with open source and fan created content as it stands now there is nothing to keep one from building the 3D models and writing the story. Whether it will be accepted or allowed on a 'MOUL' type server is a question.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:39 am 
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Im reasonably certain Noloben was never supposed to be an Age you could get to via the Great Shaft/ Descent journey. Noloben is a very special place, one we know almost nothing about and it's my belief, based on some educated guesses and some very interesting texture files, that Noloben is where the spiral within the Path of The Shell tree was supposed to/will eventually lead to.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:56 pm 
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MercAngel wrote:
great idea.
but i am not sure Decent and the Shaft are Cyan's and could not be changed by the fans but i may be wrong on this.


Everything about Myst Online or otherwise is all Cyan's. Descent and the Shaft were given to Ubisoft to use I believe and then those rights were given back to Cyan after a certain time. So it is all Cyan's so if they want to change it or by fans they can.


I also think it would be great. all the linking though might be a bit confusing for some. I know I would end up getting confused once or twice.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
We only have a general, if somewhat specific, idea of what will and won't be permitted. I think the shaft is more in the not permitted area.

However, that being said, with open source and fan created content as it stands now there is nothing to keep one from building the 3D models and writing the story. Whether it will be accepted or allowed on a 'MOUL' type server is a question.


Yeah I'm fairly positive the Shaft and Decent are 'no go' areas as well, but as I said above the worst that can happen is they say no. And while I'm useless with 3-D modeling if someone wished to help me I would greatly appreciate it.


Loshem wrote:
Im reasonably certain Noloben was never supposed to be an Age you could get to via the Great Shaft/ Descent journey. Noloben is a very special place, one we know almost nothing about and it's my belief, based on some educated guesses and some very interesting texture files, that Noloben is where the spiral within the Path of The Shell tree was supposed to/will eventually lead to.


I agree and I disagree with you. Firstly I agree that it is a special place, But evidence of the DRC getting access to it dates back to a note in Sharper's Office, and I doubt that the DRC travelled there by 'mystic' means, it just doesn't seem to be in their nature for the most part. Secondly I have no doubt that as you said the PotS Tree is connected to the Door in Noloben I have absolutely no doubt, but it may be that the Tree opens the door and from there leads to somewhere incredible.

Finally, if I don't include Noloben that would require the contruction of a new Age, (or a massive remake of Direbo) both of which would greatly delay this Journey (to some degree more than my own suggestions would). But don't let me discourage you, if you know better ways, Which you certainly may feel free to keep posting them)

NightAngel23 wrote:

Everything about Myst Online or otherwise is all Cyan's. Descent and the Shaft were given to Ubisoft to use I believe and then those rights were given back to Cyan after a certain time. So it is all Cyan's so if they want to change it or by fans they can.


I also think it would be great. all the linking though might be a bit confusing for some. I know I would end up getting confused once or twice.


I believe you are correct that it may have all reverted back to Cyan at this point which is part of why I'm setting this up to show what they could do with it. I do agree it is alot of linking but the old school games often had quite a bit of linking... But maybe there is a better way. Let's think about it folks...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:36 pm 
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I like your ideas, and I've always liked the idea of stringing together the entire descent.

I love the idea of taking down the volcano fences in the Cleft, letting players climb up to the rim of the volcano, then jump into the interior of it (from Myst V) and then go down through all the places we've seen along the Descent - the rest area, the Great Shaft, K'veer, the other cave areas - and finally ending up at some sort of entrance to the city.

That is - I'd love to see all those official existing pieces of the descent connected together into one enormous explorable space, with the parts in between them filled in - but this is something that needs to be Cyan-managed and Cyan-approved.

If we can get to Cavcon 5, and a Cyan staff is assigned to Uru, maybe they could organize a fan team to do this (and other projects like it) under Cyan Worlds supervision?

I can't see Cyan having the funds to do this all themselves, and I can't imagine them letting fans do it independently of Cyan supervision, but I can imagine a core group of Cyan designers supervising a fan dev team, to accomplish fan development of the game which lines up with Cyan's vision for what the game should be.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Well actually I highly doubt that any of the ages in myst 5 were intended to be released via the shaft, they were all just stuck their and hastily connected via the seer's storyline. They were never originally intended to be connected, Todelmer was one of the museum ages along with Negelian, and I would hate to see it just shoved into a nook in the shaft, both Laki and Noloben were listed on the DRC age list indicating that they would likely have just been added in the library, Tahgira was probably just whipped up for the game and may or may not have existed at all before hand.
I would love to see the shaft made, presuming that its not stepping on anyone's toes, but I hate the idea of continuing to stick together four random ages together just because Cyan did in a final act of desperation to get a game out, no offense to any of the good folks at cyan, I understand why it was necessary for them to do it but I don't see why we should.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:33 am 
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matthornb wrote:
I like your ideas, and I've always liked the idea of stringing together the entire descent.

I love the idea of taking down the volcano fences in the Cleft, letting players climb up to the rim of the volcano, then jump into the interior of it (from Myst V) and then go down through all the places we've seen along the Descent - the rest area, the Great Shaft, K'veer, the other cave areas - and finally ending up at some sort of entrance to the city.

That is - I'd love to see all those official existing pieces of the descent connected together into one enormous explorable space, with the parts in between them filled in


I hate to be a downer, and I could very well be wrong on this but I thinks it's just too big do be whole, according to Atirus map Descent is around 32 miles long, And most of those miles would be pretty boring, I mentioned above most of the breaks in the tedium as it were. At anyrate I don't think the server could handle a place lat was 32 miles long without breaking it up. And seeing as how the only load screens are during linking that's why I threw in the need to link to Direbo in the first place.


matthornb wrote:
- but this is something that needs to be Cyan-managed and Cyan-approved.


I don't necissarily suscribe that it needs to be Cyan managed (or completely Cyan approved)

matthornb wrote:
If we can get to Cavcon 5, and a Cyan staff is assigned to Uru, maybe they could organize a fan team to do this (and other projects like it) under Cyan Worlds supervision?

I can't see Cyan having the funds to do this all themselves, and I can't imagine them letting fans do it independently of Cyan supervision, but I can imagine a core group of Cyan designers supervising a fan dev team, to accomplish fan development of the game which lines up with Cyan's vision for what the game should be.


There are alot of ifs and maybes in that, although I do not completely disagree with you, But I would love to first show them that we can handle this rather than for us to wait for them to possibly if we are lucky have something bestowed upon us. I'd rather givve it to them as a big gift from us and they can either go, 'Aww thanks I know just where to put this' or 'Umm you really shouldn't have'. Then they could use that time and effort to focus on other things like those other Ages...


Jevasi wrote:
Well actually I highly doubt that any of the ages in myst 5 were intended to be released via the shaft, they were all just stuck their and hastily connected via the seer's storyline. .


Actually they were hastily connected through the Tablet storyline, but yes I understand what you are saying

Jevasi wrote:
They were never originally intended to be connected, Todelmer was one of the museum ages along with Negelian, and I would hate to see it just shoved into a nook in the shaft, both Laki and Noloben were listed on the DRC age list indicating that they would likely have just been added in the library, Tahgira was probably just whipped up for the game and may or may not have existed at all before hand.I would love to see the shaft made, presuming that its not stepping on anyone's toes, but I hate the idea of continuing to stick together four random ages together just because Cyan did in a final act of desperation to get a game out, no offense to any of the good folks at cyan, I understand why it was necessary for them to do it but I don't see why we should.


Well I could be really mistaken but I thought that that Seer storyline which is at least partly taken from Cyan (there is even concept art if you desire it dragged out), was rather well though out on my part. But it is appearent that some of us would not want to go to these Ages while travelling the Decent, or better yet would like a "choice" so it could very well be while there are linking Books to Direbo once you are there you are given a choice, a linking Book to one of the Four Ages or and alternate book returning you to the next part of the Decent... Oh and I don't see any reasons linking books can't be in multiple places at once for isn't, Gahreesen in one of Yeesha's Pillars but also in all of the Hoods as well. But these are just my thoughts. What are yours?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:26 am 
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Tahgira was originally intended for Eder Gira II / Beyond Gira, although, technically, Tahgira was the original name for the Age, and Eder Gira was originally just a test-age. =) (and even further before that, Eder Gira was originally The Cleft. (but that's ancient history))


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:32 pm 
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I'm adding this to the Descent: http://uru.grey-skies.net/the-cleft-descent

These thoughts belong to Tweek and are well thought out and these along with my own I think would add a layer of choice that is really non-existant in the game as it is now.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Well first to clear things up the seer's storyline was originally going to be combined with the tablet storyline, so that's why I brought that up. I realize that you understood what I was getting at but I felt the need explain my reason.
Now then my "thoughts"
Yes the seer's storyline was rather well thought and seemed interesting, however the ages of Myst 5 weren't intended to be part of it and were heavily changed to force them to fit into it. The story and layout of Noloben was made so different that Cyan actually tried to rename it and make it a different age, before the fans thought it looked a bit familiar. Todelmer was turned into yet another series of puzzles, not that I dislike puzzles but I prefer variation, rather than the dynamic environment that had first been planed. For that matter I would still love to see Negelian as the interactive environment that had been intended instead of a room with a portal.Really what I'm saying is that if the ages can be accessible in both locations without making them seem out of place in either than I'm fine with it. I just don't want to see interesting concepts wasted on setting for a track of puzzles, keep them as cool as they should be and you'll have my vote for this idea.
I would also like to apologize as looking backward my post seemed rather hostile, this was not my intention.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:33 pm 
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If The Descent To D'ni is made, I think it would be really fun to see the Crystal Cave that Aitrus's grandfather (Atrus?) was exploring and found Agates in. As I remember from The Book of Ti'Ana, it was access through one of the Nodes on the path between the Great Shaft and D'ni. Just finding you're way around in that maze of tunnels (possibly with the prize of discovering the lost linking book to Gamadet in the tunnels. I would love to see Atrus and Ti'Ana's well when the sunlight strikes the well cover at noon as described in the book. Heck, I would love to see ALL the previous ages from the Myst series be accessable through Uru in some form or another) and mapping them out could be an incredible challenge. It would be like running a maze.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Firstly appology accepted and I understand your passion.

Secondly the Ages I would say are the most difficult part for a number of reasons.

1. Like it or not these five Ages were tied together, and to me... to some degree it is difficult, and feels a bit wrong (at least to me.) to separate them. That isn't to say I can't see. Todelmer, and Laki'ahn having linking books in the City. I would love to see some evidence of DRC presence on them. Maybe they could make an appearence in the City first before they are connected to the Seer storyline and shaft... Direbo should stay in the Shaft and Noloben... Well that one is #2

2. Noloben... while it is difficult for to say no to putting a finished Age into MOULa. Now there are two problems that need to be addressed here.

a. Noloben is a Special place... I cannot deny this. To some extent it does feel like it should be stand alone... But due to the fact that we would then have to wait for Cyan to provide us an Age... that would greatly delay the Shaft schedual... (or at least the Journey)

b. Noloben looks wrong. This honestly is a smallish problem due to the fact that Myst V is a game while MOULa is 'real' so the game version of Noloben took artistic liberties so the Noloben brought into MOULa could be the real deal. This would require reworking which would also delay the schedule.

3. All of the Ages to some degree need to be reworked, (warning spoilers) All of the Ages' puzzles were dependent of the Slates to function, with the Tablet gone and the Slate (I would figure) non functional (plus they were essentially slave whips and who would want to use those?) So they would need either technological or Bahro/Yeesha Magic to function altering the Gameplay at least to some degree.

So the only choice I could see would be to at least temporarily put the Journey on the backburner. Have Todelmer show up in the museum, Laki'ahn show up in the Library, Tahgira could show up in Kirel, The Shaft could be opened and Direbo could still link the segments of the Shaft, but when you link in you find a Book leading to the next part of the shaft and an empty pedestal. And then finally when everything is ready you'll link into Direbo find a Seer there and the linking Books of Todelmer, Tahgira, (Siralehn or Noloben?), and Laki'ahn. Then the Journey can begin.

P.S. I mentioned Siralehn because if they were to replace Noloben with another Age for the Journey I think it should be called Siralehn because that to me is fitting... (Siralehn being the name they were considering changing Noloben to for Myst V before changing their minds)

So what do you think?

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Last edited by jadawin12 on Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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