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Please reveal spoiler to read the manual, if you intend to vote. Is the door run manual a good idea?
Poll ended at Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:31 am
Yes, I wish I had one of these ages ago! 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
It seems useful. 42%  42%  [ 8 ]
I don't need it. 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
Not good. Yeesha thinks you're damaging the mystery! 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
What's a door run? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 19
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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:04 pm 
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SmilingOne wrote:
Please bear in mind, I have completely used up the character limit for Ki mails. Improvements or ammendments that you recommend should consider this limitation. Thanks for your time and consideration :)


You could create a secondary avatar for storage, incoming has practically no limit.


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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:13 pm 
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I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of frustration. When you get 8 people together to do a garden run anymore, you are most likely getting people who have done garden runs a billion times with maybe one or two newbies mixed in. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to complete the gardens the same way you do and you will be pulling your hair out when your checklist isn't followed.

I witnessed an incident a week ago where a person was very bluntly called a "bad caller". Unsurprisingly they left the garden and didn't finish the run. If it's going to be fun for everyone, it should be a collaborative effort, and my opinion is that the caller should have last say.

Honestly, the best runs I've participated in weren't the runs with a person on every cloth and one on the door. I've done it several times with only myself and one other person. Three or four work very well because there are fewer egos involved and if you are trying to explain what needs to be done to a newbie there aren't as many people giving conflicting instructions. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Alien wrote:
Tai'lahr, while I do accept that everyone refers to the Guild Of Greeters site out of habit, it's not the best site out there, and if SmilingOne wants to write a better guide, I fully support that.
You're right, it's often out of habit, and now I have the Sleepers' site in my folder of Myst-Uru Resources bookmarks. :) But, in this particular case, you'd already given him the Sleepers' version, so I was really just providing an example of a walkthrough. If he'd actually been asking for help with the Eders, I would have given my answer more thought. :)

It would be a lot of work, but it would be so nice to see a hints & nudges guide written for the Eders.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:01 pm 
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I had a door run How To with my original Angelmyst.. I wrote it as it would show onchat screen, to give a visual to the new Explorer.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Nahhh... my feeling is that the variation in knowledge-- some people new, some people experienced, others in-between.... then things go wrong, and I'd have to say most door runs I've done end up about 70% of the time having issues and NOT being smooth... is what makes the door runs charming-- and essential.

It's a group of people having to react and work together to overcome issues... and that, at least for a little while, creates a bond among them. You become a 'team'. and not just a disparate group of individuals. New people get to chat with, and interact with experienced explorers, the issues with the door bring out people's personalities... and connections get made. MOST of the people on my buddies list, ended up there because we did a door-run together.

One door run I recently did, I think most of us were experienced explorers... but the door-lights weren't coming on; the caller had no way of knowing whether the cloths were being touched. SO we had to improvise solutions -- somebody suggested each person say 'aye' or 'done' after they touched the cloth. That was a bust...

Eventually we decided to all link out, leave the garden empty to see if that would 're-set' the door. Well.. a few people didn't wait for the garden to get empty before they went back in... the caller had to go in and usher them out... which, he told us via the Ki that everyone in the garden was now 'dead'.... jokes galore about not walking in blood as we linked back in.

And it worked. We got the door open, everyone got the wedge.

Perhaps I am alone in feeling this way.. but to ME this was hilarious fun!! I think if everyone is consulting a list, crossing every "T" and silently making every door run as smooth as possible, there'd be little spontaneity, and little interest in ever doing more than the necessary two.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Some people prefer to know beforehand how things are done.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Well, to be fair, it is more like "how things *can be* done" But a potted explanation is a good way to introduce someone new to what we are all doing.

It explains what the purpose of the "door run" is, which is a common question, and also what each person should be ready to do. To be honest, whenever I've been on a door run, it has always been assumed that those needing the doors have already worked out that they need help, and that the details of the puzzle are not secret. Given the number of cries of "door run" that are heard in the city, it's a bit difficult to keep the Garden age puzzles a secret.

I guess the question should be asked at the start of each run, if we are going to be rigorous. I've just never done it, or heard it done...

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:35 am 
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Indeed, I’ve never thought about that, but usually I just respond to a call-to-doors :)
I’d be especially careful if the chosen Garden is already occupied, and be ready to pick another one.

I’ve seen two Hoods named something like “Delin Run” and “Tsogahl Run”, it could probably be considered safe to spoil while in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:14 am 
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korovev wrote:
Perhaps a hint guide could be made with a markers game, structured like the UHS guides.

I think that's an excellent idea. The only problem I can forsee at this point, is where to place the markers in the ages, in order that the explorer understands every new marker will reveal more of the puzzles solution. Distancing them far enough apart whilst remaining obviously seqeuntial may address that issue.


Alien wrote:
I have seen a new player try to figure out Eder Tsogal all on their own, and even though lots of us were there, we were not allowed to spoil anything. The new player could not work it out without major hints, bordering on spoilers.

This is why I'm now thinking that without multiple approaches to offering help, some explorers may have these ages truely spoiled for them. The sense of achievement someone gets from completing an age/level is part of the overall experiece of video games in general.


Segatendo wrote:
I did this puzzle with only two other people. :3
As it was our first time there, we were all puzzled by what was going on at first, though we figured it out in the end by ourselves.

Quite often new explorers will find themselves there all alone. Having others with you certainly increases your chances of at least discovering the solution, if not opening the door.


Segatendo wrote:
I love/hate guides. I love them because it tells me what to do if I'm stuck, but hate because I didn't figure out the puzzle by myself in the end, and sometimes it can be a go-to source for laziness if I don't want to spend too long on something. :P

Whilst I share the same sentiment to some degree, I also recognise the value of walkthroughs and hints. I have played video games for almost 40 years and in that time I have played a wide variety. The level of complexity of many modern games is truely astounding. Whilst this increases the appeal, sense of accomplishment and even skills of the player, there are times when enjoyment of the game can rapidly decrease due to difficulty beyond the players means to control or fathom, at the time.

As storyline is an important part of game playing for me, I can begin to lose interest if a stage is too demanding and causes me to repeat it excessively. This is of course dependent on my current patience threshold. Having said that, most times I will avoid using walkthroughs or hints because like many others, I would prefer to complete the challenge myself.


tommyap wrote:
You could create a secondary avatar for storage, incoming has practically no limit.

I apologise, if I wasn't very clear about this. I wasn't referring to the amount of mail that can be stored in the KI. I was meaning the number of characters that can be written in the journal.


Deck 15 wrote:
...It's unrealistic to expect everyone to complete the gardens the same way you do...

If you read more of the thread you'll see I addressed this point in a later post here:
SmilingOne wrote:
I don't know how it's coming accross. I don't mean it to be the only way to do it...



Deck 15 wrote:
I witnessed an incident a week ago where a person was very bluntly called a "bad caller". Unsurprisingly they left the garden and didn't finish the run....

Actually that was me. Although, I think your memory of it is somewhat jaded. Firstly, after a somewhat frustrating start to the door run (from my perspective, at that moment) and a comment from me about how it was long winded, I was asked a blunt question: "Do you think I'm a bad caller". I gave a rather blunt and biased answer: "Yes". My bias existed mostly due to the fact that almost every door run I've been involved in since playing MOULa has been along the lines of my guide. I didn't invent this method, it's simply the one I've become acustomed to and IMO one of the top two for efficiancy.

Secondly, you didn't see the private message I sent to the caller after they left. It was something along the lines of: "Why did you leave? Nobody wanted you to go!" I won't reveal what the caller replied with, other than to say that I agreed with their assertion that I had become accustomed to one style of calling. Which was, in part, one of the reasons for this thread and especially the poll it contains.


Deck 15 wrote:
If it's going to be fun for everyone, it should be a collaborative effort, and my opinion is that the caller should have last say.

If you again read through the thread past my initial post you will see I had already considered this:
SmilingOne wrote:
...Ulitimately the whole process is callers discretion.



Deck 15 wrote:
...if you are trying to explain what needs to be done to a newbie there aren't as many people giving conflicting instructions. :?

That was one of my other reasons for this thread. and the walkthrough/guide.


I'd just like to take this moment to thank everyone that has responded to this thread. I appreciate all the different points of view :)

I'm now very heavily leaning towards doing multiple versions of the walkthrough/checklist (there are 3, I'm aware of so far), also a marker game for hints and something akin to hints but in a poetic style. Don't expect me to be much good at the latter but I'm willing to give it a go.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:42 am 
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Thank you Smiling, for putting the work in. Aside from the results of your efforts now we all are aware, thanks to the people posting, of a number of different sources of information we can go to or point newcomers to.

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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:08 pm 
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So I must say since this is an old thread my response may not be seen but I will say that it was nice to be able to find this and have my suspicions confirmed as to how to accomplish this puzzle. I ended up in there by myself and figured out how to solve it and tried to run around and do it solo. *doh* I was streaming at the time too so it made it oh so much fun. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Door Run Manual
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Shorah and welcome to the MOUL forum, Skinner.

Skinner wrote:
since this is an old thread my response may not be seen
Posting to the thread bumps it up to the top of the list, so everyone can see it has a new post.

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