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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:49 pm 
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Unfortunately, we've been having a large proliferation of threads that give out blatant spoilers for the pod ages... Ones that were unfortunately the result of complete brute force. I hope to provide a set of hints to people who do not understand their nature, which will send people through the RIGHT way of solving this puzzle: the way it was intended.

First of all, there is something you must know: your goal.

WARNING: Spoiler about the nature of the pod ages within! This guide was written primarily for those who know this goal and would like to figure out how to attain it themselves, but are stuck.

[spoiler]The goal is to go through the "portal" to the bahro cave. The portal looks like this:

Image[/spoiler]

Now to the solution, determining how to get to your goal.

First of all, you must understand some things about how it works.

Start in Payiferen. What do you see there that might be of use?

WARNING: The following may in some places assume basic knowledge of D'ni numbers. If you do not understand them, figure that out first.

[spoiler]Do you see the pads on the floor?

[spoiler]You may need to go during the morning.

[spoiler]In the morning, you can see beams of light shining through the cracks in the window. What might that mean?

WARNING: Partial solution for Payiferen within this spoiler!

[spoiler]Specifically, when the lights through the cracks shines on the pads on the floor, the portal appears.

However, you may need to know when that is. How long is the day in Payiferen? No need to measure it. There's a handy reference somewhere...

[spoiler]In the museum, there is a map. What is it of?

Image

[spoiler]The map is a map of the planet where all the pods are located. What feature of the map might be of use?

[spoiler]The red lines on the map denote time zones. But how long is each time zone? Find a neighborhood with a clock for clues.

WARNING: Full solution to day length within!

[spoiler]Each line denotes a Partavotee. The map implies there are thirteen time zones, so the Pod Age day is 13 Partavotee long. Or about 15 hours 43 minutes.[/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

Before you read on, you should know how and when the portal appears in Payiferen.

[spoiler]You now want to know how to figure out the portal time in the other pods. Where could you calculate this from?

[spoiler]The map (which you should have seen if you've been following this all the way through) is of help again. It's in the museum, or reproduced here:

Image

[spoiler]You need to know where you are and where the other pods are on the map, though.

[spoiler]Where have you seen something that could be of help?

WARNING: Full solution to location within!

[spoiler]The numbers of the red circles on the map correspond to the numbers on the ceiling and floor of the pod.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Now you know where you are, you need to put everything together. There's not a lot I can do here, so the following spoiler is a complete solution:

[spoiler]Knowing that each red line is a time zone, and knowing the length of the time zone, you can figure out that Dereno is half a partavotee behind the Payiferen Time, and Negilahn is 1.5 partavotee behind. Tetsonot is 2.5 partavotee ahead.[/spoiler]

[/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

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Last edited by Maratanos on Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Yeah! Good work Maratanos!

[spoiler=A comment about the offsets]
The offsets are exactly 0.5 and 1.5. I compared a lot of gate events and calculated an average offset that is slightly larger or smaller than the even values.
Also the server clocks aren't perfectly synced. I suggest that you'll add a tolerance of 7 minutes to be on the safe side.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=A comment about the pamphlet]
The pamphlet isn't accurate. Especially the value for prorahn is wrongof by nearly 10%.
[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Thanks Maratanos! Very good guide. I don't understand why people are still using the calculators, it's much more fun to figure it out yourself. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:05 pm 
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As I have said before, your definitions of "brute force" and "how the puzzle was intended to be solved" are not convincing.

(This is not a critique of your hint guide, which is nice.)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Actually, let me expand on what I just said.

There is nothing wrong with approaching the pods (or, indeed, all of Uru) as a solo exploration experience. But there is also nothing wrong with approaching it as communal experience.

I regard the pods as puzzle with two solutions -- two *successful* solutions, which is not as simple a matter as implementing two ways to open a door.

A puzzle solution is a failure if people feel angry, frustrated, cheated, or bored when they make it through. (Or if they never solve it at all -- but that's not the case here.) When Negilahn came out, I didn't see that. I saw the excitement of discovery and cooperation.

A hint guide for the solo player is great. But I feel like you're trying to spoil that excitement, retroactively, by convincing people that they *should have felt* angry or bored or cheated. When you title this thread "Do it right", you're telling a lot of people that they did it wrong. That's either pointless (if they don't believe you) or hurtful (if they do).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:27 pm 
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It's so much better to solve the puzzle that way. I also think the brute force maths sort of spoiled it, but we can't stop people from figuring it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:01 pm 
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Is it confirmed that the name of this planet is Zik?
I had thought "Zik" means "pod" in D'ni...If not, I don't understand why on the upper right corner of the map there is a small pod illustration with the word.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:45 pm 
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I love how you're "hint" guide starts off with a big fat spoiler. :wink: I think what's in the first spoiler tags need only be the first sentence (and even that is stretching it). People will be able to tell that that's it.

Plus, you'd spoil the fact that
[spoiler]the portals appear in different sections of the pod in different places, were they to do Payiferen or Negilahn first.[/spoiler]
But other than that, good job. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:56 pm 
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The problem, of course, being that we didn't get the map until a bit before Payiferen came out, and what were we supposed to do before that -- sit on our hands and say "we haven't been given enough clues to solve this, oh, well"? "Brute force and math" was the only means available until then -- and in fact, one of the things I'm proudest of for the explorers was watching the scientific process in action. Multiple observations taken at multiple points and times, cross-checked; hypotheses suggested, their predictions tested, discarded; one hypothesis emerging strongly enough to approach the status of theory. It worked so well that the existence of a single age connecting the pods was deduced before the map actually appeared!

Now that we have the map it's solvable as a classic puzzle. I just get a bit annoyed at the sniffing over "brute force" used before all the pieces were available.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:14 pm 
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The mini-rant at the top of this was NOT intended as a slam in any way on the people who tired for quite some time brute-forcing the puzzle.

It was more of a rant against those who I have met in cavern who believed brute force was the ONLY way, and furthermore believed this false fact was all the reason they needed to spoil the general public.

It's just not true anymore. If it ever was.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:23 pm 
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"It was more of a rant against those who I have met in cavern who believed brute force was the ONLY way, and furthermore believed this false fact was all the reason they needed to spoil the general public."

I still think "brute force" is a falsely negative label; what happened was neither mindless nor forceful.

But I agree with your basic point. We should regard it as a puzzle which is new to newcomers, and let each player decide whether to ask for help.

And while I think the "communal solution" was legitimate, it's *not* how most new players (from now on) will approach the game. It was something that happened among a particular community at a particular time. I can imagine a new group of players recreating it independently -- but it makes more sense to assume that everybody who's new is going to come in through the approach you describe here.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:27 pm 
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belford wrote:
but it makes more sense to assume that everybody who's new is going to come in through the approach you describe here.


Or they'll be browsing the forums, see 4001 ads for "Pod Portal Predictors" and skip the puzzle process entirely... :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Rils wrote:
belford wrote:
but it makes more sense to assume that everybody who's new is going to come in through the approach you describe here.


Or they'll be browsing the forums, see 4001 ads for "Pod Portal Predictors" and skip the puzzle process entirely... :wink:


hence

Quote:
Unfortunately, we've been having a large proliferation of threads that give out blatant spoilers for the pod ages...


But you're right. And then some of them will complain about how the pods aren't real puzzles because of XYZ reason that misses the point entirely. I should know. I've seen it happen. Multiple times.


belford wrote:
"It was more of a rant against those who I have met in cavern who believed brute force was the ONLY way, and furthermore believed this false fact was all the reason they needed to spoil the general public."

I still think "brute force" is a falsely negative label; what happened was neither mindless nor forceful.

But I agree with your basic point. We should regard it as a puzzle which is new to newcomers, and let each player decide whether to ask for help.

And while I think the "communal solution" was legitimate, it's *not* how most new players (from now on) will approach the game. It was something that happened among a particular community at a particular time. I can imagine a new group of players recreating it independently -- but it makes more sense to assume that everybody who's new is going to come in through the approach you describe here.


I don't view brute force as a negative label. It's not necessarily bad, it's just bad that the results of the brute-force method are perpetuating wildly when it's no longer necessary nor a good idea anymore.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Actually, I have to applaud Cyan for creating a puzzle that can be solved both ways. I'm extremely impressed watching the puzzle, clues and solutions unfold over the last couple months, as well as the novel interpretations and theories that developed over time.

Yet, Cyan was able to tie all of that into a complete package that will allow new explorers, years from now, to be able to discover the solution for themselves without the thousands of minds chewing it over for months.

Brilliantly executed Cyan!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:55 pm 
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Calmiche wrote:
Actually, I have to applaud Cyan for creating a puzzle that can be solved both ways. I'm extremely impressed watching the puzzle, clues and solutions unfold over the last couple months, as well as the novel interpretations and theories that developed over time.

Yet, Cyan was able to tie all of that into a complete package that will allow new explorers, years from now, to be able to discover the solution for themselves without the thousands of minds chewing it over for months.

Brilliantly executed Cyan!


It could have been better.

The problem is that SINCE the brute-force method was executed first, now that the new method has broken, it's not widely accepted. Hence people do not recognize the validity of the puzzle and think they are entitled to spoil people because nobody wants to wait around 16 hours for a portal, and because nobody can complete it by themselves.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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